Only 60 guilds have cleared Mythic Tomb

[Tennis]

https://www.wowprogress.com/

Is this an alltime low completion rate for a hardmode raid?

Only 60 guilds "fully" seeing content. Seems like quite the problem. Blizz needs to rethink tuning the game around Method/Exorsus.

[TOM_RUS]

Tuning has been garbage this tier indeed. All bosses need huge across the board nerfs, especially last two.
Personally they should not ever tune bosses with top 10 guilds in mind. Tuning should be done for top 500-1000 mythic guilds. This way top 10 guilds will be quickly done with content (they clear it in 1-2 weeks anyways, so nothing will change for them), while rest of guilds won't struggle/disband because of shitty tuning.

[Deja Thoris]

They've just retuned it but thanks for your deep insights as usual.

[ONCHEhap]

Tuning has been garbage this tier indeed. All bosses need huge across the board nerfs, especially last two.
Personally they should not ever tune bosses with top 10 guilds in mind. Tuning should be done for top 500-1000 mythic guilds. This way top 10 guilds will be quickly done with content (they clear it in 1-2 weeks anyways), while rest of guilds won't struggle/disband because of shitty tuning.

imo tuning as it is is fine for early in the tier,but there should be gradual nerfs over time
kinda like the ICC nerf buffs

[Tennis]

They've just retuned it but thanks for your deep insights as usual.

Not very useful when so many guilds have disbanded or didn't even bother trying progressing.

[Mrinformation]

The buffs from the crucible are a pretty big deal. We have been working on mythic avatar for a few weeks it was significantly easier yesterday.

[Wolfman31]

My guild is struggling to clear heroic Tomb. Recruitment and activity woes are far more of a problem this tier than tuning.

[A Chozo]

Probably. It is not that worthy.

[zlygork]

I am not part of the mythic raiding picture, but isn't this also affected by the fact that a significant part of ToS' timeline was during the summer?

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I'd be interested in comparing the clear rates rather than just number in isolation, like how many killed Mythic Goroth compared to Kil'Jaeden, and then comparing the started:completion rate to previous tiers, in particular WoD, the only other example of the Mythic 20 man system.
Just not right now because it's late.

[Arainie]

Tuning has been garbage this tier indeed. All bosses need huge across the board nerfs, especially last two.
Personally they should not ever tune bosses with top 10 guilds in mind. Tuning should be done for top 500-1000 mythic guilds. This way top 10 guilds will be quickly done with content (they clear it in 1-2 weeks anyways, so nothing will change for them), while rest of guilds won't struggle/disband because of shitty tuning.

Im in a 6h/week mythic guild and If it wasn't for a bad raid last week we'd be 6/9 atm. Considering we're usually around top 1500 in the world and even we don't think content is overtuned for us I'm inclined to disagree with you. Gradual nerfs are coming and all guilds that were up for Mythic Gul'dan will have a shot at KJ too.

[Volitar]

It's because titanforge gear. Before Legion it was very easy for Blizzard to predict the item level you would be starting the raid with and ending with. Now you can almost go into the raid with better gear than what drops so they have to be insanely tightly tooned. No more overgearing fights later in the tier which is why so many average guilds are having trouble.

[Gorsameth]

M: Goroth 5352
M: Demonic Inquisition 4091
M: Harjatan 4241
M: Sisters of the Moon 2775
M: Mistress Sassz'ine 989
M: The Desolate Host 2181
M: Maiden of Vigilance 601
M: Fallen Avatar 232
M: Kil'jaeden 60

The jump to Sisters is a problem.
Mistress is damn near catastrophic, cutting off 2/3 of raiders who got that far.
and by then your already. imo, in disastrously low completion territories considering the limited time left in ToS.

In comparison some 1700 guilds killed Mythic Gul'dan (cant see the exact number but we were 1692 having killed it on the final night before ToS).
This raid only has about 2 more months to go, its setting up to be bad. real bad.

