EU Tries to fine Poland $75 Mil. Poland sends Germany $1Trillion bill for WWII

[Ravenblade]

They have plenty to do with each other given how PiS magically remembered that the issue with reparations from East Germany may be legally unresolved only after EU started to put more pressure and became more antagonistic in it's language.

Of course they have both to do with eachother in the sense that it's more of a revenge act but legally they are two different issues. The refugee policy cannot be bound to whether Germany agrees to a settlement or not. If Poland is willing to sit this reparation issue out together with all the other EU countries demanding reparations... This is going to be a major clusterf*** though considering the DDR paid almost 100bn. DM until 1953 as reparations making up more than 97% of the total reparation demands levelled against Germany, every single person living there had bear 130 times of the normal burden just to be able to repay it. Poland was among the recipients and they relinquished further demands - possibly at the behest of the Sovietunion - but in return the DDR eventually fixated the official Eastern border of Germany against resistance of West Germany which until 1991 did not recognize it but they accepted it. Notwithstanding further demands levelled against Poland by people like Erika Steinbach (who should really be friends with the current Polish govt. seeing they almost 100% in agreement on every single political and social issue these days - as opposed to back then when she was probably the most hated German in Poland).

Also who became antagonistic first is going to be a chicken-egg-question, the EU is usually mocked as toothless by anyone, when it tries to show its milk teeth everyone is like "OMG the EU is Worst Rouge EU!".

[Acidbaron]

actually, no. migrants are supposed to request for asylum in the first EU country they step into, not a specific one of their request.

and the quotas werent even unanimous vote, so no, Poland didnt sign anything regarding them.

and the point is moot anyway, poland took migrants, just not from middle east but from ukraine

It does not require an unanimous vote, Poland case in court has also been shot down. The Ukraine angle falls short when we look at see that they are not a strain on them among other differences.

The party in power is making the EU criticism about the refusal to take in refugees, while the EU criticism goes far beyond that making it clear this is simply a smoke screen created by the party in power who's becoming increasingly more undemocratic, the question that one can ask here is, if Poland took on refugees would the EU be criticizing and looking at Poland and what is happening there right now?

The answer is, yes, absolutely yes. As the political class is attempt to take control and influence the law directly and is going after the freedoms of the press, the press who's purpose is to bring this corruption to light.

It is actually so that refugee crisis is playing out in favor of Poland. However Poland politicians are forgetting who they depend upon for their growth, while they aren't that's why they merely speak about the EU negatively and not even dare to mention the words of them leaving, since them leaving would mean the current political class would lose everything they have if not more.

One thing is for certain, whatever side wins this. The polish people will pay the price.

[zBIG]

Merkel's old fashioned view of Europe's future is the main problem of the EU. Today Poland likely is the only sane member that has enough courage to speak without disguise about what bothers us. Merkel's doing away with equal talks brings more trouble. Her ill views of migration problems already harmed Europe and Poland doesn't want to mess with it. Reparations are just good enough to compensate Poland's troubles.

[Mehrunes]

Exactly, their are sovereign countries, thus Polands desire to decide its demographic makeup should ruffle no feathers. Afterall it was Germany that desires new faces, fresh voices, a new enrichment of culture and cuisine. Let the Germans enjoy the bountiful harvest. :3

Again, sovereignty isn't a carte blanche into skirting on your legal obligations. You can't "but muh sovereignty" your way out of something you already agreed to.

If any country has the resources its the rich, pragmatic, modern and forward thinking Germans with their strong diverse multicultural society that has surely made Germany wealthy and powerful. Plus it is a small investment for the rich and delicious fruits of Diversity.

Except as I already told your deliberately ignorant ass, Germany not having resources to deal with all of them is why the issue of quotas was brought up to begin with. You don't get to whine your way out of that fact no matter how many metric tons of straw you use to construct your straw-man.

And they have, ones from the Ukraine that Germany must have forgotten. Or is ones status as a refugee depend on skin color?

Jesus fucking Christ, how deliberately obtuse can one person be. Because you seem to be expanding the frontiers of that trait without any end line in sight.

But why does it matter how many of them? Surely even if half of Germany was made up of such migrants it would be no trouble. After all, Diversity is our Strength correct? Diversity is a self-evident good and if that is true, than Germany taking in so many can only be a good thing.

The issue here is you are arguing inconsistently. If there is no harm or danger from these people coming in than Germany can surely absorb them all since Germany welcomed them in. After all they are nothing but a blessing and it is an honor and noble duty to house such poor benighted people.

