"Gogogo!!!", or "You pull, you tank"

[Deleted]

That's interesting. Never realized that could be the case. The more different views I hear, the more one understand how hard it is to be a game designer aiming for a good experience for everyone. I mean, if I designed a game, that scenario would not have been thought about 'til you said it.

The most amazing thing was that this guy was by no means stupid IRL. He was a super smart scientist; can't remember his exact specialization, but it went way above my head. He wasn't even that old -- late 30s or early 40s. To have a guy like this unable to figure out his own character in a computer game was something so incomprehensible to me that it just left me dumbstruck.

He also was never able to learn out of keyboard turning.

[xindralol]

I used to do that as a healer all the time, as well! Way back in BC, i used to Lacerate AoE tank. I never understood how tanks, with the AoE and threat they were given, pull so damn slow.

I used to cringe when i get a Male Human Protection Paladin. It was always, "Ok, this is going to take an extra thirty minutes to complete!"

Palas were so neat. I remember sometime during TBC I was healing SH on my pala and like the group wiped (I think the melee mobs can kick and you get feared etc so it's super aids (curse of tongues?) if you do a bad pull - but anyway my spec included redoubt (increases block chance iirc) and I think a bonus armor talent so when we wiped I had no problem swapping to devotion aura and spamming fol on myself and survived until everyone ran back. Just an interesting memory.

The taunt was awkward (would taunt everything that was attacking your friendly target) and the bonus damage / stun(?) shit that only affected undead haha ... <3 oldschool paladins.

[Stormspark]

Tank is in the right.

[PragmaticGamer]

As someone who ONLY does DPS, I say the tank is in the right.

There are two people in the dungeon group who determine the pace: the tank and the healer. They know what they can handle, and pushing them to take on more than they can handle will simply lead to a wipe. As they get more comfortable with their roles and more familiar with the dungeon, they can handle more. But that's for them to decide, not for someone who is used to being carried by overgeared (and very generous) raiders.

If DPSers want to determine the pace of the run, they should find a guild or a group of friends suited to their abilities, and join with them. But they should understand that the rudeness displayed to strangers in a PUG will not work with long-term guildies.

[Googolplex]

The Hunter is to blame imo.

[gonzajd777]

i use to wait that the dps died, then i taunt... that way ppl look they fucked up
other way he ll never change that stupid behavior and i will stay on the group...
i am the tank, i know what i can handle. if you dont like it, get another tank or leave... dps are veeery replaceble

- - - Updated - - -

As someone who ONLY does DPS, I say the tank is in the right.

There are two people in the dungeon group who determine the pace: the tank and the healer. They know what they can handle, and pushing them to take on more than they can handle will simply lead to a wipe. As they get more comfortable with their roles and more familiar with the dungeon, they can handle more. But that's for them to decide, not for someone who is used to being carried by overgeared (and very generous) raiders.

If DPSers want to determine the pace of the run, they should find a guild or a group of friends suited to their abilities, and join with them. But they should understand that the rudeness displayed to strangers in a PUG will not work with long-term guildies.

+100000

[PragmaticGamer]

In M+, sure. In normal and heroic if dps can solo stuff that is not the case
.

Then the DPS can go into Group Finder and create their own group.

I'm talking about PUGs, where people of random skill level and playstyles are tossed together. You could get a novice tank, who's slowly feeling out how to be a tank. Or, as I've been lucky on occasion, a tank that's so outgeared the content that you can pretty much tag along while they kill stuff. (I had one where I was hard-pressed to keep up with the tank, he killed almost all of the Court of Stars by himself.)

If people think they can push a button to get exactly the sort of group they want, that's ridiculous. Put in the effort to get into the perfect group, or just accept that you're not going to get everything you want.

[Jaylock]

Tank is in the right.

False.

That is an outdated and archaic way of thinking in an MMO these days. It is the tanks responsibility to hold aggro R.E.G.A.R.D.L.E.S.S. of how the mobs were pulled. End of story.

[Kazlofski]

My fav attitude is:

"I will drag the boss out of the fire, but f* melee, they should stand in it if they want to DPS the boss"

Love those tanks that never think a little bit ahead.

[Sansnom]

It's the tanks JOB to tank shit REGARDLESS of how it was aggroed.

It is not the tank jobs to tank at the pace dictated by others.

That kind of mindset is unacceptable in LFD and LFR imo.

And the action of the "gogogo" DPS rogue is? If the DPS wants to go faster, how about asking first?

[-Joker-]

In my day, the tank set the pace of the dungeon regardless of how fast the DPS wanted to move, and the healer always had the tank's six and would let DPS die if they ran off to pull or do their own thing.

[Deleted]

You spank it, you tank it.

If you get an experienced tank and ditto healer in a PUG, then expect to die a *lot* if you start ninja pulling. No excuses accepted. Period. Full stop.

