Should mythic raiding going forward be tuned to be as easy as Emerald nightmare was?

[ScrubRouge]

If the numbers clearing Antorus are as low as I'm expecting, I think they'll take some rather big action. There were already fewer guilds raiding since Legion launched, and tomb is tanking remaining guilds left right and center.

there will always be more guilds raiding in the start of the expansion vs mid expansion. that is always the case on average. ToS isn't the only thing to blame for tanking raiding guilds. lots of players are just getting burnt out and want to take a break. it happens every expansion. To be fair. yes ToS raiding has put a lot of strain but its not the sole cause of it all

[Zyky]

If the numbers clearing Antorus are as low as I'm expecting, I think they'll take some rather big action. There were already fewer guilds raiding since Legion launched, and tomb is tanking remaining guilds left right and center.

lot of guilds have died this expansion too which is pretty sad. They're effectively removing the high end community and I wonder if its intentional.

[rogoth]

hi i voted no

i'm sorry but i don't see any LFR KJ kill, can't take you seriously at all.

[Crimewave]

Attendance is dropping because mythic TOV, NH and now ToS were tuned very tight..

Not sure if lie or ignorance.
Attendance is dropping because of titanforging and burnout.

[Deleted]

tbh they should leave it at this difficulty, but add the old ICC mechanic back in which increased a % of your damage and healing etc.
You are also able to disable this buff. Maybe only make this active after the race is over? Then people have the chance to kill it without the buff or kill it with if it is to hard for them.

[Deleted]

To everyone that voted (and will vote) "no": show your helya, gul'dan and kj mythic kills proof or SHUT THE FUCK UP!

BS, I don't have those. I haven't done mythic raiding since Cataclysm, simply because the guild scaled back and that fitted changes in IRL for me. So I didn't look for a new guild.

So now I can't do all the content, big deal. There should still be tough challenges for those that can and want to. I would have been really pissed back then if they =had dumbed the hardest raids down.

[Tradu]

Definitely not, but what Blizzard should do is not make shit raids like ToS going forward.

- - - Updated - - -

It's probably safer to say it won't be tuned as ridiculously as KJ unless the devs want to keep getting roasted by players for shitty encounter design

KJ isn't really a tuning issue(anymore), though. It's just a poorly designed fight(and ToS has too many of those)

[Deleted]

BS, I don't have those. I haven't done mythic raiding since Cataclysm, simply because the guild scaled back and that fitted changes in IRL for me. So I didn't look for a new guild.

So now I can't do all the content, big deal. There should still be tough challenges for those that can and want to. I would have been really pissed back then if they =had dumbed the hardest raids down.

Cata didnt have mythic raiding... Mythic came at the end of SOO

[Deleted]

Hehehe i cleared mythic hfc during prepatch and i was able to clear EN mythic therefor my shitty brain made me think im a sick hardcore mythic raider hehe xD
Now pls nerf any relevant and hard content in this game just so i can keep this delusional reality real for me hehehe iksde

id be fine with it if you cry about prenerf avatar being too hard or something like that but mythic itself? completely? 5/9 tos is literally freeloot if you have any knowledge about the game. - cant do it? go play heroic then.
not enough for you? well mh maybe try to improve instead of crying 24/7

also everything that really is too hard will get nerfed anyhow (helya got literally destroyed by nerfs and mistress/avatar are also way easier than they were in their original state.) - if you need nerfs to kill for example harjatan well then mythic raiding clearly isnt the difficulty you should be raiding as harsh as it sounds.

[Deleted]

Hazzikostas already said that M KJ is too hard and unhealthy for the game.

Expect Antorus to be on NH levels of difficulty.

[Woobels]

There's a problem when you have multiple bosses who require hundreds of wipes each and then combine it with mediocre rewards, courtesy of titanforging. Spending weeks on Mistress, only to have even more weeks on Avatar and only *then* getting to KJ? One third of a raid being a huge wall isn't fun, especially with the way these bosses are designed.

At least with something like Gorefiend, you opened up several free loot bosses that actually gave you upgrades for all that effort. The reward was worth it and you'd get superior gear all the time, so the instance was "nerfing" itself. You didn't shard all the new loot, because you titanforged something better back on heroic.

If they plan to stick with the same difficulty, they better update the rewards. Even those who are mostly in for the challenge like to be rewarded for their effort. Otherwise, you spend months wiping, only to get bunch of enchanting materials. It's telling that some guilds aren't even bothering to rekill KJ. If this continues, Blizzard will kill mythic raiding.

Who knows, maybe it's their goal?

Underrated post.

