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  1. #101
    I'd prefer to focus on gene editing and designer babies. I don't see the point in fathering something that's just gonna be inferior but dat's me.
    Violence Jack Respects Women!

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by McTroll View Post
    Welp. There was this debate during lunchtime at my workplace regarding whether it is morally reprehensible or not to choose not having children...

    ...and let's just say it wasn't too far off from what an MMO-C thread on that topic could muster. Two people even stormed off out of the building, presumably home, because they were so riled up.

    Let's just say lunchtime was more animated than usual. And that was an understatement!


    Now what do you guys think? Is it morally reprehensible to choose not to have children?
    I'm finding it difficult to believe that is even a real talking point its so ridiculous.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shanknasty View Post
    This is really a stupid thing to argue about. There is no moral equivalency to the decision of having or not having children. It's not as if they world is going to somehow become "underpopulated". More people tend to choose to have children than those that don't.
    ^ My thoughts in a nutshell here.

  3. #103
    No. People shouldn't be guilt tripped into having children.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    I want people to live their lives how they want, so long as it doesn't hurt others. Have kids, don't have kids - I don't care. What I am bothered by is people hating on others decisions to have, or not to have them. Like, mind your own business and keep your comments to yourself.
    Thank you. I totally agree with this. If people want kids, have them, if not, don't. I don't care either way. Me personally, I don't want children and either does my husband. We are happy with our life as it is. we both have many reasons for not wanting children. If I did ever want children I would love to adopt, there are many children that need a home that are already here.

    I have had people over the years questions my decision and say your parents must have been awful, your marriage must be bad, you would abuse a child so glad you aren't having any etc etc. I am always shocked at these comments. My parents were great and I am very close with them both, they have been married 45 years. My marriage is great, my husband and I have no issues and we are very happy and I would never ever abuse a child. Honestly, I think both my husband and I would make great parents but we have chosen not to do so for many various reasons.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by McTroll View Post
    Welp. There was this debate during lunchtime at my workplace regarding whether it is morally reprehensible or not to choose not having children...

    ...and let's just say it wasn't too far off from what an MMO-C thread on that topic could muster. Two people even stormed off out of the building, presumably home, because they were so riled up.

    Let's just say lunchtime was more animated than usual. And that was an understatement!


    Now what do you guys think? Is it morally reprehensible to choose not to have children?
    Your question is incomplete. Morally reprehensible to choose not to for ANY reason? What if your broke? What if you are homeless? What if you are self-concious enough to know you really wont give up your current life for that kind of responsibilty?

    Despite the 'go forth and multiply' line, there is nothing that religously obligates you to have children. you are morally obligated to care for that child if you do however.

  6. #106
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Seirith View Post
    Thank you. I totally agree with this. If people want kids, have them, if not, don't. I don't care either way. Me personally, I don't want children and either does my husband. We are happy with our life as it is. we both have many reasons for not wanting children. If I did ever want children I would love to adopt, there are many children that need a home that are already here.

    I have had people over the years questions my decision and say your parents must have been awful, your marriage must be bad, you would abuse a child so glad you aren't having any etc etc. I am always shocked at these comments. My parents were great and I am very close with them both, they have been married 45 years. My marriage is great, my husband and I have no issues and we are very happy and I would never ever abuse a child. Honestly, I think both my husband and I would make great parents but we have chosen not to do so for many various reasons.
    We surely need more people with your attitude. It should be the personal choice of a couple. People who don't want to have children for whatever reasons should not be forced to have any because society / state / relatives or whoever else demands that. We already have massive overpopulation, and on the other hand massive job losses due to automatisation, so we don't really need to increase the human population on this planet. Many areas are also not much suited for humans to live in and it would be better for us to retreat from such areas.

    On the other hand, I would not get on other's peoples nerves if they want to have children, either. Although I think that it's most of the time not a very sensible decision for a majority of people - but what to say, people are animals at their core, and the most important drives are self-preservation and reproduction, so there we go.

