Conservatism IS the new counter-culture.

[Theodarzna]

The decline of negotiating powers of the working class is, in my opinion, the most ignored subject in modern political debate while also effecting the most people.

It's ignored for a reason IMHO. Power has found a way to avoid ever talking about it.

[Edge-]

Not many elites left when you remove the IMF, the Military Industrial Complex, the CIA, the World Bank, Silicon Valley, the major banking foundations, fuck I cannot think of much else left for them?

Anyone with a post-graduate degree, or depending on whom you talk to an undergraduate degree. Doubly so if you happen to live on a coast.

[maomoa]

No, in truth Conservatism only can be comparatively called "Counter-Culture" because the Left has become so institutional..... by the Left I mean whatever husked abomination has decided to destroy the Left and cast it away and wear its skin.

- - - Updated - - -



.... Whatever you say boss.

But really, Deep State? Irma is a conspiracy. Harvey was made by Harp. Moon Landing was made in Hollywood.

[Dug]

Not many elites left when you remove the IMF, the Military Industrial Complex, the CIA, the World Bank, Silicon Valley, the major banking foundations, fuck I cannot think of much else left for them?

Then work on your selective bias. Here's just one to get you started, Donald Trump. A billionaire businessman, reality TV star with global dealings is, no matter what you say, an elite. Doesn't really matter what you or anyone elses personal opinion on him is. They supported him as a means to an end but support all the same. Also their love over intelligence agencies depends entirely on who and what they're investigating. Same goes for the military. Alt-right (""conservatism"") are not counter-culture they simply want their elites in power, much like the other "side".

[Theodarzna]

Yep. It's a simple issue of supply and demand. Flooding the labour pool of more developed countries with low-skilled workers from outside just makes it harder for the people in those countries (past immigrants included) to get a decent income. The support of freedom of movement isn't particularly socialist (if you're in a more economically prosperous country). It might be internationalist, but it's anti-worker.

Other factors reduce negotiation power, like the corruption of and falling influence of unions, but freedom of movement has been shown to do it. The Bank of England has released research showing it drives down wages.

At the end of the day, whatever constitutes the Left, bent the knee to corporate power a long time ago.

Heck today most of the so-called lefty media sings the praises of corporate institutions as our new moral guardians. -_-

[Deleted]

As a conservative I am not sure if I feel okay with the notion that the current "counter-culture" is being labeled as conservatives.

[Thalassian Bob]

At the end of the day, whatever constitutes the Left, bent the knee to corporate power a long time ago.

Heck today most of the so-called lefty media sings the praises of corporate institutions as our new moral guardians. -_-

Yeah, it sucks. But, check out the guy in the video I linked in my edited reply to you on the first page. If the Labour party was full of people like him, I'd be all over it.

I was quite lucky in that the MP in my area was a pro-Brexit Labour member.

One "Left-wing" outlet you might want to try is http://www.spiked-online.com/. It's a demos-loving, pro-liberty outlet run by post-Marxist libertarian types. One of the only lights in the darkness of the 21st Century Left, in my opinion. Though, most of the "Left" disowns them.

[Theodarzna]

But really, Deep State? Irma is a conspiracy. Harvey was made by Harp. Moon Landing was made in Hollywood.

The concept of a "Deep State" isn't even a conspiracy. The idea that bureaucratic institutions exist, develop their own culture and imperatives and stay irregardless of who is actually in an elected position isn't exactly the work of Alex Jones.

[Theodarzna]

Then work on your selective bias. Here's just one to get you started, Donald Trump. A billionaire businessman, reality TV star with global dealings is, no matter what you say, an elite. Doesn't really matter what you or anyone elses personal opinion on him is. They supported him as a means to an end but support all the same. Also their love over intelligence agencies depends entirely on who and what they're investigating. Same goes for the military. Alt-right (""conservatism"") are not counter-culture they simply want their elites in power, much like the other "side".

With no supporters, zero backing by any major mainstream media or news outlets, near total opposition even from the Kochs and not exactly on good terms with any institution. Just ask good old Skroe, he is the enemy of the establishment, of course he believes the establishment is good, and I guess by transitive properties of alliances you do too since anything that isn't Trump becomes good.

[Edge-]

The concept of a "Deep State" isn't even a conspiracy. The idea that bureaucratic institutions exist, develop their own culture and imperatives and stay irregardless of who is actually in an elected position isn't exactly the work of Alex Jones.

But the notion that one exists in the US, is. Again, where's even the slightest shred of evidence that this apparent shadowy organization exerts the kind of power and influence you all continue to claim it does?

Are they so bad at what they do that they just let Trump win rather than defeating him and using Hillary like they apparently wanted? I mean, how powerful are they if they couldn't even rig an election, for Pete's sake?

[maomoa]

The concept of a "Deep State" isn't even a conspiracy. The idea that bureaucratic institutions exist, develop their own culture and imperatives and stay irregardless of who is actually in an elected position isn't exactly the work of Alex Jones.

Fake news.

[Deleted]

Punk Rock is anarchist inspired music(could fit either liberal or libertarians). A conservative version might be something like... Country, Christian Rock, or Classical?

Imagining a punk rebel christian rock group, is probably one of the most humorous things I have imagined in some time

[Theodarzna]

In the purest understanding of that word, yes.

If the culture is moving more "left" where every emotion and opinion is entertained (no matter how inane they are) the counter to that is a more measured/classical conservative outlook. Self-discipline, frugality in expenses, measured change, etc, etc.

Punk Rock is anarchist inspired music(could fit either liberal or libertarians). A conservative version might be something like... Country, Christian Rock, or Classical?

Elite Culture is moving more Left in a kind of social sense of tolerant hedonism. In the sense that the Right has become home to people who want some measure of change against what Elite Culture wants to do and where it wants to take us, in a sense Conservatives become the Counter-Culture since Elite Culture has no place for them. The world they want to build is without the tolerant hedonism of the #SO-PROGRESSIVE crowd.

[cubby]

Being conservative because it goes against the mainstream doesn't make you right. It makes you edgy.

Totally - loving a guy who disgraces the white house on a daily basis and saluting the nazi flag is so cool nowadays.

[Mittens]

Mm. The support for the EU among young "progressives"/socialists/liberals is a head-scratcher too. They claim to hate capitalism but love a neo-liberal institution dedicated to free market economics and exploits the ability to move around cheap labour, weakening the wage-negotiating power of workers and increasing competition in proletarian jobs.

Wages would still go down despite immigrants. A few points higher doesn't make much of a difference.

[Sormine]

Other factors reduce negotiation power, like the corruption of and falling influence of unions, but freedom of movement has been shown to do it.

Yeah I was mainly referencing the decline of unions, typically the cited by economists as the decline of working class powers.

[Thalassian Bob]

Wages would still go down despite immigrants. A few points higher doesn't make much of a difference.

You tell that to families on minimum wage. Any increase in income makes a world of difference.

[Mittens]

Ot: Shilling for more corporate power is apparetly counterculture these days.

[Moralgy]

Sureee it is, I guess all the old punk rock bands are preaching conservative ideologies these days and not opposing Trump, right?

[Theodarzna]

Fake news.

Of all the wonders of the Age of Trump, my favorite has been the complete rebuke of their own past by those who've cast their lot with the Democratic party. The same people who once said "No Blood for Oil" wax longingly for either a military coup in the case of Sarah Silverman or hope for an overthrow of popular referendum's. It is a strange time to behold, just one of the many Wonders of the Age of Trump.