Long Time WoW Player Questions

[Aruhen]

I don't think its fair to say that Legion doesn't have a lot of casual content. The issue with me as a casual player myself is that while Legion launched with a crap ton of casual content is that subsequent patches haven't done the best job at it. The amount of new story they added is minuscule. Dungeons? They're cool for the first time but outside of that they only just add variety to the dungeon pool as zones such as Argus overshadow them in terms of gear progression unless you do high Mythic+.

Having said that the same can be said for FFXIV. The only real difference is that WoW seems to front load their casual content more at launch were as FFXIV has more of it in patches but not a huge amount more.

[Sorrior]

Not ignoring it, it just wasn't the specific topic that Sorrior mentioned (you alluded/gave me credit that you know my stance on other forms of content as I'm not being a LOLIMANELITISTFUCTHECASUL). He explicitly stated WoW'S focus was on raiding (which we agree is max level battle content correct?, thus the point of the focus).



Which appearance are you missing? Is it something someone can help you unlock? I unlocked them all fairly easily, only 3 colors across all appearances currently elude me (10 RBG wins, and last 2 pvp colors, fuck that grind).

A

The problem with hunts is that it's really not much different than a world boss, which WoW has a plenty. You could also consider world quests a fair comparison to that as well on the lower hunts.

I'd give you credit for Diadem, if it wasn't DoA content, twice. It's merely just an instance with mobs. Not much different than open world questing again when you really get down to it. Even aside, WoW has scenario's and releases new areas (i.e. Argus/Broken Shores) which honestly, probably mirror Diadem more closely than I originally realized.

I always give credit where credit is due and PotD is pretty cool. That said, I'm not sure how you'd call it max level content. It's pretty clearly tailored towards leveling alt jobs, not necessarily anything relevant to a max level character.

Lastly, I quite like the concept of maps. It reminds me of Chocobo hot and cold from FF9 which I LOVED. I do wish there was a little bit more to the concept though.



Agreed. Not a huge fan of gating. I'm exceptionally surprised that the alt-itis concerns weren't readily apparent at Blizz long before launch. A lot of beta players saw it coming from a mile away.



That's not true. I probably play less hours a week than most of you on this forum so I'm the epitome of a casual player . I just like fun content I can hop right into and offer myself a reasonable amount of challenge for my time. Honestly doesn't need to be super hard.

If we talk side content: If Chocobo racing was a large progression and skill based thing that gave my chocobo real world benefits and unique things I'd be in that 24/7 because that would be fun to me. If Blitzball is a cool match based queue system with actual engaging gameplay, I'll be there all day!

If LoV reminded me of Starcraft or Age of Empires I'd be playing that today. I love side content, I just don't like boring half assed side content



You're more than welcome to refute my analysis on my definitions if you disagree, and you're always welcome to offer your own definition and cite the hows/whys you arrived at that conclusion for discussion; rather than attacking me personally.

I'll let you decide what kind of person you want to be.



Shout out to my boy for having my back even though he can't stand me ^_^



The problem with this statement is that there is a factually correct answer. The good grilled cheese sandwich comes with soup. Anything less is garbage.

Also, I'm borderline lactose intolerant and anyone who says a HAMBURGER is a real sandwich is a liar, and most likely a pedophile. A CHEESEBURGER is a real sandwich.

-_^

I meant the entire thing from balance of power. Unless nerfed it could not be done in lfr even if extremely nerfed (which I always supported a crazy low drop rate in lfr)

And hunts also appeal to those who like to explore world bosses are just shown

Oh and sightseeing logs

As for potd i meant you can use it it to gain endgame equipment through tomestones


Not saying wow hasn't improved but overall I do feel they ignore certain types of players they once catered too

[Berethos08]

They took all the AOE dmg and locked it behind a 80s cooldown, I dont even...

That's an exaggeration for sure.

Rain of Death is still a base 15 second cooldown, Quick Nock is still the same gcd ability it was before (and outside of positioning it was better than Wide Volley anyway as it cost less for the same damage).

We lost a placeable ground target AoE that we could only use once a minute, and the reset procs for RoF got moved from a 50% chance to a 100% chance which is where the 80s cooldown part comes in...but you still have access to it every 15 seconds and can spam Quick Nock whenever you want.

Doesn't sound like it's all behind an 80s cooldown to me.

