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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronovey View Post
    there's always going to be a bottom of the meter. Someone has to be there
    This, even if the gap between the top spec and the bottom spec was 1% someone is still on the bottom.
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  2. #62
    Lets be honest guys, people will ALWAYS find something to complain about. But at the end of the day, unless you have 95% + performance on logs, the problem is in player and not the class.

    And then, if you not aiming for top rankings in logs, what's the problem. And if you are, then you really need to pick class for that.

    I can be first in DPS meter on ST bosses in our raid, beating people with better gear, altho its a bit of rng right, "do I crit annihilation a lot or a little" then other classes are top on AOE bosses, cba. I actually love this. This way, not only 1 dps class will be most effective, it will vary depending on the encounter.

    Most importantly, what you see on paper, the dps class comparisons and such, does apply like to top 5% players, as for the rest, you can be first in DPS with the bottom class/spec just by bringing in better performance than others.

    If you pick class for numbers and not what you actually like, that's also the problem. Being comfortable and or confident with your hero does affect your performance as well.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post

    Your typical Blizzard defender.

    "Bro you're not in a top10 guild so whyyyyyyy do you even careee broooooooooooooooo"
    Your typical poster with no actual counter point.

    You mock the post instead of adding to the discussion.
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  4. #64
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    Thing i found funny about this class(dps wise) is that ppl bitched about us being trash on boss dmg but "average" on aoe/cleave back in EN

    Now we're average on boss dmg and "trash" on aoe/cleave.

    What the hell do u guys want blizz to make us? make us good on st, aoe and cleave? Lol not gonna happen.

    And incomplete class? what are u guys smoking? Seriously? Just because the class has 2 specs its all of the sudden incomplete? Tbh i find havoc more complete than lets says, those classes with 3 specs.

    Speaking of those 3 spec classes, they must be incomplete too right? Cuz there is that druid with 4 specs....

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihal View Post
    Thing i found funny about this class(dps wise) is that ppl bitched about us being trash on boss dmg but "average" on aoe/cleave back in EN

    Now we're average on boss dmg and "trash" on aoe/cleave.

    What the hell do u guys want blizz to make us? make us good on st, aoe and cleave? Lol not gonna happen.

    And incomplete class? what are u guys smoking? Seriously? Just because the class has 2 specs its all of the sudden incomplete? Tbh i find havoc more complete than lets says, those classes with 3 specs.

    Speaking of those 3 spec classes, they must be incomplete too right? Cuz there is that druid with 4 specs....
    please check warlocks and moonkins parses. Blizzard is incapable of balancing when you have classes that are top tiers regardless of the type of fight.

    Tell me where a demon hunter in the current raid can outshine a moonkin or a warlock.

  6. #66
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    And why do you have this necessity of outshining them?

    More and more i think Ion is really right, WCL is just a tool to show how -popular- a spec/class is, and not to show how well they really peform.

    Just go to your guild and after a boss kill, look at the % of how much dmg you did compared to other? Tell me if its bigger or less than 5% from u to the preposterous lock or boomking or w/e is above you.

    Do that for ST fights, Cleave and aoe.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    All those promised changes in 7.2.5 worked well right?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Right, being sat out even on heroic progress by a guild because why take DH over everything else it sucks.
    If you are being sat on heroic it's because you suck. You bring as many people as possible to heroic, and havoc is still in a great place in a burst perspective.
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  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarcho View Post
    and yet we are doing just fine in ToS.
    Literally the worst spec(that doesn't have a better spec to swap to) is fine? lol. I'm not even going to read past your first sentence when you're spouting that garbage.

    edit for proof of my claim before you attempt to spout more shit: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount

    The only specs under us are BM and Assa.
    Last edited by Zyky; 2017-09-15 at 11:57 PM.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    Literally the worst spec(that doesn't have a better spec to swap to) is fine? lol. I'm not even going to read past your first sentence when you're spouting that garbage.

    edit for proof of my claim before you attempt to spout more shit: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount

    The only specs under us are BM and Assa.
    you guys should really stop posting others WCL, post me yours WCL where you have 95%+ performance and where are you at the bottom of the raid dps, I would like to see that, rather than some bs link with 75+ perf and dps for entire raid, the only thing it proves is that owls got not even best but just most sustained cleave, nothing else

    More and more i think Ion is really right, WCL is just a tool to show how -popular- a spec/class is, and not to show how well they really peform.
    touche, people go all about the numbers because that how do it pros, but what they don't see is how many factors play role into the final real numbers, and then ofc only few are good enough to rely on those dps sheets

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneclosetothesun View Post
    you guys should really stop posting others WCL, post me yours WCL where you have 95%+ performance and where are you at the bottom of the raid dps, I would like to see that, rather than some bs link with 75+ perf and dps for entire raid, the only thing it proves is that owls got not even best but just most sustained cleave, nothing else


    touche, people go all about the numbers because that how do it pros, but what they don't see is how many factors play role into the final real numbers, and then ofc only few are good enough to rely on those dps sheets
    OK.... Name is Asariel. Now there is a DH that was #3 on the fight, but he also has near BiS and a 943 ilvl.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

    94th percentile but #15 in dmg done.

