The Judgement skill needs some buffing

[Amalaric]

This is my observation from grinding mobs and not from PvP as I don't do PvP.

1. Decrease the cooldown to eight seconds.

2. Increase the range to forty yards.

Doing these two buffs to the skill will make the Paladin class that much more enjoyable to play with.

And one last thing that I want to say is that the damage needs no buffing at all as far as I'm concerned.

[Ulthane]

From a PvE raiding standpoint I will say this.

To keep this model in terms of mechanic the following needs to happen.

-Lower CD of Judgment
-Buff it's damage
-Buff mastery. (Have yet to see how the 7.3 mastery change will play out.)

Greater Judgment talent needs to have more impact like Titanic Might does.

So I will say you are right spot on for the most part but it needs lots of love right now.

[Deleted]

Well... after the next patch it will hit harder. With t21 it will hit for 60% more.

I tested it on the PTR and it felt really good hitting that hard.

[Nurvus]

Actually, I'd rather our goal wasn't to have 100% uptime on Mastery.
I'd rather they increased Judgment cooldown but massively buff Mastery, and then give us a cooldown reduction/reset when a Judged target dies so that the higher cooldown doesn't punish target swapping.

[Ulthane]

Actually, I'd rather our goal wasn't to have 100% uptime on Mastery.
I'd rather they increased Judgment cooldown but massively buff Mastery, and then give us a cooldown reduction/reset when a Judged target dies so that the higher cooldown doesn't punish target swapping.

With most mechanics in Mythic that wont work. Too many things that can occur that will force you to move away or swap. You want this on a low CD.

[Deleted]

Actually, I'd rather our goal wasn't to have 100% uptime on Mastery.
I'd rather they increased Judgment cooldown but massively buff Mastery, and then give us a cooldown reduction/reset when a Judged target dies so that the higher cooldown doesn't punish target swapping.

Are you beeing sarcastic? That is literally what arms does (except the target dying part).

Works for warriors cause they can pool things and have a short CD to pop with it.

We are a sustained damage spec. Our CD lasts upwards of 30 seconds every 2m. It wouldn't work and quite honestly sounds terrible. It would break our viability even more. Just play arms for that kind of gameplay, really. :P

[Nurvus]

Are you beeing sarcastic? That is literally what arms does (except the target dying part).

Works for warriors cause they can pool things and have a short CD to pop with it.

We are a sustained damage spec. Our CD lasts upwards of 30 seconds every 2m. It wouldn't work and quite honestly sounds terrible. It would break our viability even more. Just play arms for that kind of gameplay, really. :P

I'm not talking about 20 sec cooldown with 8 duration like Arms baseline.
But a couple seconds downtime in end gear wouldn't that bad and allow a higher skill cap - you can use Execution Sentence and generators during downtime, and focus on finishers during uptime.

But seems like you missed the part where I mention massively buffed Mastery.

My preference has nothing to do with wanting more or less viability.
I simply dislike trivialization.

[Balinus]

We are goin to get a buff tomorrow

[-Skye]

I just want long arm of the law back

[Deleted]

Take leggo shoulders , time ES, judge, WoA, grab the highlord soul leggo and enjoy.
Btw yoyi ain't gaining much output but the gameplay is there.
The numbers are already tuned and they never gonna match war.

[Deleted]

I'm not talking about 20 sec cooldown with 8 duration like Arms baseline.
But a couple seconds downtime in end gear wouldn't that bad and allow a higher skill cap - you can use Execution Sentence and generators during downtime, and focus on finishers during uptime.

But seems like you missed the part where I mention massively buffed Mastery.

My preference has nothing to do with wanting more or less viability.
I simply dislike trivialization.

Quite honestly, i hate the judgment window and would rather see it go than for it to get close to what arms is.

I don't get that you say you dislike trivialization but you are saying you don't want a once every 20 second window but a few seconds more than what we currently got. Well currently my judgment has a 9 second something CD.
Your wiggle room here is between 10 and 20 seconds. You want a 15 second CD on judgment is that it? As i said, the way our class works does not lend itself to it. We would have to purposidly hold off using abilities so we have them off CD during the window. Not one part of this sounds like fun to me, but to each his own.