[Wrecktangle]

I meant the entire thing from balance of power. Unless nerfed it could not be done in lfr even if extremely nerfed (which I always supported a crazy low drop rate in lfr)

Ah ok. You won't get much sympathy from me on that specific note because honestly not everything should be a given to every player. I mean you may not get balance of power because you don't raid in WoW, but you're not getting the Genji Sword either because you don't raid. Both games share almost all the same design tenants which I why I so vehemently defend each game when people don't look at these things objectively.

And hunts also appeal to those who like to explore world bosses are just shown

HUGE stretch here. They are for all intents and purposes identical. Sure you have to spawn the hunts (the A/S ranks), but technically even WoW had that with Kosumos and I think there was a second one as well. So again, roughly identical.

Oh and sightseeing logs

You're moving the goalpost. You explicitly stated battle content. No one here is debating anything regarding non combat side-content. Sightseeing is not battle content.

As for potd i meant you can use it it to gain endgame equipment through tomestones

Yeah you could, but why would you? I could drive to Kansas to get gas in my car, but why would I when there's a better gas station across the street from my house. If you get my drift. PotD is great low level content even if a tad bit dry. I already gave credit for that. It's very clearly NOT intended as max level content considering it has its own progression schema.

Not saying wow hasn't improved but overall I do feel they ignore certain types of players they once catered too

I know what you're saying I'm just telling you that I think you're letting your bias cloud your judgment. I cited examples that I believe support my case. Remember I'm not posting to hurt your feelings or make you feel bad. I just want you to look at what you're saying as objectively as you can. I'm not saying the game you love is shit and sucks compared to WoW (fun fact: I am subbed to FF14, not WoW) so there's no need to defend yourself. Just wanted you to see that the games really aren't as different as you think they are and that they both cater to you if you're willing to look.

[Sorrior]

Ah ok. You won't get much sympathy from me on that specific note because honestly not everything should be a given to every player. I mean you may not get balance of power because you don't raid in WoW, but you're not getting the Genji Sword either because you don't raid. Both games share almost all the same design tenants which I why I so vehemently defend each game when people don't look at these things objectively.



HUGE stretch here. They are for all intents and purposes identical. Sure you have to spawn the hunts (the A/S ranks), but technically even WoW had that with Kosumos and I think there was a second one as well. So again, roughly identical.



You're moving the goalpost. You explicitly stated battle content. No one here is debating anything regarding non combat side-content. Sightseeing is not battle content.



Yeah you could, but why would you? I could drive to Kansas to get gas in my car, but why would I when there's a better gas station across the street from my house. If you get my drift. PotD is great low level content even if a tad bit dry. I already gave credit for that. It's very clearly NOT intended as max level content considering it has its own progression schema.



I know what you're saying I'm just telling you that I think you're letting your bias cloud your judgment. I cited examples that I believe support my case. Remember I'm not posting to hurt your feelings or make you feel bad. I just want you to look at what you're saying as objectively as you can. I'm not saying the game you love is shit and sucks compared to WoW (fun fact: I am subbed to FF14, not WoW) so there's no need to defend yourself. Just wanted you to see that the games really aren't as different as you think they are and that they both cater to you if you're willing to look.

See thing about balance of power is an ENTIRE appearance line is locked behind it including color variants for activities that have NOTHING to do with raiding that is the problem. Oh and it is given to all players and breaks with a history of lfr delays

And you can use potd because it can be done fast and I know many who enjoy it

And I won't lie new world bosses are similar to hunts but they do work/award things differently. And I still say hunts appeal to more types then just battle types

[Wrecktangle]

See thing about balance of power is an ENTIRE appearance line is locked behind it including color variants for activities that have NOTHING to do with raiding that is the problem. Oh and it is given to all players and breaks with a history of lfr delays

An appearance line is nothing more than a glamour. The Genji Sword analogy fits perfectly, which you have no issue with in FF14? I'm 100% ok if you have issues with both approaches, but if your bias only has issues with WoW then you're being unfair.

There's nothing wrong IMO with having the requirement be raiding and have other colors locked behind non raiding activities. In fact I'd argue that's a good design decision because it gets raiders doing content they wouldn't normally do (it worked on me, got me pvping again and doing WQ's) and it got people who wouldn't normally raid out trying to do normal. Do you believe incentivizing players to step out their comfort zone and experience new things is bad?

And you can use potd because it can be done fast and I know many who enjoy it

What does POTD being able to be done fast and people enjoying it have anything to do with the discussion? I said it's clearly not max level battle content (thus excluding it from the discussion) and stated clear examples to support my statement.

Even still, I was nice enough to give credit on it, so need to keep mentioning it.

