Cuphead Reignites the “Game Journalists Should Be Good at Games” Debate

[Deleted]

I think they should be "competent".

It is, after all, part of their job to be able to play (part of) a game and then write about it in detail. That's not possible if one can't even follow on-screen instructions in the tutorial to execute a core (and generic) mechanic like a jump-dash.

I'm not expecting a journo to finish games on the hardest settings, but I do expect them to be able to complete the tutorial faster than a 4 year old or faster than a pigeon can complete an intelligence test:

[Faroth]

What I think is hilarious is how everything with even a modicum of difficulty is called/compared to Dark Souls.

I've started making the joke on Twitter questioning which Dark Souls is the Battletoads of Dark Souls. You can also substitute Silver Surfer for Battletoads.

I'd also substitute a space shooter from NES, but I can't remember the name. I only remember watching someone play through it with a cheat code for invincibility to show the entirety of the final level and it's hard to imagine how someone can possibly get through it without the cheat code.

[unholytestament]

Man, watching the video again I think Takahashi needs to play through the whole game and a drinking game needs to be made out of it.

Every time he turns around and starts shooting at enemies that are only spawning because he's turning around, take a shot.
Every time he crouches instead of jumping over an enemy, take a shot.
Every time he meets a new enemy and immediately plows into it, take a shot.
When he just stops and runs back in forth in place for no reason which allows to respawn around him, take a shot equal to the number of times the enemies respawn.
Every time he turns around and runs away from a projectile instead of jumping over it, ducking under it, etc. but still gets hit by it, take two shots.
When he finally remembers that he can dash, take three shots.
When he successfully pulls of the parry ability, finish the bottle.

[zealo]

Again, do we really need this level of hand-holding in every game? Is there no more room for players to take the basic mechanics they've learned and put them together to learn slightly (only very slightly) more "advanced" mechanics?

It's completely unnecessary, and absolutely insulting to the intelligence of the player if the developer doesn't think that they're capable of such basic critical thinking an problem solving. This isn't Super Meatboy or I Don't Want to be the Guy or some super hardcore platformer making huge demands in terms of precision execution, this is basic shit.



...this isn't a puzzle, dude. This is literally "Take the two things you just learned, movement and jumping, and add in a third thing!"

It's the most basic and fundamental of critical thinking.



Should there be a tutorial on how to press buttons? What every enemy looks like and how to deal with them before you encounter them in-game? A tutorial for turning the game on/off?

I mean, how dumb should the developer assume their players are when designing games?

Even if it was something like super meat boy, it's also worth noting even that game goes pretty easy on the player throughout the early parts and ramps up gradually.



This is the first level in the game that introduces the saw blades to the player, and there's a whole 5 levels of opportunity to just experiment with controls prior to this.

[Edge-]

This is the first level in the game that introduces the saw blades to the player, and there's a whole 5 levels of opportunity to just experiment with controls prior to this.

Ye, I was more referencing it given Dean's mistake in saying it was those folks who were making Cuphead. SMB actually does a pretty fantastic job of giving players ample opportunity to learn mechanics before they start throwing more difficult levels their way, you're absolutely correct on that.

[solinari6]

Even if it was something like super meat boy, it's also worth noting even that game goes pretty easy on the player throughout the early parts and ramps up gradually.
This is the first level in the game that introduces the saw blades to the player, and there's a whole 5 levels of opportunity to just experiment with controls prior to this.

And that's really how things should be done. As a game designer, you don't want to frustrate the player right out of the gate. You want the player to get at least partially invested in the game before you really start throwing tough challenges at them. Otherwise you are going to lose a lot of your audience.

[urasim]

I dislike TotalBiscuit but agree with his method. He is upfront about being trash at some games/genres and when he personally dislikes them, trying to be as objective as humanly possible. I think reviewers don't need to be good at games but could follow his example.

I like him as a person when he's not pressured by his SJW friends into silencing others. He's mostly bad at all games he plays. Watching him play a game he loves, like xcom, is brutal.

He may appeal to those that are his, or lower, skill level. I like his reviews for other reasons and consider him a good orator and quite intelligent.

[Deleted]

So, yeah, Dean wrote the "Mass Defect" review 10 years ago and then later apologized for the same review because he didn't knew he had to use the talent points to level up his character.

Ten years after, he can't even do a simple airdash. Seriously, why is this guy still doing articles about games and gaming industry if he can't learn with his own mistakes?

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/syst...e-ma-26137357/

PS: And his XCOM2 review... https://venturebeat.com/2016/03/04/t...-its-too-hard/

He is a complete game illiterature and refuses to learn with the mistakes.

[unholytestament]

PS: And his XCOM2 review... https://venturebeat.com/2016/03/04/t...-its-too-hard/

He is a complete game illiterature and refuses to learn with the mistakes.

Motherfucker doesn't understand what a niche audience is and what a huge success the new X-Com games are. Enemy Unknown was literally thrown together to deflect the backlash they were getting for that AWFUL AS FUCK FPS version they were making, they just happened to have the foresight (or luck) to give it to competent developers that managed to make a quality new entry in a game genre that is currently starving.

[RobertoCarlos]

How come food critics need to know what they are talking about but video games doesn't? That was unbearable to watch. He should never review a game again just like someone who thinks mac and cheese is the pinnicle of culinary arts

[Arrashi]

People like him would complain that higurashi is too hard to them. And they probably would somehow menage to struggle with it.

