Where exactly the ''Alleria use the power of the shadows'' bit is coming from ?

[Kyux]

Firstly, I still don't buy the whole 1000 years thing. Turalyon certainly hasn't been out there for 1000 years. Alleria may have been trapped in some weird place for 1000 years separate form Turalyon, but otherwise it's hyperbole.

On topic: I don't think Alleria was ever a holy person. She was just a ranger or huntress. She's not found a powerful magic she can use against her enemy. Why not use it? She doesn't have a religion-esque belief like Turalyon does to prejudice her against using the Void. I see it as totally logical form her point of view. Also, as for the story it helps their direction a lot. It helps show how the Light is not so perfect as presented earlier in WoW, also shown in the Illidan cinematic with X'era. It's presenting the Void and Light not as good and bad, but just two different forces.

[purebalance]

So? Our characters live in a world that barely has electricity, do you really think they understand the greater machinations of the universe?

And the people who wouldn't understand it would be A and T considering we would have experienced it so it has nothing to do with understanding. Literally if the nether worked that way, we would have come back to Azeroth from Outland within minutes of leaving. It does not. Keep stabbing at crackpot counter points that make no sense to the overall discussion though.

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It's also mentioned at the start of the Marksmanship Artifact questline, by the mage who makes the portal.

And Vereesa also comments on it.



Also, the image of what the mage said, I screencapped that yesterday in case this came back up.

Except we have 3 Order halls in the nether that work just fine and don't have people thinking it was a thousand years later. Perhaps the Windrunner sisters have a brain tumor that's congenital. The fact that she could FROM WITHIN make an assertion of time in there compared to outside(which is the only way to compare it) is ludicrous. I've done the quest and it only supports the fact that time does flow just fine in the nether.

[Jester Joe]

Except we have 3 Order halls in the nether that work just fine and don't have people thinking it was a thousand years later. Perhaps the Windrunner sisters have a brain tumor that's congenital. The fact that she could FROM WITHIN make an assertion of time in there compared to outside(which is the only way to compare it) is ludicrous. I've done the quest and it only supports the fact that time does flow just fine in the nether.

A few months to even a year does not equal how long they've been in there.

And the class order halls is not somewhere people are living.

[DeicideUH]

Now, to be honest, it's not like this is against Alleria characterization.

Alleria entire characterization in WC2 was her art and 5-6 lines when selected (the art does explain the ''click emote'' Keep your gaze focused..) and beyond that, well there was the novelization where (surprise) she was an Elf that really did not liked the Horde. The bulk of the characterization beyond that was made by her sisters.

But while it's not exactly improbable for a Windrunner to make a pact with dark powers to avenge hersellf, where exactly her foray in voids magics is coming from ?

It's a new development, even in lore.
Prior to our arrival to Argus, she scouted Mac'aree and met Locus Walker. The Shadowguard hadn't arrived yet. She learned from him about how to harness the void as a weapon and got a few new tricks. Before she finished her studies, she hesitated and returned to the Army of the Light, and then Xe'ra had her imprisoned. That's why she didn't appear in the message to Arator throught the Heart of the Light (in the Paladin class hall).

When the Xenedar crashed, Alleria escaped, helping Turalyon and us against Aggonar. At that point, she demonstrated her new powers (teleporting throught shadows, firing shadowy arrows).

Later, when we returned with her to Mac'aree, she found out that the Void influence was spreading and there were more ethereals around. She met Locus Walker again and resumed her studies. She got more powerful by absorbing the heart of that void revenant whose name I forgot, then got her final upgrade throught L'ura.

TLDR: It's a new development in lore which started when she went to Argus, not something based on previous activities of her.

[Florena]

For the time thing consider that they haven't been on Argus the whole time, they have likely beein popping through time and space. A garrison inn quest in WOD suggested that Alleria had been on WOD's Draenor at one point for example. This could help explain the 1000 years thing.

[Deleted]

it creates an interesting storyline with her and turalyon being paragons of opposing forces, as well as her story being a bridge into the imminent void expansion

Does that make Arator the Redeemer the 'child of light and shadow'?

[DeicideUH]

Except we have 3 Order halls in the nether that work just fine and don't have people thinking it was a thousand years later. Perhaps the Windrunner sisters have a brain tumor that's congenital. The fact that she could FROM WITHIN make an assertion of time in there compared to outside(which is the only way to compare it) is ludicrous. I've done the quest and it only supports the fact that time does flow just fine in the nether.

Uh... the time in the nether seem to dilate, not contract.

So, it was 50 years real time, but to Turalyon and Alleria it felt like 1,000. So, a dilation around 1-to-20 (real time/nether time)

How Turalyon didn't die of old age? Maybe you also don't age in the Nether? I dunno, but maybe his apparent age is because he didn't spend all his time in the nether. He would spend fighting a some time in the material plane, then go to the nether, stay for what appears like 20 years, then return to find only one year passed, and so on.