  7. #107
    I don't think it is and I personally aim at having one child only.

    That said, I can think of an argument why it would be if you live in a country of aging and shrinking population. Not because it is a bad thing to reduce the population (and economically speaking, technology seems to be leading us to a scenario of little demand of workforce anyways), but because this stagnation/reduction of population isn't homogeneous through the world, and strong gradients of population growth pushes people to migrate. Kind of like a diffusion process happening through a surface.

    This has two effects I see: first, you get immigrants and some people don't like that, it causes social tensions, cultural friction, etc. Second, you reduce the negative consequences of having a lot of kids in some overcrowded poor country, since they have a future perspective of moving to a better place and having a nice life. That could lead to people in these countries to be motivated to have more kids, forestalling the overall global population reduction. In a bizarre way, not having kids could lead to a population growth if it motivates families in poor countries to keep having lots of kids. It is a questionable strategy, but forcing people in overcrowded countries to face the consequences of overcrowdness could be an incentive for them to realign their cultural views to a direction of smaller families.

    It is similar to adoption. In a perfect world where every stray kids get a perfect loving family, a mother would be less restrictive to the idea of abandoning her baby.

    I just want to point out that I'm trying to think of reasons why you would find it morally reprehensible not to have kids, I don't necessarily believe in these arguments, at least not that consequences predicted would come in an intensity to actually make a difference.

  8. #108
    No. Calling refusal to procreate morally reprehensible is to claim people are primarily assets to their respective nation instead of free individuals, that their primary function is to cater to their nation rather than themselves and their loved ones. I know those exist who think this way and I for one find them reprehensible.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  9. #109
    I don't think it's reprehensible to not have kids. I do think it's a bit wrong to say you're not having them because you're suddenly tokophobic, or you're a 16 year old looking to get your tubes tied or have a vasectomy. I can't imagine any parent or sane doctor that would allow such a thing. No one of that age can possibly know that they want/don't want a child. I think you should be *at least* 25 before you even start considering making such a life-altering choice.

    My fiance and I have made the decision to not have kids. If something happens, like a condom break, then I guess I'm having a kid and I'm going to do my damnedest to raise them right. I just don't think I have the temperament to raise a kid long-term, which is why I'm choosing not to have any with my future wife. However, I do like kids and I think they're awesome, just in short doses. So when I'm done with my time here in Kuwait and I've saved all the money I wanted to save, I'll move back to the U.S. and get involved with some kind of Big Brother/role model type of thing where I can work with a lot of kids in my free time. That way I can be a positive influence and a role model to someone that needs one. Hopefully, if I do that right, they'll grow up and remember what I did for them, and they'll go out and help a bunch of kids who need it. It's like a pyramid scheme but for good.

    If I have a kid, then I will only have time for that kid, and my hobbies. That wouldn't be a bad thing, since that's still another human you've tried to help in this world, but I already explained why I choose not to do that.
    Last edited by pionock; 2017-09-14 at 02:19 PM.

  10. #110
    Data Monster Simca's Avatar
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    I can't think of an argument in favor of having children in the current state of the world. The human population is incredibly large and increasing it does no real good. We obviously need people to have children still, if for no reason other than to match the death rate, but considering we vastly outpace the death rate in almost every country (rip Japan), what's the point of arguing in favor of -everybody- having children?

    This isn't Battlestar Galactica where the human population is 50k and declining rapidly. In that situation, I actually think the argument is valid - not having children would be morally reprehensible.

    However, this is Earth; we're sitting at 7 billion and increasingly rapidly.
    Last edited by Simca; 2017-09-14 at 02:25 PM.
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  11. #111
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    Not at all. Some people just shouldn't have kids.
    Quote Originally Posted by nôrps View Post
    I just think you retards are starting to get ridiculous with your childish language.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemposs View Post
    I'll answer that with another question, is it morally correct to have children if you are certain that you would not be the best parent that you could be?
    Nobody is good at parenting. Some are just worse than others.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Simca View Post
    I can't think of an argument in favor of having children in the current state of the world. The human population is incredibly large and increasing it does no real good. We obviously need people to have children still, if for no reason other than to match the death rate, but considering we vastly outpace the death rate in almost every country (rip Japan), what's the point of arguing in favor of -everybody- having children?

