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  1. #41
    There's nothing they need the independence for. No one need another radical Islamic puppet state living by oil and drugs.

  2. #42
    Example of things that would probably happen

    1)The Iraqi government, the one that could be forced at gunpoint to accept this ''deal'', would lose whatever shred of legitimacy that it have left amongst Iraqi (cue to renewed Shia-Sunni violence)

    2)The Kurds themselves don't want Iraqi Kurdistan, they want Kurdistan (which involves ''freedomizing'' Iran and Turkey-clearly, that's what the region need the most)

    3)While the Kurds apparently gave commendable religious freedoms to minorities in their areas in Syria and Iraq (I'm optimist and lean to think it's not merely a tactical move), there are hardly ''100% Kurds'' area. The Turkish Kurdistan is for instance around 60% Kurd. What do you think will happen with the Turks in those areas ? Does the world need a few million more refugees ?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Landlocked. Landlocked.

    It doesn't matter how much Kurdistan wants those air bases, you can't build air bases you can't fly to.
    Space bases!

  4. #44
    There is no politician, not even Erdogan that can tell the nation

    - all your daughters and sons, sent to serve in the east (not military but; doctors, teachers, public officers etc teachers being killed, the most casualty being the teachers and yes if you are a new public worker like a teacher you have to serve in the east first. Usually 4 years)
    - all your relatives
    - all the police and soldiers

    died for nothing. Nobody can do that.And these people both kurdish and turkish killed by PKK.(I can't say turkey is %100 innocent either tho, there were wrongdoings I believe).

    Second, Don't think like they are living in ghettos like immigrants in EU. No, they are among everyone. My faculty dean was kurdish, my uncle is kurdish. my cousin is marrying a kurdish guy next summer, had kurdish neighbors, had kurdish students at university, had kurdish friends. How are you going to tell whole nation (forget about the human cost) that all the taxes they paid, all the projects, all the factories, infrastructure , investment is now handed to a new nation? When west looks at their electricity bills they can see the money that they pay for the people living in the east. East uses west pays. They use it either illegal or freely.(not saying kurd here, told you turks and kurds live together).

    Now if you are talking about the otherside of the border, in iraq, syria and iran. Your best bet would be iraq since they are in the worst shape. I believe even syria would stop them. against iran they hve no chance. Even in iraq, I don't really think the USA is supporting this idea because reasons you all can guess.

    Then again AKP will decide what to do on 22 september before 25 referandum in iraq. If you ask me it is too late. I feel like they will use insufficient time as an excuse for something about this kurdish independence. I said not even erdogan can dare about partition of turkey to kurds but still I won't be surprised with all the shit he pulled so far.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by sarahtasher View Post
    Indeed. Because, see, Kurdish independance means carving up a Kurdistan from four different countries. Three out of four will outright refuse (Iran, Syria, Turkey) and while Iraq could be presumably ordered at gunpoint to do so, that would mean removing the figment of authority that the Bagdhad governement still have

    Incidentally, it's crystal clear that what the entire region need is another round of brutal ethnic strife.
    There are those that want to divide up another country to the south. Whats the point? The Kurds should have independence as much as the Palestinians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackhisis View Post
    There's nothing they need the independence for. No one need another radical Islamic puppet state living by oil and drugs.
    The Kurds are more than likely the most diverse religious group in West Asia.

  6. #46
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    I generally disapprove of the idea that every group of people needs their own nation, as I believe the "melting pot" philosophy of society is more advantageous, but I'm also aware that the Kurds have suffered a great deal at the hands of pretty much everyone in the Middle East. I honestly question how successful a nation of their own would be, and really, who's going to give them the territory? Certainly not Iraq, Iran or Turkey. All of whom have an equally fair claim to the land, and the military might to uphold that claim. The Kurds would be more successful asking for Mongolia to give them a slice of land.

    Also, I just wanted to point this out as I had to remind myself of the exact geographical location of the Kurds, apparently google has deemed all the portions of land Russia has taken from nearby countries as "unavailable". It doesn't list what they were, it doesn't list who is claiming them, it doesn't list them as "disputed" just..."unavailable". That's kinda fucking bullshit.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

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  7. #47
    The kurds want entire kurds region meaning a part of Iran too , do you honestly think USA gonna go to war with a close ally of Russia and a stable country with enough resource to make them suffer just for sake of bunch of kurds wanting their own land? do you think the kurds would have a day of peace with entire region being hostile to them ?
    Not to mention Israel being one of US closest ally and its been said multiple time if US try to invade Iran its glove off for Israel from Iran and its allies (hamas/hezbolah ) and no amount of Iron dome gonna protect Israel from daily missile strike .

    So in conclusion no i dont think kurds gonna have their independent land that involve stealing land from Iran/Turkey

  8. #48
    I'd like to say yeah, they earned it but at the same time I see problems drawing more lines in the middle east. Either way, fuck Turkey.

  9. #49
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    My thoughs on this are simple and clear: the West should in no way be involved in this, nor any other situation in the Middle East after the defeat of ISIS.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoLcano View Post
    The kurds want entire kurds region meaning a part of Iran too , do you honestly think USA gonna go to war with a close ally of Russia and a stable country with enough resource to make them suffer just for sake of bunch of kurds wanting their own land? do you think the kurds would have a day of peace with entire region being hostile to them ?
    Not to mention Israel being one of US closest ally and its been said multiple time if US try to invade Iran its glove off for Israel from Iran and its allies (hamas/hezbolah ) and no amount of Iron dome gonna protect Israel from daily missile strike .

