Only 60 guilds have cleared Mythic Tomb

[Alvito]

They've just retuned it but thanks for your deep insights as usual.

Just this week about 20 new guilds have killed him and the week isn't over yet. Between the boss nerfs and the buffs to weapons and some specs many got the bump they needed.

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Yah theres really no reward in clearing it, especially with the argus vendor and m+ providing good gear.

Mythic + sure, but the Argus vendors gear is garbage unless you hit the titanforge lottery and get an item you would actually want to use at high level.

[Ishayu]

what is considered to be the correct number of guilds to have achieved cutting edge at this point?

That depends on how many guilds are trying. With these participation rates, I'd say at around 3000 to 4000 guilds. Ideally, there should be approximately 2-3 guilds per server, with more for the large servers, that can clear it.

I personally thought that Nighthold was also too hard. Emerald Nightmare was pretty good, except the last boss was a colossal joke, and that sucked. Also, it was undertuned entirely due to the old Concordance (can't remember the name - it stacked to 20 and it was insanely good)

But I think that participation rates are also lower than they should be, and I think this is because Mythic raiding is not very rewarding. You don't really seem to get any cool new locations or places or stories, and on top of that the gear is not actually that great because of the titanforging system. People spamming Heroic are often more efficient, to the point where most guilds don't want to kill Mythic KJ at all - it's not worth it.

And because the gear isn't that great, you tend to overgear it in weeks, and because you overgear it in weeks, Blizzard must overtune it, and because they overtune it, you basically end up having to pray for RNGesus and do a ton of easy content all the time, which burns players out. You're not really making progress by actually progressing. And then, when you do make progress, it's because Blizzard nerfed it for everyone, and then it no longer feels like a thing you did because you were great.

[Deleted]

Do remember as well this figure contains Chinese guilds, of which Gul'dan didn't..

[Moozart]

https://www.wowprogress.com/

Is this an alltime low completion rate for a hardmode raid?

Only 60 guilds "fully" seeing content. Seems like quite the problem. Blizz needs to rethink tuning the game around Method/Exorsus.

How is this Possible? I mean, all these treads popping up about "How easy content is" "I am bored, ive done all content" "We are clearing content too fast " ect.

With the HUNDREDS of those post we see those numbers cant even be close to correct.

/end sarcasm

[Guyv3r]

Seems like quite the problem.

Seems like people need to play better. Trying to level everything around lower skilled players is not gonna solve you anything.

Strive to be better.

[Tikishock]

I thought this game was super easy and casual? With all the three button classes out there you would think Mythic content would be cleared by 85% of the community...

[Marrilaife]

Hell, one clever guy recently even suggested we need mythic+ for raids ....

Yeah, one "clever" guy who never stepped into mythic because his guild doesn't have 20 people so he's "bored out of his skull" being stuck in hc so thought it would be more fun to have "m+" Nighthold instead which I bet he never cleared on mythic "non plus" anyway. I was in that thread and I facepalm when non-mythic raiders try to make statements about mythic raiding. Don't have 20 people, go do m+ dungeons, they're there for you. Or recruit more.

-- Armageddon change is really nice as well. No more tank soaks in the corner. One roar is still probably required, but two definitely not necessary anymore.
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The nerf made it finally possible to complete the encounter with no bears. I was checking setups of the guilds who killed it (except Chinese, who you can't easily track), and I don't think I found a single kill without at least 1 bear pre-nerf. After the nerf, I found this:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...iew=analytical
World first no bear mythic KJ.
Makes me have a sliver of hope, as a non bear tank.

I think some french guild also has the privilege of being the world first guild to kill it with a DH tank. Again, after the nerf & crucible.

[Hahyestwo]

After crucible + nerfs, there were 12 new US KJ kills by Wednesday night. It's a completely different tuning level now. @Squishei commented with first hand observations on how the fight is much more reasonable and consistent. Being able to reduce class stacking requirements is huge.

There are also 79 US Avatar kills now, and we know the history of how difficult that fight was. I suspect that the floodgates will be opening and we will see kill levels on par with Gul'dan. It's in Blizzard's best interest for that to be the case, anyhow.

[SirBeef]

https://www.wowprogress.com/

Is this an alltime low completion rate for a hardmode raid?

Only 60 guilds "fully" seeing content. Seems like quite the problem. Blizz needs to rethink tuning the game around Method/Exorsus.

Not really. Blizzard understands this. That is why all the other segments of raiding are easily accessible.

[Squishei]

I mean, class stacking still exists. While it's not required:
-- Roar will reduce the number of wipes due to bad RNG
-- Each rogue removes millions of damage by Armageddon DoT
-- A Blood DK makes Dark phase a complete joke
-- Felclaws still exists and Armageddon hail, while tanking boss and some tanks margin of error is much larger than others.

