Almost all remaining players have an unhealthy attitude towards WoW

[Seefer]

Maybe learn some control and not want everything now now now, it's called being an adult, don't blame Blizzard if you can't prioritize in game stuff or if you have to have something so quick you develop and unhealthy attitude.

[cparle87]

They are designing it for paying subscribers to milk the living shit out of them. That's the problem. It's designed to make you play more to pay more.

Yes, cause I'm sure there are thousands upon thousands of subscribers who said to themselves, "Darn, my gametime is up and I didn't get that toy off that rare or that fishing pole skin. Guess I need to pay Blizz for another month so I get them. Then I'll quit. For real this time."

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I hate the 'RNG chest mounts' as much as the next person, but thankfully Argus has provided a huge number of mounts from actual rep vendors and easily-farmed rare spawns. So it appears they learned that lesson.

Considering Army of the Light has THREE of those exalted paragon mounts, I'd disagree with that statement.

[ingsve]

And what about everything before Mythic+? There's not much reason to do those besides shoehorned quests.

Gearing? At the start of the expansion even before people could do EM dungeons were the main source of gear even at normal and heroic levels. That's how it's always been even after they removed rep from dungeons. My point was that Blizzard has for the first time in a long while made dungeons matter for way longer in the expansion so it just seemed like an odd thing to critizise since it's one of the things they've actually done right.

[Dibidus]

Because all the good ones left due to their nerves being lost on the dumb shits that are being accepted by majority of dumb shits. Fighting their battles in real life where it matters to be good again.

[dmerriam005]

I take it some of you guys never played EverQuest?

[Ozyorkbourne]

This is incorrect. It's not "All remaining players." it's a very small percentage of players. You have to realize that less than 5% of players ever set foot in Mythic raids, and those are the players that want 24/7 content and engage in content an unhealthy amount.

I mean, you say that, but we're not. Mythic raiding at a higher level is stressful as fuck. We're happy when a content tier is over and we can go semi-casual. I find it to be the complete opposite infact, that it's the casual players who barely raid that complain about nothing to do.

What i'd argue is that you see these complaints on forums, but so few players compared to the entire WoW population actually use forums, class discords ect that even if everyone on a forum complained, that would still be a minority by a vast margin.

[ItachiZaku]

When you're looking at an activity that's supposed to just be a fun thing to do in your downtime, it's pretty daunting when you have to play for 18 hours to complete it.

And in all honesty, 18 hours is nothing at all to grind something. That's actually pretty quick and easy compared to hundreds of other things to grind out in game.

[Super Kami Dende]

Nah just the loud minority tends to move to MMO-C to be pathetic after they get banned from Official Forums.

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And what about everything before Mythic+? There's not much reason to do those besides shoehorned quests.

doing quests as content in an RPG? How awful. Those diabolical monsters.

[Varitok]

WoW had no problem with it back in the day. Its funny how its a problem now.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

My biggest problem with WoW was the increasing direction they took with distancing themselves from "earned" gear and towards an almost completely randomized loot grind. Going into WotLK I could appreciate the purchasable(or earned depending on how you view it) gear. This allowed you to remain somewhat relevant without being a hardcore raider. You still had to work towards it but you knew that were consistently making progress.

I spent whole weeks in Legion, fresh off of my leveling and getting no gear from LFR nor the dungeons and that was with the very distinct possibility if anything DID drop it'd not be suitable for me. I quit, haven't touched 7.3 and may not be going back for the expansion in the first time since... ever!

While FFXIV I'm more than willing to return to. I like how I can get on, grind out the sets, basically do everything in the game, feel satisfied, and then either dink around, play alts, or simply move on to something else meanwhile. Not a perfect game mind you, by any means, but the endgame itself was solid, progressive, and didn't feel like a huge waste of time. Even solo friendly(as in I didn't need a guild) by and large! As mentioned, WoW went the complete opposite of this philosophy.

What I am saying is, this isn't just an issue with the amount of content but how it is presented. It's simply not fun in most cases. If I didn't know better? I'd honestly assume that they're getting readily to implement some kind of loot box or "extra rolls" system into the game via real world currency. That's how the game's evolution feels currently and it is really, really tacky in my humble opinion regardless of whether they make that final push or not.