What part of "Germany can't handle all on their own" makes this inconsistent (and which part you can't get), again? At least from a non-illiterate perspective? And do point out to me where have I made any value judgments about diversity for you to constantly drag it up from the cesspit that is your argument pool. If you're so keen on bringing up diversity all the time, try to diversify your godawful arguments.

Poland has become the main destination for Ukrainian refugee's, my mistake. However they are surely taking in economic migrants just as Germany. And again, why should Germany give up those 5000 blessings? After all every single one is a grateful Syrian I am sure, happy to join the German society and work their hardest for Germany. And Germany is all the better for having them.

For fuck's sake. You yourself have already made a thread about that horseshit and I quoted you official Polish data that shits all over bajillions refugees in Poland and that was weeks ago. Step out of your safe space, accept that you were wrong and try to keep whatever remains of your grasp on reality before it floats away like the rest of it.

You're not saying they are bad are you? That is hate speech buddy. :3

Again, point out to me the supposed value judgments on my part.

Germany is the EU's richest member, and how can it not handle them? Germany is rich, if they can't handle them, nobody can. And surely it is just a matter of housing them since the economic boon of resettling these people is surely going to more than pay for the costs up front. Again Diversity is Strength remember?

And does being the richest EU member make their coffers bottomless? 'Kay. Time to add basic economy to the list of things you're utterly clueless about. And there are larger bodies than German, like, I dunno, the EU, so the claim that nobody can handle them in case Germany can't is patently moronic.

Are you deliberately refusing to acknowledge the fact that the grand majority of the so-called refugees come from countries that haven't been touched by wars in years?

Except Syrians and Libyans are a drop in the ocean of economic migrants. I wonder if you simply do not know better or convinced yourself otherwise.

Neither "ermahgerd they have iPhones" nor "ermahgerd they are mostly male" you brought up says that, so if you wanted me to cover that instead of the xenophobic, ignorant horseshit you mentioned, you should have phrased your post differently. Nowhere have I supported non-refugees using this event for their benefit because it's quite frankly disgusting on their part to co-opt the suffering of war victims like that. If anything I'm in favor of stricter identity checks in this whole thing. But as far as I'm aware, the ones accepted for relocation out of Germany to fill the quotas have been already processed, with the ones of unknown variety being kept in Germany.

And you're perfectly right. There are not thousands, but millions of migrants that DO NOTHING. They may not be actively raping women and burning down their own accomodation centers, but they sure as hell aren't working, looking for a job or educating themselves. They do nothing and expect to be provided for for as long as they want.

I meant nothing of note for the media to report on, but whatever helps to fuel your bias on things that aren't reported on.

Among those millions, not even thousands have found jobs, so few of them have that it's pretty much within statistical error. Or are you going to go as far in your SJW preaching as to call actual facts reported by the same agencies that deal with migrants on daily basis anti-refugee propaganda?

That's mighty fucking weird given how 13% of them already worked almost a year ago. Let alone are looking for jobs. Not that expecting the job market to quickly adapt to a sudden influx of workers that may have some serious troubles with the language is much better.

Which agencies reported that there are millions of migrants unwilling to work or educate themselves? I haven't seen such data, so I'd like to.

If their ass is an agency, then that.

Poland DOES take refugees. From Ukraine. They dont count just because germany said so?

They don't count because stark majority of Ukrainians in Poland (literally more than 99.99%) are not refugees.

Do you see eastern european countries, that do take those refugees demanding western europeans to take their share?

Germany has multiple times as many Ukrainian refugees as Poland does.

Heck, the quotas werent even unanimously agreed upon, when that happened, they circumvented it and pretended unanimous vote wasnt required...

EU doesn't require unanimous vote in most of its dealings. There was no circumvention here.

regardless of the fact quotas will never work anyway, noone wants into eastern eu, when they get far better benefits in western eu and when they go there, they just sign papers and move back to germany or france or wherever they want to go, literally every single migrant our country took did just that. Everyone and their mother knows the quotas cant work, at this point its only a political game, germany cant really back down, because it would them, the self proclaimed EU leaders, show, how retarded merkel policy was in the first place, inviting millions of migrants into europe with literally zero infrastructure to handle them and trying to shove them to everyone else, when they coundt handle them.

Refugees that break the rules of their refuge, the location of which is kinda the first one, risk losing the status. So the quotas work just fine. The ones relocated to Baltic states, which have comparable if not worse quality of life stats as Poland remained there, to the chagrin of the local nationalists.