As a reasonably experienced PUG healer I can say with some confidence that it is pretty rare that a tank pulls slowly just to be a (posterior). Also, as to the 'What was the healer doing?' question: He was probably letting the ninja puller die. In many places, like The Arcway, the trash *will* wipe a PUG, if people are not on top of interrupts and dispels (healer). If the tank pulls slowly, then it may just be because he realizes that the deeps are too busy dps'ing and not doing their interrupts. Thus pulling more at a time would almost certainly just be a wipe.

Had a WW monk earlier today, who pulled *everything* in front of the bridge at the first boss (to the 'right' of the entrance) in The Arcway. Instant wipe. Tank then nicely asked people to please let him pull. Monk continued ninja pulling. Healer (*cough*) suddenly experienced serious trouble with healing said monk. Monk died a lot on this run.

[Deleted]

In M+, sure. In normal and heroic if dps can solo stuff that is not the case
.

Then they should solo and not die like the stupid rogue. What happened, did he not have evasion or such on his action bars, oder was he so bad with damage, and forgot to vanish? If I pull shit on my rogue before the tank, I use ToT to misdirect, and also am ready to pull CDs.

- - - Updated - - -

You spank it, you tank it.

If you get an experienced tank and ditto healer in a PUG, then expect to die a *lot* if you start ninja pulling. No excuses accepted. Period. Full stop.

As a reasonably experienced PUG healer I can say with some confidence that it is pretty rare that a tank pulls slowly just to be a (posterior). Also, as to the 'What was the healer doing?' question: He was probably letting the ninja puller die. In many places, like The Arcway, the trash *will* wipe a PUG, if people are not on top of interrupts and dispels (healer). If the tank pulls slowly, then it may just be because he realizes that the deeps are too busy dps'ing and not doing their interrupts. Thus pulling more at a time would almost certainly just be a wipe.

Had a WW monk earlier today, who pulled *everything* in front of the bridge at the first boss (to the 'right' of the entrance) in The Arcway. Instant wipe. Tank then nicely asked people to please let him pull. Monk continued ninja pulling. Healer (*cough*) suddenly experienced serious trouble with healing said monk. Monk died a lot on this run.

I also refuse to heal people who stand in shit, especially if I tell them to move out, even the tank if the DPS are capable to finish the trash without him. Some people only learn through pain.

[Shakou]

Situation: RDF, tank going at his pace, rogue decides it's not fast enough, goes pulling packs, tank gives no f*cks, rogue dies, rogue throws tantrum, tank says "You pull, you tank".


Question: Who's in the right?

I mean it depends on the content, but if it's not trivial bs and requires at least some amount of effort and planning, then the tank. The rogue (or whatever other dps is intentionally pulling shit thinking they can "speed things up") can fuck right off and there is only one way to teach them. No doubt the same stupid shit rogue doesn't know how to use kick or a stun in m+ so they're basically not even contributing as they should be anyways.

If it's your key and you're playing like shit and ninja pulling? I'm going to leave if it's really bad because chances are I joined for chance at titanforges and some ap only, so if it's not a smooth and complete bullshit free run (which it would be if you followed my lead) you can fuck right off.

If it's my key, umm why the fuck is silence penalty even a thing when people can intentionally grief same faction players with impunity? Cuz if you're doing something that's not okay and I ask you to stop, and it's causing us problems, even wiping us you're a griefer and by all rights you should be banned for some period of time for it, but Blizzard doesn't work that way anymore. You can grief all you want, but get pissed off tell a dude to fuck off? You're probably getting silenced.

But whatever, depending on how bad the situation is I'll probably ask the other players if they wanna downgrade the key and re run with someone else, and if not I'll leave but either way I'm going to be pissed. I do absolutely nothing to fuck up other people's runs. After doing these dungeons hundreds of times, unless it is a really high lvl key I've never attempted before or something it's all muscle memory, I pull what we can handle with no problems, the healer never has to drink pretty much and we just keep going at a steady pace. So when people do it to me I respond by letting them die. If the healer insists on healing dps that do that, at some point I am going to pull more than you can handle without me and dipout.

My fun as the tank is tanking. If you are not the tank your job is to heal or dps, and cc /interrupt things you are asked to or know you should, period. That's it. Pulling, positioning? Being aware of the groups overall dynamics and ability and so forth and know what they can handle or not? That's the tanks job. If you've never tanked before in any significant amounts you know absolutely nothing about that, and you don't even realize that's happening every step of the way when you have a good tank because it's so smooth you don't even realize the tank is there.

[Deleted]

I mean it depends on the content, but if it's not trivial bs and requires at least some amount of effort and planning, then the tank. The rogue (or whatever other dps is intentionally pulling shit thinking they can "speed things up") can fuck right off and there is only one way to teach them. No doubt the same stupid shit rogue doesn't know how to use kick or a stun in m+ so they're basically not even contributing as they should be anyways.

