why crucible is stupid

[kamuimac]

Devs said they made crudible to lessen the disparity between good and bad relics, in reality the difference between best case scenario and worst case scenario are even bigger. Got trash bonus relic on all 3 relics (don't want bis only one of the best 4), and bad t2-s too. I had good relics on all 3 slots, now i have 3 trash relic in my weapon lulz. (t2 bonuses gives more dps than the +ilvl or bonus trait tho, that was a big mistake).

i jut love how people got " free "dps upgrade and are complaining because its just an upgrade and not bis upgrade

just priceless

you got dps buff feel happy intead nitpicking that its "only" 20k gain instead 40k gain (just guessing no idea what values it provides"

[Teph]

i jut love how people got " free "dps upgrade and are complaining because its just an upgrade and not bis upgrade

just priceless

you got dps buff feel happy intead nitpicking that its "only" 20k gain instead 40k gain (just guessing no idea what values it provides"

If everyone gets a "free" dps upgrade and you get the worst one it's a nerf, not an upgrade. Stop missing the point.

[Achilles55]

i jut love how people got " free "dps upgrade and are complaining because its just an upgrade and not bis upgrade

just priceless

you got dps buff feel happy intead nitpicking that its "only" 20k gain instead 40k gain (just guessing no idea what values it provides"

Are you trolling or are you actually retarded?
Infracted

[Deleted]

iam angry, like emotionally angry, which is the second time in 9y wow career.

take ur wrath to the official forums, flood them with ur contempt, for Crucible shall not succeed!
we have to bring bzzd back to reason, just try to imagine the next "idea"! maybe stats wont be fixed, but rolled on looting...

[Guyv3r]

It's just another Diablofication of WoW.

Making you farm relic after relic after relic for months so you can try to get the best stats and upgrades.

[Deleted]

I love that Blizzard isn't catering to us hardcore Mythic raiders anymore. We're honestly not worth catering to. There are so few of us comparatively, and we're going to play WoW regardless of what Blizzard does because there is no game that even compares in terms of PvE. Good for them doing stuff that's actually good for the game by appealing to casuals.

I am a casual and I don't like this system either. Too much RNG in loot.

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That too. It feels like added bloat to a progression and gearing system that is already quite bloated in the first place (good stats + set bonuses + legendaries + good trinkets + AP). That it relies so much on RNG, and that you don't even know if a piece is good before you loot it, really makes it entirely unnecessary. Even as a soft nerf it just feels unwelcome, Concordance was a better system.

Exactly, because Concordance has a fixed correlation of effort and reward. You can calculate the amount of time and effort you have to put into your next upgrade. Sometimes you can speed it up if you get some random extras, but in this case, the random extras are a nice thing to be glad about.

In the case of RNG upgrades and stats though, you have disappointment as the base feeling of the reward system, at least as soon as the "honeymoon" of the first weeks wears off and you reach a kind of a plateau where the chances for a useful random upgrade become much less than the chance for a useless random upgrade.

Incredible how many people don't get this.

[Shakou]

OP, nobody has at all done any significant number crunching on NLC traits. The one thing we can be absolutely sure of is that they are all trivial upgrades at best.

Y'all that are complaining are doing it because Blizzard put a system into the game that gives you an upgrade you don't even need to have. It's just something for you to tinker with and keep you busy. That's it. Get real. You do not need anything remotely close to the absolutely best of the best of the best of the best everything to clear all content in this game, and if you actually manage to have that before you clear you're not bleeding edge anyways so frankly no one but other whiners cares what you think.

Also if you're saying that the NLC does not improve the majority of relics you are 100% completely full of shit, you have a guaranteed chance that a relic with your bis trait, a good one, or a shitty trait will proc another good one, and a 50% chance that a relic without your bis will proc it. I have 6 toons, I have fucked around a lot with this thing you are completely exaggerating the downside to it.

Relics and artifact traits and all that were marginal upgrades from the beginning anyways, so if you're uppity about them now you obviously just don't like artifact weapons.

[ingsve]

1 point in a T2 trait grants you about 6 to 24k dps
so having the weakest t2 trait across all 3 relics will grant you 18k dps, and having the best will grant u 72k dps.

now lets look at dps gain from relic ilvl

upgrading a 930 relic to 935 is about 10k dps gain.

a 930 relic with godly crucible traits is worth +72k dps
a 935 relic however with the worst traits is worth about +28k* dps (10k from 930->935 and 18k from having worst trait across all 3)

see what issues we will be running into?

this basically means that a 955 relic can be worse than a 930 relic.