About the Order Halls, if time dilates in the Nether, then it doesn't matter. It just means that you may enter the hall, spend a two hours doing research there, then return to the material world to find that only 6 minutes have passed in real time.

[shiava]

inb4 AP is converted into a shadow and light talent tree system in 8.0

OH man, I can see this totally happening for the void expansion

[breadisfunny]

plotholes existing does not mean they were lying or lied to.

plotholes existing means you as a writer failed and should go back to writing school.

[Strangewayes]

Now, to be honest, it's not like this is against Alleria characterization.

Alleria entire characterization in WC2 was her art and 5-6 lines when selected (the art does explain the ''click emote'' Keep your gaze focused..) and beyond that, well there was the novelization where (surprise) she was an Elf that really did not liked the Horde. The bulk of the characterization beyond that was made by her sisters.

But while it's not exactly improbable for a Windrunner to make a pact with dark powers to avenge hersellf, where exactly her foray in voids magics is coming from ?

Sylvanas has to be killed in a Raid and Alleria being the her sister with the power of the Void takes over as leader of the Forsaken

[cparle87]

plotholes existing means you as a writer failed and should go back to writing school.

First of all "plot holes" is two words. Secondly, do you consider everything you read that isn't spelled out for you in small words to be a plot hole? Were the kvaldir a plot hole from when they were introduced in Wrath until Legion because we didn't know where they came from and what they were there for?

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plotholes existing means you as a writer failed and should go back to writing school.

A plot development that has not been fully explained does NOT equal a plot hole.

[Liarparadox]

plotholes existing means you as a writer failed and should go back to writing school.

I've hated much of the writing since WOD. And it just seems to be getting worse and worse. Then again, they may have just changed their target audience so much that it just no longer suits me. Maybe that was intentional on their part. It's too bad because I've always loved the lore. Ah well. Hoping to be pleasantly surprised by the end of this xpac.

[Mic_128]

It's also possible that when Ner'zul ripped open all those portals around Draenor that started tearing ti to pieces, it could be possible that they also went to different points in Time.

[Magistrate]

Except it isn't considering we have multiple instances of characters being in the nether for prolonged periods and it has not been a thing. Outland, priest/warlock/demon hunter order halls etc. There are numerous examples of this and there has been nobody who suggested that in the time the people went to these places that it was longer than the rest of the world felt. If that were really the case, anyone who didn't go to Outland would have been really confused when we returned within 5 minutes.

The warlock questing in Legion says that time passes differently in the TN. I *think* the TN doesn't = space anymore, that's the Great Dark from what I've heard (I feel like it was in the first chronicle book) so Outland is retconned from being in the TN I believe, although some people say that Netherstorm might straddle that line. I don't know.

I think they left wiggle room by not saying it absolutely speeds up or slows down time relatively. It could be anything they define it for in any given circumstance.

Long and short of it: yes, plotholes, you're right, it conflicts.

[Mic_128]

Outland is retconned from being in the TN I believe, although some people say that Netherstorm might straddle that line. I don't know.

Outland is certainly in the Nether. You leap over the edge, that's not the Great Dark beyond down there.

[Themanintobuildafire]

I am more curious why when Alleria and my hunter are fighting mobs, I am out DPSing someone who is supposed to be more powerful than my character...

(Actually happens when any of these NPCs help me...I don't really think of them as legends anymore...I am the legend who they need...)

[Harbour]

Windunners are fucking Skywalkers of Warcraft, so i bet Vereesa is gonna step into some other shit.

[Cosmic Janitor]

it creates an interesting storyline with her and turalyon being paragons of opposing forces, as well as her story being a bridge into the imminent void expansion

Yeah it's mostly a plot device imho.

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Also, as for the story it helps their direction a lot. It helps show how the Light is not so perfect as presented earlier in WoW, also shown in the Illidan cinematic with X'era. It's presenting the Void and Light not as good and bad, but just two different forces.

That was actually long overdue, a bit more of light is pure and strict order and organic creatures don't fit into that would be a welcomed spin in the future as the whole light is only good angle became stale back when they already bent it to explain blood knights.

[Magistrate]

Outland is certainly in the Nether. You leap over the edge, that's not the Great Dark beyond down there.

It's space. TN is an alternate dimension, I'm pretty sure. It's labeled TN because the roles used to be reversed. The new Illidan book says it's explicitly in the GDB and Chronicle's distinction of the GDB describes it as the physical universe and "outer space" whereas the TN is an astral plane--which, despite astral meaning stars, in this context means mystical magical mumbo jumbo land.

Many wiki entries are currently outdated on this issue because it's all very new. Some people still make the argument that Netherstorm is partially in the TN, which still makes sense, but I'm not sure that's discusssed anywhere in all the retconned lore.

At least, this is everything my books and the internet is turning up for me. I could be wrong.

[CaptainV]

We're told Alleria was learning to use it from Locus-Walker who seems eager to break her up with Turalyon because it appears he wants her to learn this path alone, which may be required to master it.

Xe'ra also imprisoned her for practicing it once, which she clearly wasnt happy about.