The nerf made it actually reasonable, but there's the reason that you brought those classes in the first place still exists, just less so.

[Hctaz]

But by all means, be in your own bubble that the fight is even remotely close to what it was when they killed it. Personally we killed it world 6th, 4 days after the nerf to p3 and armageddons down to 6+2, we didnt even get to p3 before the nerf because it was just too punishing, not having enough dps, having 8 armageddons to soak etc. just made the fight a total mess.

Nobody is saying that the fight is the same. We're suggesting that the tuning of the entire raid was already way the fuck off from the beginning. I'd bet that many more guilds would have killed it now with the gradual nerfs if it were tuned better from the start.

[Logwyn]

I don't get the point of mythic. Seems like a waste of resources better spent else where. Flex is a much better game design IMHO. Got 10 show up for raid? Ok run it! Got 13? run it! Got 25? Run it!

Mythic is counter to that. Got 20 only? Nope. Only 19? Raid canceled! Got 20? No got 22... two get to sit and spin.

[Tennis]

Not really. Blizzard understands this. That is why all the other segments of raiding are easily accessible.

People don't want to do LFR though, they want to do hardmodes and get the best gear.

[Gorsameth]

I don't get the point of mythic. Seems like a waste of resources better spent else where. Flex is a much better game design IMHO. Got 10 show up for raid? Ok run it! Got 13? run it! Got 25? Run it!

Mythic is counter to that. Got 20 only? Nope. Only 19? Raid canceled! Got 20? No got 22... two get to sit and spin.

Because balancing something to a hard difficulty is (near) impossible with flexible player numbers like that.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

ToS was definitely a bit overtuned. The last 2 bosses are arguably the 2 hardest ever in WoW. Mistress and Maiden are also more difficult than a lot of end bosses, certainly more difficult than anything this expansion except Helya.

[Toybox]

ToS was definitely a bit overtuned. The last 2 bosses are arguably the 2 hardest ever in WoW. Mistress and Maiden are also more difficult than a lot of end bosses, certainly more difficult than anything this expansion except Helya.

Maiden is a freebie. You'd probably have to go back a hell of a long time to find an end boss that's easier than Maiden on its hardest difficulty (Xavius aside, of course).

[Low Hanging Fruit]

When you build a whole house of cards around mega RNG, and insanely increasing player power, and then put a cherry on top of endlessly rewarding grinding of AP and mythic+ this is the shit sandwich most people had to take a bite out of. Pretty much have to balance mythic around no lifers / bleeding edge. This and Nighthold have been the only two tiers we worried about not clearing the place on mythic (and before mythic heroic), since mid Cata, before the release of the next raid. We very barely squeezed in the finish of Nighthold. But got it done. I have my doubts about about this one. Granted the whole relic things has felt like a massive raid wide "nerf" and combined with recent actual nerfs odds are starting to swing in our favor again.

Now personally I do not have an insane problem with this. I remember playing vanilla and not clearing the original Naxx. Then not getting the last couple in Sunwell in BC. Then eventually getting in stride and getting it done during Wrath and then only missing it once in Cata (fuck you Rag). I was ok with it really. Still really am. Problem is most people turn so god awfully negative about it. Turns raiding from a fun time with the buddies into a constant complain nest of people that are so used to getting it all and for once having to go on the cheap and exploding over it.

If only for that reason I wish they would make it a little easier. So I didn't have to listen to forums, a few guild mates, and people in general bitch about it constantly.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Maiden is a freebie. You'd probably have to go back a hell of a long time to find an end boss that's easier than Maiden on its hardest difficulty (Xavius aside, of course).

Guilds stuck on Kil'jaeden: 192
Guilds stuck on Avatar: 403
Guilds stuck on Maiden: 449
Guilds stuck on Mistress: 1168(a lot of those guilds are probably dead, or just casual guilds since the 1st 5 are a joke).


So yeah, Maiden is totally a freebie...

[Meiffert]

Guilds stuck on Kil'jaeden: 192
Guilds stuck on Avatar: 403
Guilds stuck on Maiden: 449
Guilds stuck on Mistress: 1168(a lot of those guilds are probably dead, or just casual guilds since the 1st 5 are a joke).


So yeah, Maiden is totally a freebie...

Absolute rather than relative numbers?

Guilds stuck on Sisters: 1301
Guilds stuck on Harjatan: 1115
Guilds stuck on heroic Kil'Jaeden: 3947

Wow, heroic must be harder than mythic since more stuck guilds...

We killed Maiden the day after killing Mistress.


I don't see how anyone could call it harder than Gul'dan. Even Elisande/Star Augur took us 2 weeks each.

[Biomega]

We need relative numbers to judge across tiers. Not 500 guilds killing something now vs. HFC, but % of total guilds (say with at least 1 mythic kill). Because participation has fluctuated over time, absolute numbers don't mean that much.