[Sorrior]

An appearance line is nothing more than a glamour. The Genji Sword analogy fits perfectly, which you have no issue with in FF14? I'm 100% ok if you have issues with both approaches, but if your bias only has issues with WoW then you're being unfair.

There's nothing wrong IMO with having the requirement be raiding and have other colors locked behind non raiding activities. In fact I'd argue that's a good design decision because it gets raiders doing content they wouldn't normally do (it worked on me, got me pvping again and doing WQ's) and it got people who wouldn't normally raid out trying to do normal. Do you believe incentivizing players to step out their comfort zone and experience new things is bad?




What does POTD being able to be done fast and people enjoying it have anything to do with the discussion? I said it's clearly not max level battle content (thus excluding it from the discussion) and stated clear examples to support my statement.

Even still, I was nice enough to give credit on it, so need to keep mentioning it.

Heh it has plenty to do considering I am talking about ways you can gear up

And one thing I think you may not realize is that even though I generally do not raid it is still fun to do every so often. Abd unlike wow overall I i can stay close enough

And And nothing And nothing wrong with incentivizing but not everyone has time or ability to gather a group to say pug nm raids.

And ffxiv wise they do eventually nerf/release even savage on a duty finder unlike wow who keeps it divided. So in a few months I can get the Genji weapons if I bother.

So if ffxiv had the aforementioned quest I could go for it say six months to a year later. Not in wow (also seeing that quest in my order hall bugs the crap outta me)

Again I say let it be done in lfr but make it maybe a 50-75% drop NOW back then maybe 25% or even 10. Would still push people to try new stuff to get it faster but leave open for all.

And I have been playing wow the past week or so. Killing time abd by the gods do they need to work on stuff like rep grind issues and alts being so unviable.

The community seems to be mostly better then it was at least so far.

But overall..I am not sure it does anything I really like better then ffxiv. The games story is disjointed and all over (due to the focus on time gating as opposed to quest gating I suspect)

The catchup stuff is nice though. Sadly stuck on valarjarl rep

Oh and wow using the gw2/Wildstar cosmetic system is nice abd I do hope ffxiv will someday adopted a rift/gw2 style.maybe with cosmetic slots. Having alternate specs can be nice too.
But frankly it shows it's age and imo brings nothing to the table i cannot find better elsewhere abd ffxiv overall is the better game imo.

Also I see another wow drought incoming too sadly

[Wrecktangle]

Heh it has plenty to do considering I am talking about ways you can gear up

We're done talking about POTD. Yes you can run it to grind for max level tomestones. I asked my entire static and FC if anyone does it and they all said no (they do other more efficient ways). While this is a smallish sample size it's indicative of the WIDELY accepted use of POTD which is not grinding max level tomestones, but leveling alts, thus not max level content. Please drop it.

And one thing I think you may not realize is that even though I generally do not raid it is still fun to do every so often. Abd unlike wow overall I i can stay close enough

That's all fine and dandy. Not sure why you're bringing this up though. I don't recall discussing anything of the sort.

And And nothing And nothing wrong with incentivizing but not everyone has time or ability to gather a group to say pug nm raids.

That's fair enough of an argument, but a normal pug clear takes less than an hour pretty sure. Maybe 2 hours tops for really low end skilled players. I don't have any data other than what people tell me (I asked some guild mates who run alts through normal still). I imagine most "casual" players have an hour or two to spare on a given week... Just open group finder, there's almost 3 dozen normal mode raids running at any given time.

And ffxiv wise they do eventually nerf/release even savage on a duty finder unlike wow who keeps it divided. So in a few months I can get the Genji weapons if I bother.

1) You're telling me that you're going to clear O4S this expansion? Is that what you are saying? In a DF pug? By all means please, I'd love to see that happen. Coming from someone who has done the fight, I'd love to see this streamed live in a few months. Let's define a timeline so I can check up on this in a "few" months. A few is 3 by my standards, how much is a few by yours? 99% sure O4S won't even be in DF by 3 months. So let's just say for the sake of the discussion, we'll circle back on when O5S is released, and they moved first omega to DF you will clear it then yeah?

2) In WoW you can just go solo old content for whatever you want, pretty much the same for FF14. Not sure why you think they're that different.

So if ffxiv had the aforementioned quest I could go for it say six months to a year later. Not in wow (also seeing that quest in my order hall bugs the crap outta me)

Not sure I follow what you're talking about here. Mind clarifying?

And I have been playing wow the past week or so. Killing time abd by the gods do they need to work on stuff like rep grind issues and alts being so unviable.