[solinari6]

How come food critics need to know what they are talking about but video games doesn't? That was unbearable to watch. He should never review a game again just like someone who thinks mac and cheese is the pinnicle of culinary arts

Actually there are a lot of different kinds of food critics. Some who have gone to school to be professional chefs, and some who just make videos about burritos they get from taco bell. Thing is, there's an audience for ALL that. If you are super food snob, you probably wouldn't get much from the taco bell guy, but if your favorite food is mac & cheese, the things the professional chef recommends probably won't be to your taste.

[dope_danny]

Actually there are a lot of different kinds of food critics. Some who have gone to school to be professional chefs, and some who just make videos about burritos they get from taco bell.

Not everybody can be held to dan ryckerts level

[RobertoCarlos]

Actually there are a lot of different kinds of food critics. Some who have gone to school to be professional chefs, and some who just make videos about burritos they get from taco bell. Thing is, there's an audience for ALL that. If you are super food snob, you probably wouldn't get much from the taco bell guy, but if your favorite food is mac & cheese, the things the professional chef recommends probably won't be to your taste.

Right but whos going to be interested in a guy that cant even boil an egg but throws out his opinion anyway like this game "reviewer" that can barely get past the tutorial. If they are open and upfront about it its not so bad but if people knew he was that bad they may think differently about his opinion. But of course How many of his "reviews" will showcase his ability? None? So its just another clickbait pos that should be boycotted.

If he was in any industry with standards he would be unemployed within 2 weeks. But I guess thats why hes a blogger /shrug

[Deleted]

'Good' is a stretch, but its plenty suspect when someone who clearly can not figure out how to handle the core mechanics of a genre (let alone a title) is supposed to critique it.. but it's moot anyway. Old gaming journo media is in it's long protracted death throes, soon it will all be singular enthusiasts on youtube or insertfutureplatformhere you turn to for actual 'educated opinions'.

[solinari6]

Well I'm going to just fundamentally disagree that you have to be good at video games to review them. I got value out of that video (which wasn't a review or even a preview, btw). I've been playing games since the Atari 2600, and getting older is seriously starting to make me worse and worse at games. I don't have the patience I used to, and get frustrated REALLY quickly, especially at cheap-shot kills. I usually play games on the easiest difficulty possible. So that video tells me "Stay the hell away from CupHead!"

[Jastall]

PS: And his XCOM2 review... https://venturebeat.com/2016/03/04/t...-its-too-hard/

He is a complete game illiterate and refuses to learn with the mistakes.

Dear lord but that was painful to read. Why the hell is he attacking the ADVENT Forge with only 4 soldiers? Why is he activating all the pods at once? He probably doesn't even know about the Guerrilla Tactics School anyway, if his experience with ME1 is any indication the guy just doesn't even try to look for anything beyond the obvious.

I'm a decent XCOM player, albeit by no means an expert, and I picked up these concepts easily enough. Also, playing on Rookie which he obviously should have been, XCOM 2 is really not hard, especially before patches when the Mimic Beacon was completely overpowered. I'd have loved to see this guy try to handle an Ironman game with War of the Chosen and especially Alien Rulers.

The guy is clearly just outright bad at video games and shouldn't be reviewing shit. He literally is a food critic who doesn't know how to cook pasta, or a car critic who doesn't have his full license yet.

[Ausr]

So, yeah, Dean wrote the "Mass Defect" review 10 years ago and then later apologized for the same review because he didn't knew he had to use the talent points to level up his character.

Ten years after, he can't even do a simple airdash. Seriously, why is this guy still doing articles about games and gaming industry if he can't learn with his own mistakes?

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/syst...e-ma-26137357/

PS: And his XCOM2 review... https://venturebeat.com/2016/03/04/t...-its-too-hard/

He is a complete game illiterature and refuses to learn with the mistakes.

So he's the Darksydephil of game reviewers?

[Pony Soldier]

I agree totally. I mean if you're going into the video game business at least know your fucking shit. Some of them are like "well I played Mario when I was a kid 30 years ago". That doesn't mean shit. My dad played Mario when he was younger too and my mom played Pac-Man when she was young. Does that give them enough credit to be a game journalist? It just pisses me off how the game industry is filled with these people. People who know next to nothing about video games other than what is fed to them which they probably forget about the next day.

As for the reviewers I also agree that they should have some understanding of how games are played. The one Cuphead gameplay video I seen that probably sparked this debate was maddening to watch. It actually irritated the fuck outta me seeing how bad he was. It was like they took my mom and had her play the game. It was horrible. People want to see how the game is played they don't want to waste their time watching some guy having difficulties learning how to play when he should already have a decent understanding of it. It's a reasonable expectation to have someone who is competent enough to play the game well and not look like you're some 5 year old playing.

Ugh, it's just so annoying to me as a passionate gamer because I just look at the game industry and all I see are a bunch of businessmen and people who are only there to make money nothing else. I hardly ever see a developer or a publisher who is genuinely passionate about the field he is in. It's mostly just some corporate douchebag in a suit who couldn't give a rats ass about video games. He's only there because he knows it a field where it's easy as fuck to make money.

[Post]

Well I'm going to just fundamentally disagree that you have to be good at video games to review them. I got value out of that video (which wasn't a review or even a preview, btw). I've been playing games since the Atari 2600, and getting older is seriously starting to make me worse and worse at games. I don't have the patience I used to, and get frustrated REALLY quickly, especially at cheap-shot kills. I usually play games on the easiest difficulty possible. So that video tells me "Stay the hell away from CupHead!"

So you're basically the exact same as the guy who is playing it in the vid. I mean I guess the video is good for people like him.