If it's your key and you're playing like shit and ninja pulling? I'm going to leave if it's really bad because chances are I joined for chance at titanforges and some ap only, so if it's not a smooth and complete bullshit free run (which it would be if you followed my lead) you can fuck right off.

If it's my key, umm why the fuck is silence penalty even a thing when people can intentionally grief same faction players with impunity? Cuz if you're doing something that's not okay and I ask you to stop, and it's causing us problems, even wiping us you're a griefer and by all rights you should be banned for some period of time for it, but Blizzard doesn't work that way anymore. You can grief all you want, but get pissed off tell a dude to fuck off? You're probably getting silenced.

But whatever, depending on how bad the situation is I'll probably ask the other players if they wanna downgrade the key and re run with someone else, and if not I'll leave but either way I'm going to be pissed. I do absolutely nothing to fuck up other people's runs. After doing these dungeons hundreds of times, unless it is a really high lvl key I've never attempted before or something it's all muscle memory, I pull what we can handle with no problems, the healer never has to drink pretty much and we just keep going at a steady pace. So when people do it to me I respond by letting them die. If the healer insists on healing dps that do that, at some point I am going to pull more than you can handle without me and dipout.

My fun as the tank is tanking. If you are not the tank your job is to heal or dps, and cc /interrupt things you are asked to or know you should, period. That's it. Pulling, positioning? Being aware of the groups overall dynamics and ability and so forth and know what they can handle or not? That's the tanks job. If you've never tanked before in any significant amounts you know absolutely nothing about that, and you don't even realize that's happening every step of the way when you have a good tank because it's so smooth you don't even realize the tank is there.

Thing is, I also have fun with tanking. But this also means that I want to be in control. If DPS pull shit randomly, then they deserve to die if my skills are on CD and they are too dumb / bad to finish what they have started. If they don't respect me when playing and don't pay attention, then they deserve no better from my side.

[Shakou]

Thing is, I also have fun with tanking. But this also means that I want to be in control. If DPS pull shit randomly, then they deserve to die if my skills are on CD and they are too dumb / bad to finish what they have started. If they don't respect me when playing and don't pay attention, then they deserve no better from my side.

ya exactly, I like having control when I am the tank, it is about that. BUT I feel like I'm very responsible and respectful with what I do with that. I am very aware of my surroundings and numerous tactics and what to do with what comps and what not to do and so on. So When someone interrupts my flow and it turns into a shit show I'm not in the best mood. And as it turns out the majority of bad runs I have had come down to people's attitudes, be respectful and don't do stupid shit when you're pugging and you'll mainly have a good time.

[Deleted]

ya exactly, I like having control when I am the tank, it is about that. BUT I feel like I'm very responsible and respectful with what I do with that. I am very aware of my surroundings and numerous tactics and what to do with what comps and what not to do and so on. So When someone interrupts my flow and it turns into a shit show I'm not in the best mood. And as it turns out the majority of bad runs I have had come down to people's attitudes, be respectful and don't do stupid shit when you're pugging and you'll mainly have a good time.

Well usually I don't pug content which I could not handle with a random group, and I usually just pick up mobs - especially if I see that DPS and heal can both handle that. This is fine, besides that I usually also pull constantly so my group does not idle. It's not that I don't want to get through the dungeon quickly. But I also want to have a smooth run, especially when occasional wipes lead to spending more time in the dungeon then pulling fewer mobs but steadily. And I want to have my "oh shit buttons" ready for real emergencies, not for some obnoxious DPS who is a jerk instead of just whispering me to go faster in a polite way.

[Zephire]

The most amazing thing was that this guy was by no means stupid IRL. He was a super smart scientist; can't remember his exact specialization, but it went way above my head. He wasn't even that old -- late 30s or early 40s. To have a guy like this unable to figure out his own character in a computer game was something so incomprehensible to me that it just left me dumbstruck.

He also was never able to learn out of keyboard turning.

Being good at one thing doesn't mean you're good at other things. This is very true in niched areas. I've been to companies with programmers who'd one would think could handle a computer decently. However, some of them only understand coding languages and not how a computer work, like, some could be really bad with computers. It's okay but surprising :P

[zeoos]

Whenever I'm tanking, If a dps goes ahead and pulls something and we didn't wipe, I don't mind, I just pick the adds up and tank them. I do this only if the add packs pulled are neccesary for clearing the way.
I remember in DHT on a random HC, you take a left after first adds and climb some rocks to skip the cats. Well, a rogue decided he is smarter and sprinted and grabbed like 20 mobs then sprinted to me with them. Well, I Shadowmelded, let him die and my group voted to kick him, then we proceeded onwards.
In myhic+ I never have this problem, either I pull the right amount of mobs or the people are not rushed jackasses.

[zeoos]

I don't think he even knew his abilities, he just ran like a headless monkey.
I had the "You pull you tank" mentality when I started tanking but I found that is just a waste of time to argue with idiots.
If you pull and I can handle it and it doesn't wipe the group, we are good.