    This isn't Battlestar Galactica where the human population is 50k and declining rapidly. In that situation, I actually think the argument is valid - not having children would be morally reprehensible.

    However, this is Earth; we're sitting at 7 billion and increasingly rapidly.
    I'm personally in favor if limiting birth to 2 children per person. And yes, forced abortion belongs with that.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    I'd say just the opposite. It's often selfish to have them.
    I have to agree with this, as I have often seen people have kids when they couldn't afford their care, have them as a bandaid for a bad relationship, have them to use as accessories or oneups, etc. As a matter of fact, I'm related to people who hit several of these descriptions, and their kids suffer for it.

  14. #114
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Forced abortions have occurred under the One Child Policy in China, but it's a violation of Chinese law and not an official policy. As such, I wouldn't ever support it being legal, but I would support have a 2 child per person policy in the US, should we get to the point where such a thing is needed.
    Having a policy and not enforcing it is just weak. Either you have the balls to do what is needed or you don't...half assing shit will cost more than not doing anything.

  15. #115
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    It depends on who you are.

    If you have a lot of resources and decide to just use them on yourself, I would say that you are being selfish/greedy.

    If you have no resources and decide to have kids, and appeal to the state/welfare to support you, then you are being selfish/greedy.

    Morally reprehensible? Nah. Morally wrong? Sure.

  16. #116
    There is absolutely no reason that it would be morally reprehensible, that is just a ridiculous.

    Now if there was some situation where the population became limited, say post-apoc or chosen to start a permanent colony on mars, then that would be another story. It would be morally reprehensible if it was needed for the continuation of the population.

    As it stands now I believe it is almost better for some people not to have children just because humanity will eventually reach a point of overpopulation at the rate we are going. I agree with others above that all these families that can't afford to even care for themselves having an absurd number of kids.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    If you have a lot of resources and decide to just use them on yourself, I would say that you are being selfish/greedy.
    And who said I have an obligation (moral, legal, or otherwise) to "redistribute" my resources? You? Ha.

    I have no such obligation to you, nor anyone else but the state via taxes. And I pay my taxes.

  18. #118
    The Insane Underverse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McTroll View Post
    And who said I have an obligation (moral, legal, or otherwise) to "redistribute" my resources? You? Ha.

    I have no such obligation to you, nor anyone else but the state via taxes. And I pay my taxes.
    >Asks who says he has an obligation to redistribute resources

    >Says the state legally obliges him to redistribute resources

    Regardless, I never spoke in terms of obligations. I spoke in terms of moral value. Hoarding your resources so you can buy your second yacht is wasteful and greedy. That isn't to say there shouldn't be some lenience for self-gratification, but there's a scale where it's useful and a scale where it's not.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    >Asks who says he has an obligation to redistribute resources

    >Says the state legally obliges him to redistribute resources

    Regardless, I never spoke in terms of obligations. I spoke in terms of moral value. Hoarding your resources so you can buy your second yacht is wasteful and greedy. That isn't to say there shouldn't be some lenience for self-gratification, but there's a scale where it's useful and a scale where it's not.
    Moral value is subjective. And judging from the way you debate, you use your own interpretations of that value to elevate yourself over others. Like so, so many others.

    Otherwise, why else would you nitpick on an exception I've pointed out regarding a previous statement of mine?

    You try to keep the moral high-ground, but your actual intent shows.

  20. #120
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    Considering maybe 2 people in 10 choose to have a child, are in a responsible position to have one, can afford it and are at least informed about the requirements, risks and realities of a kid. No

    what's wrong is just fucking having one because you trusted your partner, thought it was a good idea or "don't believe in abortion" People put more thought into buying a car then they do making a kid
    Wrath baby and proud of it

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