  11. #71
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    yeah, overall on that fight, but if you change for the boss dmg, you're much closer of the boomkin

    Wich was the complain when EN was the only raid avaiable

    "omg who cares about overall dmg, luke how bad we're on boss dmg"

    Now that we're decent on boss dmg, ppl do the inverse of EN.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by oneclosetothesun View Post
    you guys should really stop posting others WCL, post me yours WCL where you have 95%+ performance and where are you at the bottom of the raid dps, I would like to see that, rather than some bs link with 75+ perf and dps for entire raid, the only thing it proves is that owls got not even best but just most sustained cleave, nothing else


    touche, people go all about the numbers because that how do it pros, but what they don't see is how many factors play role into the final real numbers, and then ofc only few are good enough to rely on those dps sheets
    What does it matter who's logs they are, that's called a STATISTIC, its EVERYONES logs for EVERY class. You must be special needs...

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    This, even if the gap between the top spec and the bottom spec was 1% someone is still on the bottom.
    As it's the case....

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Zasriel View Post
    OK.... Name is Asariel. Now there is a DH that was #3 on the fight, but he also has near BiS and a 943 ilvl.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

    94th percentile but #15 in dmg done.
    are you kidding me, its bloody cleave fight and your performance is at 74%
    What does it matter who's logs they are, that's called a STATISTIC, its EVERYONES logs for EVERY class. You must be special needs...
    this is from your own link
    goroth myth: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=95&boss=2032
    sisters myth: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=95&boss=2050
    diference between dh and 2nd demonology lock is 50k dps
    maiden myth: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=95&boss=2052
    ops looks whos first

    It is done the way that not only 1 class/spec is top on every single boss, but it varies depending on encounter, so more classes/specs got a chance to reach top in dps metter. According to these WCL you have good chance being top at 3 out of 9 bosses, imho its fair unless you expect only 1 class/spec to dominate all 9 bosses which is bs

    Okay Dh is not best cleave in current meta, and there are lot of aoe fights in ToS, but it is not as bad as you keep claiming it is
    I tried once run demonic on mistress and difference was night and day, also you got plently of legs you can swap to add more to your cleave dmg if you so obsessed with being high on logs, but it seems rather unnecessary since other classes can take care of cleave while u be punching boss

  15. #75
    lol DH has zero room to complain with the state WW are in and h ave been the entire expac.
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  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Plastkin View Post
    Congratulations on disagreeing with the entire history of patch notes. I'm sure you're right and Blizzard's historical behavior isn't.
    The history shows massive balance changes in patches 7.1.5 and 7.2.5. Are you seriously trying to argue there won't be changes in 7.3.5?

  17. #77
    you're like 1% behind everyone else. cry more. dps is more close than ever and DH is doing great in m+

  18. #78
    I'm puzzled by the cries of low DPS in these forums. If I didn't know any better, I would think Havoc is just a trash spec if I tried to learn from these forum posts. The crucible has been a significant buff to us from what I've seen; the Havoc main in our guild went from top 1-4 DPS to absolutely crushing the DPS meters this week 4/9 M ToS, with the sole difference being the introduction of the crucible. No other gear upgrades or changes.

    The current simcrafts show Havoc isn't at the very top, but the margin of difference is realistically so darn low right now that in actual practice you can for sure be the very top DPS in your progression guild as Havoc. And if things change with Antorus raid -- which we do NOT have the best data for, as the fights aren't Patchwerk and we actually need to get in there to test out -- Blizzard still has time and motivation to make changes in 7.3.5 .

    Maybe if you're in a top 0.01% guild that is pushing M KJ then yes, the slight difference in DPS matters to you, but let's be honest here -- how many people complaining about Havoc's "subpar" performance are actually at that level? Seriously guys.

    Havoc is fine. Having a change in raid talents/rotation is welcome. The damage WILL be viable regardless. I'm hoping to turn my Havoc alt into my main for the next raid because of just how damn fun it is to play Demonic in M+, and how relaxing the spec is to play in raids.

  19. #79
    ^^ exactly
    Havoc is fine. Having a change in raid talents/rotation is welcome. The damage WILL be viable regardless. I'm hoping to turn my Havoc alt into my main for the next raid because of just how damn fun it is to play Demonic in M+, and how relaxing the spec is to play in raids.
    There is a huge problem with picking up lesser soul fragments on mythic difficulty thanks to the increased amount of mechanics to deal with and importance of positioning in this difficulty, I already posted it here and on blizz forum.

    In worst case scenario you won't be able to pick them up at all. I hope someone gonna read it and actually put it through testing and bring up some solution, something like the fragments will slowly march towards you or they spawn closer...

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by oneclosetothesun View Post
    Lets be honest guys, people will ALWAYS find something to complain about. But at the end of the day, unless you have 95% + performance on logs, the problem is in player and not the class.
    It does not matter if i parse @95 percentile or 75 or 50. Most dps specs currently out there will do bigger numbers at the same percentile, and the specs that do even worse than us, have better spec to switch to if they so desire. I don't think there are a lot of people here who claim to play perfectly. no one does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post
    lol DH has zero room to complain with the state WW are in and h ave been the entire expac.
    why would a dh care about the state of another spec? besides, just looking at the avg parses of all ToS encounters, wws are above DHs.
    Last edited by aGit; 2017-09-17 at 01:03 AM.

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