[Deleted]

I mean, you say that, but we're not. Mythic raiding at a higher level is stressful as fuck. We're happy when a content tier is over and we can go semi-casual. I find it to be the complete opposite infact, that it's the casual players who barely raid that complain about nothing to do.

What i'd argue is that you see these complaints on forums, but so few players compared to the entire WoW population actually use forums, class discords ect that even if everyone on a forum complained, that would still be a minority by a vast margin.

I partially agree with this, but i think it's missing something.

I think that the majority of compalint comes from a middle ground that i call "the veteran casual that can't live without WoW". This is a very special kind of casual. It's often a veteran player, at least since WoTLK or even TBC. This player is somewhat skilled and knows game very very well, because a)he was a raider in the past or b)he simply played this game a lot with a lot of classes.

Well, this kind of veteran casual can consume casual content very very very fast. Once done, he won't or can't do raid (even for legitimate reasons), so he constantly blame about lacking of content. And he will always ask for world engaging content. And, ofc,since he is somewhat addicted to WoW, he is not able to simply unsub while waiting for new content and will constantly whine on Forums. (probably this kind of player has already done all old stuff too).

P.S: i am a casual veteran (not whiner) XD

[Deleted]

Then they play the wrong game.
I get home from work and did everything that needs to be done. I have several things to choose from if my friends are online:
- do world quests to advance in campaign, kill some rares (10-30m)
- do some mithic+ with my pve oriented friends (30-1h)
- do some arena with my pvp oriented friends (1-2h)
I play wow cuz i enjoy playing with friends (irl, not random guildies).
If you want 24/7 content, then play a single player game.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Nah just the loud minority tends to move to MMO-C to be pathetic after they get banned from Official Forums.

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doing quests as content in an RPG? How awful. Those diabolical monsters.

You can get banned from the official forums? Thought that was nigh impossible these days. I've never been banned from the WoW forums but have been banned from MMO-C a dozen times over. :P

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Then they play the wrong game.
I get home from work and did everything that needs to be done. I have several things to choose from if my friends are online:
- do world quests to advance in campaign, kill some rares (10-30m)
- do some mithic+ with my pve oriented friends (30-1h)
- do some arena with my pvp oriented friends (1-2h)
I play wow cuz i enjoy playing with friends (irl, not random guildies).
If you want 24/7 content, then play a single player game.

Almost everything is more enjoyable with friends - period. Hell, serving time in jail is a lot better with a buddy!

It doesn't mean the game's content and structure is still good though. I'd honestly probably still play WoW and Overwatch if I had more friends to frequently play with, thereby avoiding the community and bypassing some of the more frustrating elements of the game itself. However, that's not the case and you'd be surprised how many are in a similar boat for varying reasons.

[Reclaimer]

Problem: people expect WoW to be able to entertain them 24/7. People spend more than a reasonable number of hours every day playing WoW.

So you not only have the magical powers to know what people are thinking about also how what they are doing? You sound like a god wannabe.

Not going to provide tons of examples but I'm sure everyone is aware of the current grindy RNG approach. Let's take a look at the new fishing "content" added in 7.3: 6 fisherfriends, +-3 hours to get exalted with each. That's 18+ hours to get the new Underlight Emerald. 18 hours is almost a day.

Perfect example that you have no idea what you're talking about because if you did you would understand that only 1 fisherfriend is active a day. So to the most that's 6 days of your "content" besides I also think it's safe to say not everyone is just going to park and max them out for 6 days in a row.

It's pretty obvious that Blizzard started designing content with an addict as their target customer after Cata. When you're looking at an activity that's supposed to just be a fun thing to do in your downtime, it's pretty daunting when you have to play for 18 hours to complete it. You know what else you could do in 18 hours? Finish Doom 2016 on the highest difficulty with 100% completion. Learn to draw or play an instrument at a novice level. Read several no.