Ok, but there are two differences between Poles and Ukrainians - 1) there is a war on Ukraine 2) Ukrainians are from outside of EU. I just want to know why a person from Ukraine, who is genuinely fleeing the war should not count, and some people from North Africa should? Just because the Ukrainians don't ask for the refugee status?

Legal obligation is another matter. But legal agreements can be renegotiated, especially ones so controversial.

There are more types of refugees than war refugees, so Germany could bullshit their way around it. But make no mistake, that would be bullshit, which was precisely my point. And there is no war in most of the Ukraine, there is only separatism in eastern Ukraine. As per an article I recently read about Ukrainian workers in Poland, most of them came from western Ukraine, particularly Lviv regions, second biggest center being Kiev.

There is no war in Kiev, let alone in Lviv. And there is no risk of it, because the separatists don't live there and Russia was already sanctioned to hell and back over just Crimea shenanigans and aiding the separatists. They're not going to invade. And the people fleeing from eastern Ukraine? They mostly flee to western Ukraine, which already has a higher quality of life than Donets and Kharkiv. Meanwhile even the capital of Syria is largely devastated, even the government is an enemy to many Syrian civilians and terrorist scum of various colors is crawling all over the country.

Again, the stark majority of Ukrainians aren't refugees. Not in the status sense, not in the definition sense, not in any sense. The only thing they are escaping is lower quality of life, by their own admission. And yet, those who are refugees do count. It's a great thing that Poland helped even the little amount they did. But they count in terms of morality of the Polish state and the Polish nation it represents in general. They do not count as a get out of jail free card for Poland to skirt on the obligation to take 5000 relocated refugees it already agreed to take.

And it's disgusting from any way I look at it that PiS is trying to use them that way. Especially since their moralizing they added to their mental gymnastics to skirt on their obligations is based on a lie. Because in the real world if one delved into PiS' shitty counting of who has more Ukrainian refugees as if they were morality tokens, even dropping the issue of the Muslim refugees for a moment, Germany that supposedly shits all over the plight of the Ukrainians fleeing the war actually has more of them . So PiS is just shooting itself in the face with their narrative.

[Kiri]

I can't find the report ATM, but I do recall reading one. It was from some agency that had like 20k job openings available for migrants, and only a few dozens were filled after months since posting. I think it was linked to one of the German motor companies.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu...-idUSKBN13A22F Here's a readily available article.

That article does not really say that, though. It has 75% of them wanting a job, contrasting that view. It also concerns those that came to Germany during the most recent wave, not millions of migrants in general. As noted by the article, over time most of them will find work in Germany, but due to the bulk of refugees arriving at once, there have been some problems. Some structural problems pertaining that wave which are only tangentially mentioned in the article:
1. Work permits - most of those surveyed in the article were still having their asylum requests evaluated, meaning they were only allowed to work in a very limited capacity, if at all. This is in part due to trying to find the economic refugees you are against and filtering them out. With such a massive wave and insufficient documentation, these things take time.
2. Tolerated persons - about a third of asylum applicants are rejected and instead filed under tolerated persons, if they cannot be deported right away out of security concerns. Tolerated persons have a one year renewable status, which makes them undesirable for employers.
3. Language - German employers put a lot of emphasis on German skills. Language courses were only slowly made available to asylum seekers and refugees, causing delays.
4. The Länderklausel - due to the way Germany handles these refugees, they were distributed across the individual German states in a manner ignorant of labour markets. That means that the areas that refugees are settled in may not be the one where the job openings are. Refugees and asylum seekers are legally obligated to stay whererever they are put by the government for three years.

Due to these factors, integration of said wave has been slower than it usually is. For them, they do not do nothing because they are lazy or unwilling, but because they are unable to.

Regarding Syria: eh, I would not call that place safe to return to yet. There is still ongoing fighting. Plus the possibility of a war with Israel of all places. And there is no telling whether or not Assad will punish those who have fled the country. Don't get me wrong, I do hope that people will be able to return home soon. But there are still rebels in Syria, there is still IS, there is still the possibility of another war. That's not a situation that you dump a million extra refugees into.

[Sarevokcz]

It does not require an unanimous vote, Poland case in court has also been shot down. The Ukraine angle falls short when we look at see that they are not a strain on them among other differences.

The party in power is making the EU criticism about the refusal to take in refugees, while the EU criticism goes far beyond that making it clear this is simply a smoke screen created by the party in power who's becoming increasingly more undemocratic, the question that one can ask here is, if Poland took on refugees would the EU be criticizing and looking at Poland and what is happening there right now?

