Why does T20 only have 9 bosses?

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Its a short tier, but the fights were considerably difficult so it took even longer than normal to clear.

[Spotnick]

Because they did new dungeons.

So your other encounters are there, like it or not.

That's the difference.

TOS + Cathedral gives you the amount of bosses you were looking for.

[Deleted]

EN and nighthold do not share gear or tier gear. You can want them to be a part of the same tier all you want, but that's not the way Blizzard sees it. Just know that

Except they do. The gear in EN uses the same appearance as NH, meaning the non-tier version of the equipment. If you want the full transmog set you'll need to run both raids. It's the same gear mate, it's the same achievement, it's the same development and beta testing, just know that.

As I told the other poster, I find it odd that you would be willing to accept EN as its own raid tier when it doesn't even have a tier set and only 7 bosses. Tell me, would you be upset if Blizzard only made new tier sets every second raid and reused the gear on the other? Seems like you would be fine with it.

Furthermore, Blizzard consideres ToS to have been released in 7.2, not 7.2.5, and the Burning Throne in 7.3, not 7.3.5 even though they were not made available to the players at the time. Using the same logic, Nighthold was released with 7.0, not 7.1.5, making it part of the same tier set as Emerald Nightmare.

Just know that.

[FelPlague]

Raid tiers in the last 5 years have had an average of 15 raid bosses per tier. However the latest tier, T20, is 40% below average, with only 9 raid bosses.

T20 - 9 bosses
T19 - 20 bosses
T18 - 13 bosses
T17 - 17 bosses
T16 - 14 bosses
T15 - 12 bosses
T14 - 16 bosses

And this trend seems to be continuing with T21 which is only offering a pitiful 11 raid bosses. Which should be very alarming for any raider out there.

What is the reason for the sudden reduction in raid content? What is Blizzard planning to do to rectify this situation?

wat ?

ToS - 9 bosses (t-20)
Nighthold - 10 bosses (t-19)
ToV - 3 bosses (t-18.6... kinda)
Emerald Nightmare - 7 bosses (t-18.5)
HFC - 13 bosses - (t-18)
BRF - 10 bosses - (t-17)
Highmaul - 7 bosses (t-16.5)
SOO - 14 bosses - (t-16)
ToT - 12(13) bosses - (t-15)
HoF, ToES - 10 bosses - (t-14)
Mogu'shan Vaults - 6 bosses - (t-13.5)

what that dude said, but he didnt qoute you, so i doubt you would read it
to befair i doubt you will read it anyways because then you would be wrong, and you dont want that do you?

[Tech614]

To each his own, I think Trial of Valor has the best encounters in Legion raiding (Well Odyn and Helya to be exact, Guarm is meh of course)

Odyn and Helya are both trash fights that just try to rehash all of their 5 man mechanics, this time with more aids. Guarm is actually the best fight in there from a design perspective(and that's not saying much...).

It's clear very little work went into ToV.

[Doomchicken]

Odyn and Helya are both trash fights that just try to rehash all of their 5 man mechanics, this time with more aids. Guarm is actually the best fight in there from a design perspective(and that's not saying much...).

It's clear very little work went into ToV.

rehash huh? Odd. I don't recall remembering needing to soak tenticle slams, dodge orbs, soak the breath which spawns the blobs that you need to kill, kill multitude of skeleton adds while getting out of the watery area as well as kill two larger adds in the dungeon. It's almost like you're talking out of your ass.

[Tech614]

kill two larger adds in the dungeon

You mean the 2 larger mobs that are trash mobs in Maw of Souls? With the same mechanics and a lot more health/damage?

Yea about that whole ass pulling thing. Have fun joining the ignore list, if you enjoy rehashed paint jobs more power to you. Raid was shit, and the lowest possible effort they could put into a raid ever. Even Nax rehash was better.

[Doomchicken]

You mean the 2 larger mobs that are trash mobs in Maw of Souls? With the same mechanics and a lot more health/damage?

Yea about that whole ass pulling thing. Have fun joining the ignore list, if you enjoy rehashed paint jobs more power to you. Raid was shit, and the lowest possible effort they could put into a raid ever. Even Nax rehash was better.

You know you've won when you're added to the ignore list because your opponent has no actual good comeback. 8)

[Narveid]

Odyn and Helya are both trash fights that just try to rehash all of their 5 man mechanics, this time with more aids. Guarm is actually the best fight in there from a design perspective(and that's not saying much...).

It's clear very little work went into ToV.

From a design perspective according to who? You? And what is that worth? Why would anyone care?

If anything, I'd say Odyn and Helya are great fights for making dungeon mechanics into recognisable raid mechanics. And yes, we all know ToV was a raid quickly put in to fill a hole (literally a filler raid). I still enjoyed it.

[Deleted]

what that dude said, but he didnt qoute you, so i doubt you would read it
to befair i doubt you will read it anyways because then you would be wrong, and you dont want that do you?

I don't know what version of Nighthold with 20 bosses he has been raiding...