I laughed at this a lot harder than I should have, again you can't beat it in 18 hours. It takes 6 days at least. Also, you can learn how to draw well and learn an instrument in less than a day? Sorry but you're full of shit. ( Coming from someone who does know how to do both of these things at a BACTH-DE level )

No wonder the subs are dropping when content is designed for people who play 12 hours a day and almost everything is super daunting for players who treat WoW as a game rather than an integral part of their daily lives

You have no access to sub numbers so you're up shit creek wonder boy. Must be that magically god like powers you have right? How other people spend their time is nothing of your fucking business anyway.

[xalenthas]

lol at this "will take 20 hours to get so I must no life and do that in one session!" News flash, it's going to be there a while, rather than be part of the now now now crowd, why not just spend an hour a day ... it now takes 20 days but you still managed to get on with your life; is it really a problem?

[Accendor]

Problem: people expect WoW to be able to entertain them 24/7. People spend more than a reasonable number of hours every day playing WoW.

Not going to provide tons of examples but I'm sure everyone is aware of the current grindy RNG approach. Let's take a look at the new fishing "content" added in 7.3: 6 fisherfriends, +-3 hours to get exalted with each. That's 18+ hours to get the new Underlight Emerald. 18 hours is almost a day.

It's pretty obvious that Blizzard started designing content with an addict as their target customer after Cata. When you're looking at an activity that's supposed to just be a fun thing to do in your downtime, it's pretty daunting when you have to play for 18 hours to complete it. You know what else you could do in 18 hours? Finish Doom 2016 on the highest difficulty with 100% completion. Learn to draw or play an instrument at a novice level. Read several novels.

No wonder the subs are dropping when content is designed for people who play 12 hours a day and almost everything is super daunting for players who treat WoW as a game rather than an integral part of their daily lives.

Just to address your example directly: Mate, 18 hours is nothing. This is probably the last fishing content that is going to be implemented in Legion (I am just assuming this, there is no source, but it seems very likely). Meaning that this content has to last for at least 6 more months until the next expansion. And that would be the very, very, very best case. It is more likely that it needs to last for something between 10 and 12 months.
This seems like really, really little and I think it should take way longer or there should be way more.

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Ok, here's a better example: when you spend 9 hours a week raiding (the average amount for a mid-tier guild), it's a hobby. When you have to spend additional 9+ hours a week to keep up with the content outside raids to be able to raid at a mid-tier level because people complained about a "lack of content", you know that the game is not being designed with people who treaty it as a hobby in mind. It's being designed for people who want it to be a large part of their lives.

1 hour a day is PLENTY of entertainment for the current price of monthly subscription.

The point is, WoW needs to go back to being a GAME rather than a lifestyle choice.

Wow just got back to being a game with legion.

[Arainie]

That is complete bullshit. If they designed a game where every task took a couple of hours to complete you'd be whining that there was nothing to do and that there was a lack of content. It's amazing that they've found a way to please those who want to play 12 hours a day AND the majority of the casual community as well.

Why do you need to complete the achievement in a few days? Why not spread those 18 hours over a few weeks or a month? You'll still get the achievement, only at your own pace. Isn't it great that there's an abundance of content for those with little time to play and still enough for those with a lot of time to play?

tl;dr People are never satisfied. Either there's too much or too little.

[Chemii]

Actually most people dictate their lives around their hobby, which is the same with wow.

How much time you dedicate to your hobby is your own decision.

Its the same as playing football, if you dedicate more time to training, the team you play for will probably be better. If your argument is that you play football for fun, that's perfectly fine as long as you accept you might not be very good or on a good team.

This is the same as playing an instrument for fun - you get out what you put in.

Same with a band.

Same with drawing.

Same with writing music.

Same with YOYO skills.

Same with fucking everything.

Wow is a game - what the hell does that have to do with anything. The best gamers in the world are the ones that play the most.

Accept if you don't play a lot - you can't do the hardest things. Grinds may require only time investment - but grinding also requires some level of discipline. Stop asking for everything on a plate because you can't be bothered to put in any effort.

[Aeula]

Nah just the loud minority tends to move to MMO-C to be pathetic after they get banned from Official Forums.

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doing quests as content in an RPG? How awful. Those diabolical monsters.

A quest to do something that you have no other reason to do. Not fun.

[Raqubor]

A quest to do something that you have no other reason to do. Not fun.

The quest itself is the reason...