The answer is, yes, absolutely yes. As the political class is attempt to take control and influence the law directly and is going after the freedoms of the press, the press who's purpose is to bring this corruption to light.

It is actually so that refugee crisis is playing out in favor of Poland. However Poland politicians are forgetting who they depend upon for their growth, while they aren't that's why they merely speak about the EU negatively and not even dare to mention the words of them leaving, since them leaving would mean the current political class would lose everything they have if not more.

One thing is for certain, whatever side wins this. The polish people will pay the price.

oh now migrants have to be a "strain" to count? thats new.

and again, those migrants DONT WANT to go to the eastern european countries! how many times does this have to be repeated, some of those countries took migrants, who got everything they could dream of, within reason, and still felt they deserve more and were gone to germany/western europe inside of a month... there is a good reason basically none of the migrants asked for asylum in any of the transitory countries in balkan and went straight for germany/austria/france/UK

[Mehrunes]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...ationality.png

I wasn't aware there are wars in Eritrea, Nigeria, Somalia (arguably), Gambia, Senegal, Mali, Pakistan or the list of other countries the migrants come from. These countries are much farther from war than Ukraine is.

Eritrea is an oppressive authoritarian state with some of the worst human rights status in the world, which includes executing people without trials. Nigeria at the time of the start of the refugee crisis had large areas controlled by Boko Haram and other terrorist groups. Somalia is literally in a civil war. Mali borderlands are pretty much lawless territory, terrorist groups running around included.

One could argue that this year's Syrian refugees aren't really running from war, either, since the war is pretty much over. ISIS is getting mopped up on all fronts and the war doesn't really affect the grand majority of the population anymore, in the sense that they are in danger of dying. The economic damage was obviously much worse in Syria than in Ukraine.

ISIS has never been the only party to that war. They weren't even around when it began.

[caervek]

Sending a bill to Germany for WWII? Something that happened ~70 years ago? What the hell?

Basically, until 1990 Germany was two separate countries, both of which shunned their WW2 debts on a "ask us when we are unified" basis, then after reunification the new Germany declared that it had made a deal with the USA/UK/France as part of it's reunification and it's WW2 debt was gone.

Most countries bit their tongue and dealt with it, but now it's starting to get silly with Germany demanding money from countries it still owes billions (accounting for inflation/interest) to. Fining a country you stiffed on WW2 reparations (Poland) while demanding big repayments on loans from another you owe billions to (Greece) is a **** move and these countries are getting sick of it.

[Sarevokcz]

Refugees that break the rules of their refuge, the location of which is kinda the first one, risk losing the status. So the quotas work just fine. The ones relocated to Baltic states, which have comparable if not worse quality of life stats as Poland remained there, to the chagrin of the local nationalists.

barely anyone actually took any migrants based on the quotas, not sure where you get your info. and the big difference is, those balkan countries (romania, bulgaria, croatia) ARENT PART OF SCHENGEN! they guard their borders, schengen is different beast altogether and after western europe was criticising hungary and other nations about border controls for years, they cant really force them themselves now, can they?

[Mehrunes]

also there is the fact the vast majority of migrants ARENT from syria at all or the other fact, where those migrants travel all the way to western europe instead of being glad they get out of warzone and settle in any of their neighbouring countries with similar culture, neither of which makes them refugees no matter what some people say.

The neighboring states either refuse to take them, like the gulf states or Israel, or took a fuckton of them and don't have the resources to take more. And fleeing war and other similar things is what makes one a refugee. There's no actual requirement to just go to neighboring countries or one with a similar culture. Fun fact, during world war II, some Polish refugees escaped to Turkey and Iran. By your nonexistent grasp on the topic, they were not refugees.

[Sarevokcz]

The neighboring states either refuse to take them, like the gulf states or Israel, or took a fuckton of them and don't have the resources to take more. And fleeing war and other similar things is what makes one a refugee. There's no actual requirement to just go to neighboring countries or one with a similar culture. Fun fact, during world war II, some Polish refugees escaped to Turkey and Iran. By your nonexistent grasp on the topic, they were not refugees.

they werent fleeing the war the second they came to greece and italy, the end.