    So in conclusion no i dont think kurds gonna have their independent land that involve stealing land from Iran/Turkey
    Do you honestly think that the US government would go to war to back an explicitly socialist independence movement?

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    My thoughs on this are simple and clear: the West should in no way be involved in this, nor any other situation in the Middle East after the defeat of ISIS.
    Islamic extremism is like a hydra. It won't be "over" in that regard just because they stop organising themselves as IS, especially not while Saudi Arabia is propagating Wahhabism.

    They'll splinter and start fighting amongst themselves, and keep on doing Muslim on Muslim terrorism even if it's not in the shape of trying to establish a state of their own.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by sarahtasher View Post
    Indeed. Because, see, Kurdish independance means carving up a Kurdistan from four different countries. Three out of four will outright refuse (Iran, Syria, Turkey) and while Iraq could be presumably ordered at gunpoint to do so, that would mean removing the figment of authority that the Bagdhad governement still have

    Incidentally, it's crystal clear that what the entire region need is another round of brutal ethnic strife.
    Are you being serious?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Huh? Explain your logic there.

    Turkey will not sever its alliance with NATO because they need NATO more than NATO needs them, in exchange the Kurds will forever be fucked where they'll get lip service support as long as it's convenient for the US/NATO and will get shafted as soon as it is politically expedient.

    Has been done to them before.
    Turkey needs NATO to protect herself from who? Greece? Syria? Iraq? Iran? These countries do not pose a military threat to Turkey. Russia? We shot their jets, and they couldn't do a jackshit. Now, they are selling us S-400s and plans to build them. Not to mention Turkish Stream and other projects with Russia are being planned/implemented.

    USA, on the other hand, needs Turkey's base and support to have field to maneuver, be it militarily or politically in the ME.

    So yeah, keep believing "Turkey needs NATO, LUL" bullshit while you are slowly but steadily losing your strongest ally in the ME to Russia. But at least, you got Kurds where half of the population is illiterate

    You bunch need to understand this:

    Erdogan is here today, gone tomorrow. Turkey's institutional culture is stronger than you think, and certainly older than most of the countries in the world. However, your take on Kurds and their political agenda in ME is going to shape the relation between Turkey and West, and effectively with Russia and Iran. Your incompetent politicians need to take steps with caution.

    I mean do not get me wrong, as I've always said, I prefer Turkey with West than Turkey with anyone else. Having ties with West, culturally and politically, should be our first aim but not in spite of our interests.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2017-09-16 at 09:11 AM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Turkey may decide to give them the Ol' Armenia treatment.
    Probably the same would happen in the other 3 countries as well. That region is extremely important to all countries involved as it is considered to be of geographical significance in case of foreign invasions.
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    most of the rioters were racist black people with a personal hatred for white people, and it was those bigots who were in fact the primary force engaged in the anarchistic and lawless behavior in Charlottesville.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Are you being serious?

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    Turkey needs NATO to protect herself from who? Greece? Syria? Iraq? Iran? These countries do not pose a military threat to Turkey. Russia? We shot their jets, and they couldn't do a jackshit. Now, they are selling us S-400s and plans to build them. Not to mention Turkish Stream and other projects with Russia are being planned/implemented.

    USA, on the other hand, needs Turkey's base and support to have field to maneuver, be it militarily or politically in the ME.

    So yeah, keep believing "Turkey needs NATO, LUL" bullshit while you are slowly but steadily losing your strongest ally in the ME to Russia. But at least, you got Kurds where half of the population is illiterate

    You bunch need to understand this:

    Erdogan is here today, gone tomorrow. Turkey's institutional culture is stronger than you think, and certainly older than most of the countries in the world. However, your take on Kurds and their political agenda in ME is going to shape the relation between Turkey and West, and effectively with Russia and Iran. Your incompetent politicians need to take steps with caution.

    I mean do not get me wrong, as I've always said, I prefer Turkey with West than Turkey with anyone else. Having ties with West, culturally and politically, should be our first aim but not in spite of our interests.
    No, this is sarcasm. The region OBVIOUSLY don't need another crisis.

  15. #55
    the mess that the ottoman empire left behind is astounding. and i dont believe the turks will accept any referendum or independence movement. im actually 100% sure it will never happen

  16. #56
    Well they have been the best ground force against isis gotta give them that, big mistake by isis attacking them.

  17. #57
    Again, question for the usual suspects, who don't like refugees.

    Like in most of those situations ,the regions claimed for Kurdistan have a Kurdish majority at best-maybe 60% in say Turkish Kurdistan. What is going to happen to the 40% remaining ?

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Lol. Aren't you funny? Enjoy the incoming ban. You'll be sorely missed.
    Be quiet boy, or you'll be sent to the cotton fields as well.

  19. #59
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    My thoughs on this are simple and clear: the West should in no way be involved in this, nor any other situation in the Middle East after the defeat of ISIS.
    We have a winner... +100 to this guy right here.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by sarahtasher View Post
    Again, question for the usual suspects, who don't like refugees.

    Like in most of those situations ,the regions claimed for Kurdistan have a Kurdish majority at best-maybe 60% in say Turkish Kurdistan. What is going to happen to the 40% remaining ?
    A situation like India/Pakistan probably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    My thoughs on this are simple and clear: the West should in no way be involved in this, nor any other situation in the Middle East after the defeat of ISIS.
    Does that include Russia?
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