[God Save The King]

There were about ~160 guilds that cleared Gul'Dan in the span of 85 days (same time since mythic ToS came out).
So kill rate seems to be around 1/3. I agree that's a bit low, but we also have to remember that the later tiers in the expansion are harder than the introductory tier.

Archimonde had about 100 kills after 85 days

Blackhand had about 300 kills after 85 days. So the ratio looks to be about the same. 1/3 of the guilds killed the second tier boss in the same time it took to clear the first tier boss.

You could argue that mythic guild (at least high end) participation is down, but that's a different conversation.

[Deleted]

Idk man. Imho there should always be goals for people who actually are looking for a challenge...even if you might not reach this goal. Bosses got nerfed, classes got buffed, new relic system should help too, more nerfs will come...so even guilds who now struggle on bosses should make progress in the coming weeks. We are also wiping our asses off on Avatar, but our raid improved a lot in terms of communication throughout our mythic progress. Especially mistress forced us to step our game up...so we went from wiping even on farm days to mostly oneshotting our way to maiden in 2 hours (which often takes a few trys just because of the nature of the encounter).

So to me a hard raid is not only a disadvantage. It can help to improve your game...which feels way more rewarding than just waiting for nerfs etc.
And if we dont kill KJ before Antorus, well, than thats just the way it is.

[akris15]

The problem with avatar and KJ up until very very recently it required class stacking to levels we haven't seen since Deathwing. Avatar practically required two rogues even after the first round of nerfs (I still don't know how Method functioned on this fight when healers could be targeted with Dark Marks that would have been extremely frustrating to deal with) and KJ required classes with blinks or high mobility to deal with several of the functions of the fight. Those classes who didn't have a consistent speed boost (ie Paladins, Priest, DK) were basically bench or in many cases made their entire team go horde (for Goblin). Even then the raw mitigation power that a Bear Druid brought plus roar and being mobile basically made bear druids required. This chart says it all (as of two weeks ago):


Sadly the clusterfuck of TOS could be contributed to two things in my opinion. First the Mythic testing development cycle was god awful this time around. They scheduled poor testing times during a period most people were still progressing. While we always complain about developers never listening to feedback there have been many changes in the past based on data feedback including mechanics. This gave them less data to work on and more on their internal development which we know they have an "invincibility code" when testing them so they couldn't check "real" numbers. Second is with the increase in production cycle to get raids out quicker shows this time around. The fight designs and mechanics didn't have the typical "Blizzard Polish". Its pretty obvious that the developers took teams in designing the fights and there was little communication involved between them. That is why there were so many soak or die mechanics, especially in regards to mythic. TOS was a failure honestly due to poor internal development which is odd and one we haven't had since Dragon Soul. It appears the same issue that caused Dragon Soul to be a disaster (Poor testing, quicken production cycle, poor allocation of development on fight mechanics) showed themselves again this time around and I hope the same fate doesn't fall to the next raid.

[MrExcelion]

KJ Nerfs went in on Tuesday, had some Avatar nerfs not too long ago. Being addressed, gradually

[Bloodmagix]

They've just retuned it but thanks for your deep insights as usual.

Retuned as in 5% KJ nerf? I don't think 5% will suddenly make a few hundred guilds kill KJ.

I don't mind the tuning personally. If it's too easy threads are just made saying it's undertuned. Also who wants to clear content in 1-2 weeks then farm for months? I like progress as long as people aren't being mongo.

[Cheze]

what is considered to be the correct number of guilds to have achieved cutting edge at this point?

[akris15]

Retuned as in 5% KJ nerf? I don't think 5% will suddenly make a few hundred guilds kill KJ.

I don't mind the tuning personally. If it's too easy threads are just made saying it's undertuned. Also who wants to clear content in 1-2 weeks then farm for months? I like progress as long as people aren't being mongo.

The issue wasn't the health, it was how the circles spawned and how several classes lacked mobility to deal with themselves getting to the proper location in time (ie a knockback right after the bullethells)