[Acidbaron]

oh now migrants have to be a "strain" to count? thats new.

and again, those migrants DONT WANT to go to the eastern european countries! how many times does this have to be repeated, some of those countries took migrants, who got everything they could dream of, within reason, and still felt they deserve more and were gone to germany/western europe inside of a month... there is a good reason basically none of the migrants asked for asylum in any of the transitory countries in balkan and went straight for germany/austria/france/UK

If immigrants are beneficial to your nation then you cannot make the argument that you cannot take them in, the whole basis of Poland "official" is just that. That they cannot take on any immigrants. We both know that the actual reason that party does not want to take them is because they are not white enough and not christian enough, as their base are generally that.

Those immigrants don't want to go to Belgium, France either or other nations, they have a select few nations in mind advocated by those who seek to gain financially from their misfortunes and generally the target remains the UK for several reasons. That's why for a long time campaigns have been set up in an attempt to kill these rumors. However this merely points out the importance of an actual policy on the matter a policy we cannot have a sensible debate around since nations like Poland intentionally obstruct it or at the least make it hard with childish tirades. If they were located in Poland and do not wish to stay there they could travel further and risk losing their asylum status, however said nations refuse to participate in merely that and we both know for what reason that is.

They are often in for a rude awakening in any nation, since Germany and the UK is not the paradise they have been told. However we are moving past the point here, where they wish to stay is not of real importance, that sounds harsh but that is the truth. It is a solidarity mechanism much like how Poland receives subsidies to grow their agriculture and other sectors, a mechanism to relieve the burden of nations like Greece and Italy.


In any case Poland will draw the short stick here and all it will do is lose face, what means the attempt of making Poland the biggest partner on the EU front in the centrum to eastern Europe have to put on hold for a while.

[Mehrunes]

The REAL difference is that EU is falling apart.

Uh, huh. It's apparently doing so before it was actually created, if one listened to the whining of eurosceptics and nationalists unable to cope with change, so I'm sure it's going to fall over any day now.

Eventually, Eurosceptics will be proven right. The more EU squirms and tigthenes the grip around its member states, the more those same states will try and run away from it.

And why would that be? Will flat earthers will eventually be proven right just because they repeat their nonsense for a certain amount of decades? And EU is the member states. The only power it has to grip anything is the power the member states gave it in the first place.

actually, no. migrants are supposed to request for asylum in the first EU country they step into, not a specific one of their request.

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/truth-about-refugees yeah, no.

and the quotas werent even unanimous vote, so no, Poland didnt sign anything regarding them.

There was no requirement of unanimity and Poland not only accepted the idea of quotas in general, it already accepted the quota assigned to them specifically.

and the point is moot anyway, poland took migrants, just not from middle east but from ukraine

And doing that did not free them from the obligation to take some from Middle East.

no, thats not what Dublin Regulation does, its pretty much "the first Member State where finger prints are stored or an asylum claim is lodged is responsible for a person's asylum claim." just because germany and few others decided not to follow the regulation doesnt mean others have to pay for it

And you seriously can't comprehend the difference between the first member state where an asylum claim is lodged and the first member state to enter?

barely anyone actually took any migrants based on the quotas, not sure where you get your info. and the big difference is, those balkan countries (romania, bulgaria, croatia) ARENT PART OF SCHENGEN! they guard their borders, schengen is different beast altogether and after western europe was criticising hungary and other nations about border controls for years, they cant really force them themselves now, can they?

Baltic states did, hence why I used them as an example. Not sure what Schengen or Balkans have to do with anything I said though.

they werent fleeing the war the second they came to greece and italy, the end.

Stomping your foot down like a child and claiming the end doesn't magically make you right.

[Acidbaron]

Basically, until 1990 Germany was two separate countries, both of which shunned their WW2 debts on a "ask us when we are unified" basis, then after reunification the new Germany declared that it had made a deal with the USA/UK/France as part of it's reunification and it's WW2 debt was gone.

Most countries bit their tongue and dealt with it, but now it's starting to get silly with Germany demanding money from countries it still owes billions (accounting for inflation/interest) to. Fining a country you stiffed on WW2 reparations (Poland) while demanding big repayments on loans from another you owe billions to (Greece) is a **** move and these countries are getting sick of it.

I guess i must move to the UK, there it seems it is normal to obtain a loan and then question the loan and dispute it based on what the banker might have done in the past, that is your argument here and it is a flimsy one at best.

Also since certain brits have a hard time with this, accountability for ones own actions and all that, all of the EU, including the UK requested steps from Greece to repay the previous loans. It is even so that within the German government voices have been going up to remove chunks of the debt if steps are made to ensure this does not repeat again. However the Greek people elected a few that rather created a Greek tragedy on principle then work towards a solution.

