Conservatism IS the new counter-culture.

[Mayhem]

As I said, the Bank of England put out a research release showing that immigration has kept wages down (it's simple supply and demand).

Way to relieve the employers from paying a fair wage and the government from enacting the obviously needed laws, well done bank of england, well done. Did the bad immigrants pressure companies to pay lower wages and the government to not do anything about it?

[Endus]

I don't actually understand why divorce is terrible. I mean I understand it can be terrible, but if you act like an adult, come to a agreement that you no longer love each other and move on, there is nothing wrong with that.

That may be true if you both realize you've fallen out of love with each other, but if the divorce is one-sided, or there's a betrayal of trust, the hurt runs really deep.

[Glorious Leader]

It shouldn't be that much of a head-scratcher. The left has always been about international solidarity and the EU is a step towards that. They believe that the EU can be reformed to improve labour rights among other things. The real head-scratcher is why people who care about labour rights and increasing the minimum wage would consider voting conservative who have generally been against those things.

A host of reasons. Mostly its propoganda, the right wing has a particularly nasty media.agenda through places like fox and now the more extreme breitbart. Right wingers also tend to gin up support on social issues. Gay marriage, abortion, guns etc etc. In fact iirc thats what the majority of trump voters voted on. It was not economic anxiety but key social issues that drove trumps turn out.

[Sky High]

I think his a scum fuck much like Alex Jones who dangles fear mongering and straight up idiocy to his drooling audience to bat at like autistic cats.

[Thalassian Bob]

Way to relieve the employers from paying a fair wage and the government from enacting the obviously needed laws, well done bank of england, well done. Did the bad immigrants pressure companies to pay lower wages and the government to not do anything about it?

Why abide a problem and solve it later rather than just stop the problem from happening at all?

So since brexit how's that turning out for them?

Low-skill migration and house prices are down, can't be all bad.

[Theodarzna]

I had an epiphany this weekend...

If you put these two quotes together, they make more sense:

Know thyne self, knowledge is power. Meaning the more we know about the universe (also literally us, we are made from the same matter/energy), the more control we can exert on ourselves, and our environment. Right now we are still rather rudimentary... but once we figure out how order comes out of chaos, I think it will speed up. And we will need an impartial decision-making engine to help (AI), IMO.

Because we do not see reality as it is, we see reality in such a way that helps us survive... only how we live now, and where we came from are so vastly different, that maybe the evolutionary preprogramming is actually a hindrance at this point.

Has the mind evolved to handle the 24/7 news media cycle, and instant access to any person, or event via telecommunication and air travel...

Here is a good explanation about reality, and our perception of it.

My quibble with AI is first the idea that it will be free of the biases of its creators, I do not see how that will be possible. Second would be the problem of a possibly amoral utilitarian being with no for sure common sense trusted with governing decisions.

[Cyberowl]

So being AGAINST the CIA, IMF, world bank etc. is now a CONSERVATIVE point of view?

Kids, go back to sleep, it shows that you have never cared for politics before Trump, lmao. They have been core to liberal politics for decades now.

[Theodarzna]

So being AGAINST the CIA, IMF, world bank etc. is now a CONSERVATIVE point of view?

Kids, go back to sleep, it shows that you have never cared for politics before Trump, lmao. They have been core to liberal politics for decades now.

At this juncture it seems only the far right and what remains of the Left, the real one, voice such issues. But most republicans and democrats jack themselves off to such institutions now.

[primalmatter]

Anyone who's in any way informed about any issue knows that all problems have many "solutions". The problem is that those solutions inevitably have secondary effects, and their utility in solving the primary issue does not outweigh that.

For instance, take crime. One "solution" to issues like recidivism, or getting away with crimes due to lack of evidence, is just to straight-up kill everyone suspected of a crime. You might've killed your wife? BLAM. You got into a fight at a bar? Can't tell which of you started it, so BLAM, BLAM. Jaywalking? MOTHERFUCKING BLAM.

This is obviously a ridiculous solution that nobody would take seriously, because the secondary effects (the deaths of so many innocents) far outweighs any value of the solution itself in addressing the problem (since if everyone's dead, there's no way you can re-offend, nor get away with a crime you're suspected of).

It's those secondary effects that are key to most of these discussions, and conservatives are often so focused on the primary issue they won't consider secondary effects at all. Or if they do, their real motives become clear. Like when they say that they want to "stop illegal immigration, because breaking the law to get here is bad", and you propose a short and easy path to citizenship and amnesty for those already here, and that's suddenly not a solution. It is a solution to the problem, but it doesn't address their secondary purpose, which is to harass and punish immigrants, particularly Central/South American ones.

Its less about punishing immigrants and more about not believing in magic.

To clarify that. We have a very select need for unskilled labor one that we currently exceed by a large margin with the current population. Inviting in large groups of unkilled laborers does nothing but diminish the livelihood of those who are currently citizens.

The world shrinks everyday it fall under the principal of spaceship earth. We live with finite resources to invite everyone in would lead to disaster.

[Cyberowl]

At this juncture it seems only the far right and what remains of the Left, the real one, voice such issues. But most republicans and democrats jack themselves off to such institutions now.