"raid tiers" is thing of the past when almost every new raid introduced new raiding tier sets. And since Mists, we are getting introductionary raids in the start of the expansion.

Also, there has been raids with even fewer bosses than ToS or Antorus. 9-11 is fine (pun not intended) 12+ is starting to be too much

[Doomchicken]

But anyway, since I figured you haven't enjoyed a thorough enough destruction of your arguments lets break down this post a little more.

You mean the 2 larger mobs that are trash mobs in Maw of Souls? With the same mechanics and a lot more health/damage.

While the lantern guy does the same thing, the other big guy does a large aoe that does a fuck ton of damage and adds a debuff that makes the tank tanking that add take extra damage. The maw of souls one doesn't do that. At all. On any difficulty. So, wrong there already. Helya herself also summons skeletons that fixate that add a stacking dot and drop a puddle of shit when they die. The dungeon ones don't do that either. So...failed on that one too I'm afraid.

and the lowest possible effort they could put into a raid ever. Even Nax rehash was better.

Lets play a game of comparisons! New mechanics between naxx 2.0 and new mechanics for ToV versus Maw of souls/halls of valor.

Naxx 2.0. Errm....none. No new mechanics. At all. If I missed any feel free to correct me though. They obviously changed a couple mechanics to account for the lower raid numbers and that's pretty much it...OH and they changed one of the horseman due to lore reasons. Yay?

ToV: Odyn: Standing in the aoe circle around hymdall does a fuckton of damage on all difficulties, that mechanic wasn't in HOV. Hyrjas shield needs to be soaked with more people split to lessen the damage instead of tank only. Phase 3 with the electified floors, tornados, spears on tanks that need to be outdistanced as much as possible and on mythic more sigils where you have to stack with people the same sigil as you or you take extra damage. None of those mechanics were in the dungeon.

All of guarms mechanics are new so that fight alone is making your argument invalid.
Helya as my previous post adds tentacles that need to have their slams soaked, a tank armor = zero debuff, blobs that need to be killed, the add changes above, the crashing waves, the healing absorb debuff on the tank in phase 3 and that's all the shit I remember off the top of my head. But yeah. They put in less effort than naxx. Cool argument bro.

[Mcbenchpress]

since when ToV, EN, Highmaul and Mogu'shan drop tier pieces ??? Enlighten me please.

They were introductionary raids, NOT tier raids

In what world do you consider Helya an introductory raid boss? She was the hardest boss of this expansion until Avatar/KJ came out.

[Beelzabi]

Although many have sadi that quantity isn't exactly quality, and I agree with that, quantity is important too.

Many of you may remember Firelands as a good raid, but it had a problem with quantity. many were bitching because it only had 7 bosses, and it was a problem because they cut off Abyssal Maw. It was good,but it was also one of he reasons Cata sucked, because they rushed Dragon Soul, one of the worst raids.

[Siraeyou]

T12 had 7 bosses and T13 had 8 bosses. So what's your point? Yes cata was 2011 mainly but the amount of bosses to an instance is dependant on the lore of the raid we are attacking. No point in putting in a bugger load of bosses "because quantity matters"..... I'd rather have quality bosses that represent the LORE.

Let's not forget tier 9 had 5 bosses in it. Good old TotC

Also why do we not include World Bosses introduced per patch as tier bosses? Do they not drop tier level competitive gear and also require a raid to kill (granted easily accomplished via LFG)

[Deleted]

In what world do you consider Helya an introductory raid boss? She was the hardest boss of this expansion until Avatar/KJ came out.

That's why raid tiers are just a player made concept... ToV was a filler raid

Wow no longer works in this "tier" style

They can introduce small 1-3 boss raids in betweem big raids if it fits the lore/setting

[enak101]

Another thing to keep in mind is difficulty.

TOS was an odd one as the first 7 had only 1 somewhat challenging boss and then 2 very difficult bosses.

Doesn't matter if you have 15 bosses if they are all pushovers or not interesting or not lore flavorful etc.

I'm talking more from a progression point of view but yea theres a few reasons it doesn't really matter that much.

[Deleted]

Except they do. The gear in EN uses the same appearance as NH, meaning the non-tier version of the equipment. If you want the full transmog set you'll need to run both raids. It's the same gear mate, it's the same achievement, it's the same development and beta testing, just know that.

As I told the other poster, I find it odd that you would be willing to accept EN as its own raid tier when it doesn't even have a tier set and only 7 bosses. Tell me, would you be upset if Blizzard only made new tier sets every second raid and reused the gear on the other? Seems like you would be fine with it.

Furthermore, Blizzard consideres ToS to have been released in 7.2, not 7.2.5, and the Burning Throne in 7.3, not 7.3.5 even though they were not made available to the players at the time. Using the same logic, Nighthold was released with 7.0, not 7.1.5, making it part of the same tier set as Emerald Nightmare.

Just know that.

Could you give me an example of the same gear dropping?

Edit: not suprised