FF14 has the same rep grinds; do you think they need work also? Alt issues are fair game. No disagreements there.
The community seems to be mostly better then it was at least so far.

But overall..I am not sure it does anything I really like better then ffxiv. The games story is disjointed and all over (due to the focus on time gating as opposed to quest gating I suspect)

Nothing wrong with that statement.

Also I see another wow drought incoming too sadly

Legion has been releasing steady content at basically the exact same pace FF14 has been for over a year, why do you believe you see another drought coming?

[Berethos08]

Legion has been releasing steady content at basically the exact same pace FF14 has been for over a year, why do you believe you see another drought coming?

Blizzard has managed regular content updates for patches before (before WoD it was actually the norm). Where they've historically struggled is that gap between the last patch and the next expansion.

Regular patch updates simply isn't an indicator that they won't have that gap again, nor does it suggest they will have the gap. Their history suggests it will happen again and I think anyone believing another drought is coming is just basing it on the game's history (until Blizzard proves otherwise).

[Wrecktangle]

Blizzard has managed regular content updates for patches before (before WoD it was actually the norm). Where they've historically struggled is that gap between the last patch and the next expansion.

Regular patch updates simply isn't an indicator that they won't have that gap again, nor does it suggest they will have the gap. Their history suggests it will happen again and I think anyone believing another drought is coming is just basing it on the game's history (until Blizzard proves otherwise).

Fair enough - I can agree with that. I am willing to suspend doubt that they'll do better this time because they've done a pretty good job this go around. Not to mention, I don't think the game will survive an enormous drought (sub wise, it'll always survive), but the community will certainly plummet.

[Sorrior]

We're done talking about POTD. Yes you can run it to grind for max level tomestones. I asked my entire static and FC if anyone does it and they all said no (they do other more efficient ways). While this is a smallish sample size it's indicative of the WIDELY accepted use of POTD which is not grinding max level tomestones, but leveling alts, thus not max level content. Please drop it.



That's all fine and dandy. Not sure why you're bringing this up though. I don't recall discussing anything of the sort.



That's fair enough of an argument, but a normal pug clear takes less than an hour pretty sure. Maybe 2 hours tops for really low end skilled players. I don't have any data other than what people tell me (I asked some guild mates who run alts through normal still). I imagine most "casual" players have an hour or two to spare on a given week... Just open group finder, there's almost 3 dozen normal mode raids running at any given time.



1) You're telling me that you're going to clear O4S this expansion? Is that what you are saying? In a DF pug? By all means please, I'd love to see that happen. Coming from someone who has done the fight, I'd love to see this streamed live in a few months. Let's define a timeline so I can check up on this in a "few" months. A few is 3 by my standards, how much is a few by yours? 99% sure O4S won't even be in DF by 3 months. So let's just say for the sake of the discussion, we'll circle back on when O5S is released, and they moved first omega to DF you will clear it then yeah?

2) In WoW you can just go solo old content for whatever you want, pretty much the same for FF14. Not sure why you think they're that different.



Not sure I follow what you're talking about here. Mind clarifying?



FF14 has the same rep grinds; do you think they need work also? Alt issues are fair game. No disagreements there.
The community seems to be mostly better then it was at least so far.



Nothing wrong with that statement.



Legion has been releasing steady content at basically the exact same pace FF14 has been for over a year, why do you believe you see another drought coming?

Meanwhile I know a person who mixes in potd abd genuinely enjoys it

As for getting gear true in wow expansions do help however blizzard has a VERY long history of removing such quests when new expansions come out (see cloak and ring quests) that is another issue I have the REMOVAL of content that could actually prompt group play in older stuff that might even help out new players. Every expansion being an almost self contained game and ignoring previous ones has always bugged the crap out of me.

And do you mean beast tribes for rep? Because those are 100% optional power wise. Also I feel paces much better(this part is subjective)

And if you mean wows community agreed Def doing better.

Annnd beret husband covered the drought expectation.

To be fully honest I am having fun in wow just saying I feel they make alot of choices that push away long time subbing for me and promotes burnout as well as realizing all my work is borderline pointless since my artifact will be gone and quite possibly alot of quests removed next expansion.

Personally I think blizzard should either let us finish off sargeras and release warcraft 4 leading into a wow 2 where shadow lords are the true threat or have us lose to the legion with a warcraft 4 having us retake azeroth er abd rebooting it using the e erakd dream. Que new reborn azeroth er to explore as we prepare to face the void lords.