To be fair, when I say liberal and left wing, I'm talking about the European version. Tsipras and Co., not "conservatives who don't have the balls to go all on" aka Democrat. :P

[Kraenen]

If it means being homophobic or racist is out of the public sphere and into the margins of society that's a good thing in itself. However it's rarely that simple. We should expect the same ostracizing and fear-mongering against anyone speaking slightly to the conservative angle - I won't be surprised if not wanting to see two men have anal sex is tightly associated with homophobia. Neither will I be surprised when someone skeptical of exponential demographic changes is unjustifiably labelled a racist.

[Thepersona]

You tell that to families on minimum wage. Any increase in income makes a world of difference.

Minimum wage is related to workers rights. Those rights were eviscerated by conservatives. Stop talking nonsense

[Xeones]

Going to guess this is in relation to Trump and the third of the nation that worships him. But what exactly is counter culture?

A counterculture (also written counter-culture) is a subculture whose values and norms of behavior differ substantially from those of mainstream society, often in opposition to mainstream cultural mores.

Yep, a resurgence in racism does differ substantially from current mainstream society.

[Macaquerie]

Going to guess this is in relation to Trump and the third of the nation that worships him. But what exactly is counter culture?

A counterculture (also written counter-culture) is a subculture whose values and norms of behavior differ substantially from those of mainstream society, often in opposition to mainstream cultural mores.

Yep, a resurgence in racism does differ substantially from current mainstream society.

I guess the implication here is that conservatives somehow became the "cool kids" sticking it to the man and playing by their own rules, while liberals are fussy, stuck up, and out of touch. For one thing, counterculture has basically been commercialized since the 1960s, so there hasn't been any meaningful distinction between it and mainstream society for quite some time. And if there's anyone who's going to break that mold it certainly won't be conservatives, since it's pretty difficult to make a cultural impact when you routinely shit on anything artistic and creative as being pointless.

[Wyrt]

How? The US is overwhelmingly conservative. Both our major political parties are conservatives.

Or by conservative do you mean the neo-nazi/alt-reich/KKK Trump supporters? Because those aren't conservatives, they're just fucking lunatics.

[Milchshake]

How? The US is overwhelmingly conservative. Both our major political parties are conservatives.

Or by conservative do you mean the neo-nazi/alt-reich/KKK Trump supporters? Because those aren't conservatives, they're just fucking lunatics.

Americans are prone to amnesia about history. Also the modern right in America loves to dodge labels. Like how the Heritage Foundation uses a bland name to disguise its policies as mostly Tax Cuts for Rich and Anti Gay Rights Foundation.

The Alt_Right is trying to disguise their fascism as counter culture now. It's easier to recruit members (who suck at political history) and get YouTube views under an ambiguous label.

This also also ticks a few boxes of Umberto Ecco's 14 features of Fascism:

1. The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”

2. The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”

3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”

4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”

5. Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”

6. Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”

7. The obsession with a plot. “The followers must feel besieged. The easiest way to solve the plot is the appeal to xenophobia.”

8. The humiliation by the wealth and force of their enemies. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”

9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”

10. Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”

11. Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”

12. Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”

13. Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”

14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”

[Xeones]

How? The US is overwhelmingly conservative. Both our major political parties are conservatives.

Or by conservative do you mean the neo-nazi/alt-reich/KKK Trump supporters? Because those aren't conservatives, they're just fucking lunatics.

No, they think they are the real conservatives.

They are so far to the right that they think people like McCain and Graham are rinos (republican in name only).

He clearly thinks the alt-right movement is a counter culture, and technically he isn't wrong since they are against everyone who isn't one of them.

[Felya]

They are trying... punk has been trying to root them out from the start...

https://youtu.be/-MkRuV0aCcI
https://youtu.be/hT1OKo1rT84
https://youtu.be/1Tlwf9A1ivc
https://youtu.be/lA4PDxnpn4U

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitl...,_Vandals_Good

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oi!

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No, they think they are the real conservatives.

They are so far to the right that they think people like McCain and Graham are rinos (republican in name only).

He clearly thinks the alt-right movement is a counter culture, and technically he isn't wrong since they are against everyone who isn't one of them.

He is talking about 4Chan alt-right, KKK and Nazis... who are explicitly counter culture.

[Theodarzna]

To be fair, when I say liberal and left wing, I'm talking about the European version. Tsipras and Co., not "conservatives who don't have the balls to go all on" aka Democrat. :P

Europe still has some holdouts clinging to life. Slavoj Žižek and Tsipras are shining example, but I fear even in Europe a lot of simply bent the knee to Neo-Liberalism and come to love "The System" just as it has done in the States. But Europe has some determined hold outs who may be the seeds of a revival.

In America, the desire for change is going to be found on the right, and not necessarily always change many would ever like. In America however the Democrats are dead in the water as a Milquetoast center-right party that just stands for whatever marginal and meaningless cause celebre call-out-clap-back culture issue of the month. If anything they are just republicans without Tumblr.

- - - Updated - - -

I admit it would be hard to know if it has a bias or not... but there are ways to measure it. Hopefully, it would not fall prey to things like confirmation bias, or the sunk cost fallacy; a lot of logical traps humans tend to fall prey to, usually without being aware of it.

Possibly. But that would be the ultimate irony. In the age of God being dead and we having killed him, we then decide to build a new God to be our master.

[xChurch]

Sure I guess...in the sense that more often than not current conservatives are simply contrarian. I wish the idea that everything needs a left and right answer would go away, not every truth comes in a chocolate and vanilla variety.