Oh and before you say austerity has always been a must way to move forward, it is not the results is what matter and if we look at Portugal who got their house in order sooner then Greece did, they went with a different approach and while facing criticism at first they were neither prevented or penalized when taking that course of action.

But i'm a bit tired of speaking about Greece, especially with people who for some reason refuse to see the whole picture or even merely taking into account things that actually happened vs things that never happened.

ps: I blame the UK politics and politicians and their plans to expand the EU too soon and by too much and while having done so creating a mess and leaving the rest of the EU to solve it, while taking the cowards path out. How far the mighty have fallen, etc, etc.

[Mehrunes]

Of course they have both to do with eachother in the sense that it's more of a revenge act but legally they are two different issues.

Ah, yes, legally they indeed are separate, whereas I meant it only in political sense. I guess I misunderstood your post.

Also who became antagonistic first is going to be a chicken-egg-question, the EU is usually mocked as toothless by anyone, when it tries to show its milk teeth everyone is like "OMG the EU is Worst Rouge EU!".

In this case it's clearly Poland. All EU did was safeguard its law, which it's legally obliged to do. PiS just took it as a personal slight because its politicians, starting with its leader, can't stand the idea of someone not considering them to be flawless paragons of justice. Their arguments during the entirety of this issue were patently ridiculous and many times backfired in their faces, an example of that being Poland seeking a verdict of the Venice Commission.

Most countries bit their tongue and dealt with it, but now it's starting to get silly with Germany demanding money from countries it still owes billions (accounting for inflation/interest) to. Fining a country you stiffed on WW2 reparations (Poland) while demanding big repayments on loans from another you owe billions to (Greece) is a **** move and these countries are getting sick of it.

EU fined Poland, not Germany. EU is not responsible for Germany's dealings and even if it was, legally the topic of reparations and the fine are two different issues independent from each other.

[Kiri]

Basically, until 1990 Germany was two separate countries, both of which shunned their WW2 debts on a "ask us when we are unified" basis, then after reunification the new Germany declared that it had made a deal with the USA/UK/France as part of it's reunification and it's WW2 debt was gone.

Most countries bit their tongue and dealt with it, but now it's starting to get silly with Germany demanding money from countries it still owes billions (accounting for inflation/interest) to. Fining a country you stiffed on WW2 reparations (Poland) while demanding big repayments on loans from another you owe billions to (Greece) is a **** move and these countries are getting sick of it.

Factually incorrect.
West Germany paid reparations to Greece after the war, which the latter accepted. Later Greek governments did not consider the debt sufficiently paid, but that does not mean Germany shunned reparations.
Poland as well received reparations from West Germany and cut a deal with East Germany to waive reparations in exchange for territory. Despite this, unified Germany has paid billions in reparations to Poland anyway.

On the other hand, Poland is not being fined by Germany but by the EU.

[CaptainV]

The EU is like a bad homeowner's association. Countries with any sense should follow Britain's lead and gtfo.

Its a titanic waiting to happen, the EU is trying to be ROME but is far too ambitious and demanding for its own good, if it doesnt ease up on its policies more countries "will" follow Britain.

[Arrashi]

Well they sure as hell need that money. All those smoleńsk memorials won't build themselves.

[caervek]

Poland as well received reparations from West Germany and cut a deal with East Germany to waive reparations in exchange for territory.

The reparations made to poland by West Germany were just a part payment like the ones made to Greece, in both cases they were just the tip of the iceberg.

The deal between Poland/East Germany was basically a deal made between the USSR and the USSR involving pawns.

On the other hand, Poland is not being fined by Germany but by the EU.

EU fined Poland, not Germany.

And who controls the EU? lol.

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it seems it is normal to obtain a loan and then question the loan and dispute it based on what the banker might have done in the past

This is a comical yet accurate explanation of the situation between Greece/Germany, the Poland/Germany situation is pretty much the same:

http://i.imgur.com/j7dEG1h.png

- - - Updated - - -

ps: I blame the UK politics and politicians

If it makes you feel better we blame them too for dragging the country into the fourth reich against it's will, if they had given us a referendum on joining the EU we could have voted it down there and then.

[Acidbaron]

This is a comical yet accurate explanation of the situation between Greece/Germany, the Poland/Germany situation is pretty much the same:

http://i.imgur.com/j7dEG1h.png

Well if you can merely copy inaccurate country pictures, i guess that says enough about you ability to actually participate in this, thank you for this confirmation of yourself