Your example will literally never happen though. You won't ever be stuck with the worst 2nd tier trait because you always have 2 choices, Light or Shadow. The worst scenario is if you get the worst Light trait to choose from and the worst shadow trait to choose from in the same relic and that will only happen 3% of the time. What also factors in is what 3rd tier trait you get and that also leaves you with 2 choices.

What will happen most of the time is that when you get a new relic the tier 2 and tier 3 traits will give you slightly higher than the average DPS so in your example it would roughly mean 50k DPS upgrade on average for tier 2.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

Wait, on bis relic you can get random bad crucible bonus?

[Deleted]

I love the crucible.

1) Unlocks account wide, this is just amazing really. Like really amazing for those that want to casually play alts.
2) Makes gaining artifact power fun again. Concordance might be a decent boost to output but it's boring as fuck on its own.
3) Procs are always fun, who doesn't love a good proc?

Also, to those complaining - you've just been handed 15 ilvl's to your weapon. For free.

[Hahyestwo]

But it doesn't appeal to casuals. Making more interesting/fun content would appeal to casuals. More puzzles, treasure hunts, one-off scenarios, story, pet development, crafting improvements, etc.

This exists solely to alter throughput and there is a very clear "best" and it's a big difference to be "best" vs "shit" and the difference is overcome slowly by winning the RNG lottery repeatedly. Casuals don't care about throughput because their gear isn't even full 930+ or properly itemized, nor do they likely even have BiS relics. Their weapon isn't at 67 points already. If they cared to grind to RNG their way into this, they wouldn't be casuals.

The crucible doesn't appeal to anyone, it's just another retarded time sink. Blizzard / 10.

This is so true. I've been on both sides of the 'casual' and 'raider' fence, and a system like this sucks for both sides. And yes, there are casual min/maxers, I have no idea why people can't grasp that concept. Min/maxing is a 'thing' in MMOs and pretty much any game.

[Xirrohon]

Question. I think that I did the crucible incorrectly. This is what I mean. When I was doing the quest, I thought that I had to use a new relic to replace what was in my weapon through the crucible. I had all 915 relics in my weapon but only had 910 in my bags to use in the crucible. So, I picked the best one that I had to finish the quest.

Now, Im wondering if I could have just used what was already in my weapon? If so, then SOB! because I had best traits and higher ilvl already in my weapon! Lol

[Ponji]

And you're the one whining about people whining on this site, what does that make you?

On topic, yeah it's a pretty shitty situation, it would be fixed if we could have like a mini crucible we could carry around or something that could tell us what traits a relic would give without actually having the relic itself, the way it is now it's just gonna be a huge pain in the ass for loot councils.

I'm not complaining. I'm stating the glaringly obvious about your situation. You obviously have lost significant enjoyment with the game, and you seem to center this lack of enjoyment around the addition of an RNG feature you don't want to have to deal with. As I attempted to explain previously, you should really just stop playing the game. The developers are going to make design decisions you don't like, and voicing your pointless opinion on MMOC isn't going to facilitate change. The echo chamber here is real, and all you want is people to validate the way you feel to justify continuing to play the game angrily; incensed at the developers for their design decisions.

Don't like it? Don't play. Quit crying. EU kids just don't get it.

So because he has another opinion on the game then you, he's a cry babie?

Nope. He's a crybaby because he's whining about a new feature being added to a game he no longer enjoys because of said feature. It's pretty mundane and pathetic tbh.

You are dumb.
Simple as, there is absolutely zero reason for a system like this to exist in this game like nada.
There isn't 1 good argument as to why we are presented with this useless piece of rng crap once again when we could of had something way better.
Why remove reforging in the 1st place if you gonna introduce rng roller coasters like this shit later on.

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What the actual fuck are you talking about.
Do you realize how rng dependent this stuff is ? Do you like to play the roller coaster roulette every time you get a new relic and say to your self maybe in 10 relics i'll actually get something useful and hope that the rng gods smile on you?