Btw Execution sentence is cancer cause it's impossible to maximise effectively. There is no skill involved in using it. Just make a tmw or wa and you're sorted. Theres no fun in the ability because it doesn't line up with anything. It doesn't fit the rotation. It's simply an irregularity whose damage has to be OP to be worth using because you will have to delay it to line up with the window, unless you got more than 31.25% haste to keep the debuff always on (but the cost on other stats probably makes it not worth it. So, it's always doomed to be unsatisfactory. It needs a redesign.

[Reith]

Take leggo shoulders , time ES, judge, WoA, grab the highlord soul leggo and enjoy.
Btw yoyi ain't gaining much output but the gameplay is there.
The numbers are already tuned and they never gonna match war.

I'd be fine with not matching top dps if we had decent offhealing. If Word of Glory didn't have charges, make it weaker if they have to.. it could work well enough as a meaningful talent choice.

- - - Updated - - -

Quite honestly, i hate the judgment window and would rather see it go than for it to get close to what arms is.

I don't get that you say you dislike trivialization but you are saying you don't want a once every 20 second window but a few seconds more than what we currently got. Well currently my judgment has a 9 second something CD.
Your wiggle room here is between 10 and 20 seconds. You want a 15 second CD on judgment is that it? As i said, the way our class works does not lend itself to it. We would have to purposidly hold off using abilities so we have them off CD during the window. Not one part of this sounds like fun to me, but to each his own.

I miss the passive mastery.

[Ravingmad]

I just want long arm of the law back

I miss it too And when it used to give HP as well... I understand the mechanic with the new judgement and all... but the previous passive +holy damage from abilities was way more fun to play, as the current Judgement debuff restrict the gameplay a lot.

The T21 will be more judgement oriented. But IMO, since the last 3 tier, our Tier bonus set are pretty much all the same. Buff %dmg of 1 main abilities, improve HP generation. Thats really all we need, but I feel like Blizzard is lacking imagination.

[Titans]

Actually, I'd rather our goal wasn't to have 100% uptime on Mastery.
I'd rather they increased Judgment cooldown but massively buff Mastery, and then give us a cooldown reduction/reset when a Judged target dies so that the higher cooldown doesn't punish target swapping.

I strongly disagree about increasing the judgment cooldown, check the fury warrior forums from MoP to see the strong criticisms with that style of play (even worse for ret because of the lack of synergy between a holy power resource and a debuff style of play). That being said, I like the idea of the cooldown being shorter or reset when the judged target dies, it sucks to judge a target only for someone to have a massive execute and you are left waiting 9 seconds to do damage.

[shambles123]

Easier fix would be replace holy wraith talent with a judgement talent.
increase the damage of judgement by 25% and the duration of the buff buy 50%

[Deleted]

Easier fix would be replace holy wraith talent with a judgement talent.
increase the damage of judgement by 25% and the duration of the buff buy 50%

That would be pretty contra-productive...
Let's make it easier to keep it up all the time to not have to keep watch on the debuff...
But let's also raise it's damage even further which would cause it to be casted more often (thus making sure people use it more often)

I think what they should be going for with this talent-slot is what they intended for crusade or something. :P

[Super Kami Dende]

I just wish Mastery went back to Hand of Light. Colossus Sma... I mean Judgement has made Paladin much less fun this expansion. Even if they just made Judgement do something better along side Hand of Light to still make it a worthwhile move to use. I.e- Go back to giving a Holy Power/increasing Hand of Light damage taken by target by 20% of something.

Like even Arms has a talent that increases duration and reduces CD. DO want please.

[Venziir]

Am I the only one, that misses the original Judgment? The one that would trigger whatever secondary ability of your seal? I honestly miss that old school seal 'n judgment system of yore.

[Super Kami Dende]

Am I the only one, that misses the original Judgment? The one that would trigger whatever secondary ability of your seal? I honestly miss that old school seal 'n judgment system of yore.

Yeah. As much as I often tell people to remove their nostalgia goggles when it comes to Vanilla/TBC. I used to actually have a lot of fun seal twisting. Though these changes were always made because the average player couldn't do it right.

I played Ret through TBC, with a Prot Pally and Holy Pally in our 25man. The fact Judgement and Crusader Strike worked in a way where it refreshed ANY judgments already on the target, all 3 of us judged the Boss with different Seals and I was the refresher.

[Raugnaut]

Am I the only one, that misses the original Judgment? The one that would trigger whatever secondary ability of your seal? I honestly miss that old school seal 'n judgment system of yore.

No, you aren't the only one. Good times, good times. Current balance team has likely never even seen that version of paladins though.