Also i'm not sure wtf are you even talking about careers real life in here this is a topic about a game in a game forum where we are discussing a useless feature in a game that adds as i said nothing more then frustration.
But hey keep on going cowboy you seem to have some problem let it all out.

Your definition of a useless feature =/= the developer's definition of a useful feature. Just because you and some other plebs in on MMOC don't like the feature doesn't mean everyone shares your shortsighted opinion.

I'm fully aware of how RNG stuff is. As I've said countless times before on this site, if you don't like the design decisions stop playing the game. All you're doing by coming here is further promoting an echo chamber of whiners, like yourself. I put the real-life example in there because, lets face it, there are way more important issues to be concerned with than why the addition of an RNG-based artifact-enhancement feature is ruining your ability to enjoy World of Warcraft.

That's what the actual fuck I'm talking about Suzy Q.

[Hahyestwo]

If everyone gets a "free" dps upgrade and you get the worst one it's a nerf, not an upgrade. Stop missing the point.

This concept needs to be taught and reinforced to everyone from toddlers to politicians.

[Khallid]

OR... maybe this means instead of all the relics that drop being instantly D/E, now players leave with some hope they may prove useful.

It obviously doesn't matter if nobody wanted a relic to begin with. A bad relic will statistically be worse off anyway, crucible or not. But if it's a high level relic that many people can roll for, the crucible increases how many people will want to roll for it, for a chance at RNG.

The issue is solely related to loot distribution. It's whether or not you roll for it when it drops in a raid, because you don't know if it's better than what you have equipped. If you don't already have a perfect relic you will keep rolling on relics. And keeping rolling on relics until they roll perfectly requires a larger amount of relics to fill the whole group.

[Ebalina]

I'm not complaining. I'm stating the glaringly obvious about your situation. You obviously have lost significant enjoyment with the game, and you seem to center this lack of enjoyment around the addition of an RNG feature you don't want to have to deal with. As I attempted to explain previously, you should really just stop playing the game. The developers are going to make design decisions you don't like, and voicing your pointless opinion on MMOC isn't going to facilitate change. The echo chamber here is real, and all you want is people to validate the way you feel to justify continuing to play the game angrily; incensed at the developers for their design decisions.

Don't like it? Don't play. Quit crying. EU kids just don't get it.



Nope. He's a crybaby because he's whining about a new feature being added to a game he no longer enjoys because of said feature. It's pretty mundane and pathetic tbh.


Your definition of a useless feature =/= the developer's definition of a useful feature. Just because you and some other plebs in on MMOC don't like the feature doesn't mean everyone shares your shortsighted opinion.

I'm fully aware of how RNG stuff is. As I've said countless times before on this site, if you don't like the design decisions stop playing the game. All you're doing by coming here is further promoting an echo chamber of whiners, like yourself. I put the real-life example in there because, lets face it, there are way more important issues to be concerned with than why the addition of an RNG-based artifact-enhancement feature is ruining your ability to enjoy World of Warcraft.

That's what the actual fuck I'm talking about Suzy Q.

Suzy Q?
Wtf is a suzy q.
Oh right you run out of arguments.
Who cares if there are other things to whine about when we are here to discuss the feature of the game and i can whine all i want and not be satisfied with it.
You don't like it? Well tuff luck ma man get off your high horse and go tend to your garden.

[Rotted]

the thing is that most casuals don't know what trait is the best so they won't even know if they got lucky with rng

I'll be that guy...

Why is this even a statement? IF someone gets a lucky one or fucks up and gets rid of it how does that impact you at all? You're coming across like, it bothers you someone else gets a good one and doesn't realise it, or might get rid of it.

Replace your council with the personal loot feature

DKP FTW

[Deleted]

If everyone gets a "free" dps upgrade and you get the worst one it's a nerf, not an upgrade. Stop missing the point.

Correct. Specially considering that the NC bonuses are taken into account when it comes to balancing the next raid. @kamuimac is very lost.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

It obviously doesn't matter if nobody wanted a relic to begin with. A bad relic will statistically be worse off anyway, crucible or not.

Two of my bad relics became bis, because of the crucible.

[Khallid]

Two of my bad relics became bis, because of the crucible.

A "bad" relic cannot become "BiS". Or how are you defining a relic to be "bad"? A Bad relic is one that has a non-output trait. The crucible doesn't fix the initial trait, so it can never become a BiS.