Imagine if Gorefiend had no free kill bosses after him, HFC would have been cleared a whole lot less (basically remove Iskar/Socrethar from existing, or place them in different parts in the raid)

Difficulty pacing is really important and Blizzard has fucked up a lot with that this raid, going from Avatar to KJ is really brutal and I can't really think of a time we had two bosses like that in a row, maybe Mannoroth/Archi but I found that far less stressful and annoying for some reason.

[Tradu]

Underrated post.

Imagine if Gorefiend had no free kill bosses after him, HFC would have been cleared a whole lot less (basically remove Iskar/Socrethar from existing, or place them in different parts in the raid)

Difficulty pacing is really important and Blizzard has fucked up a lot with that this raid, going from Avatar to KJ is really brutal and I can't really think of a time we had two bosses like that in a row, maybe Mannoroth/Archi but I found that far less stressful and annoying for some reason.

Because they were both good, even if difficult, bosses. Avatar and KJ are both pretty shit fights because they're basically "throw every mechanic possible into the fight, to the point where you need a bunch of immunities/rogues to deal with it all"

[KaPe]

Because they were both good, even if difficult, bosses. Avatar and KJ are both pretty shit fights because they're basically "throw every mechanic possible into the fight, to the point where you need a bunch of immunities/rogues to deal with it all"

Not to mention they didn't "need" any specific classes... and I say it as someone who experienced Mannoroth without DKs. It was nasty, but doesn't even compare to doing these two without immunities.

It's like someone suddenly discovered that immunities exists and decided to design half of raid around it. Even back in "interrupt or die" era of early Cataclysm raids, they didn't go nearly as far.

[Deleted]

Cata didnt have mythic raiding... Mythic came at the end of SOO

Well duh, I mean the hardest mode, if I say heroic raiding people will start telling me it doesnt count till you do mythic. I've been playing this game since release, so I don;t need people explaingin to me what changed.

[Morae]

I was under impression blizz has said somewhere that they would like roughly 500 guilds to clear mythic during the tier. If it goes past that, it was too easy and if it doesnt get to that it was too hard.

This or I just pulled this shit out of my imagination. Something like this seems to have just stuck in my mind.

As far as I can tell, gul'dan was killed by ~1700 guilds by ToS release date. (This if I looked at it correctly from wowprogress)
While Xavius was killed by NH release date way over 5000 guilds. (Again, if I'm looking at wowprogress right).

In a way, you could say that, if I picked these numbers correctly, guldan on mythic was ~3 times harder than xavius. If we compare to that intended 500 kills, gul'dan was still too easy by three times while xavius was over ten times easier than blizz intended.

If the 500 inteded kills is what blizz aims at, M ToS seems extremely hard.

[datredphoenix]

Mythic EN was a complete joke lol

[Osmeric]

Mythic EN was a complete joke lol

The bigger joke is the "git gud scrubs" people now complaining the content for them is tuned too hard. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Can't do it? GG!

[Deleted]

The main difficulty problem stems from a multitude of legion systems which all add up. Over an entire week of gearing up in mythic, chars are barely growing in power.

1) 2x Legendary items. It sounds very cool that you have 2high ilvl items that have additional effects, but so does everyone. The developers cannot tune the fight in their absence, so out of 15 item slots, you only really have 13 item slots to upgrade.

2) 1x Weapon Slot formed by 3 relics. Your weapon ilvl will be around the same as the one from top guilds when they are going against the endbosses. Going from 3 ilvl 920 relics to 3 ilvl 935 relics gives you a total of 9ilvl on your weapon. In the past a single weapon drop was an ilvl 15+ increase, now 3 "weapon drops" are worth less. 13 item slots-1 =12

3)4 item slots are usually filled with set items. I think there's 2 mythic tokens dropping(+coins). It will take forever for this slots to make a difference, not to mention your average guild will have much fewer complete sets(with both heroic+normal ilvl) than top guilds(who have 4 hc set on every used class that matters). 12 item slots-4=8.

4)Trinkets are not the stars they used to be. Before, devs didn't really account for the best trinkets being ridiculous, but now they don't need to because raid trinkets are usually weaker than stat stick titanforges/m+ stuff/crafts . 8item slots- 2=6.

So really, you are only upgrading about 6 items - usually a neck(which you really want socketed if possible), wrist,waist, feet, 1 ring(again, really hope for the socket and massive amount of stat) and gloves/cloaks. Less if you're a class that benefits from 2p/4p from last tier as well.

As I said, chars are just not growing enough in power from heroic to mythic. And as an added effect, class stacking is much stronger than in the past, but if you can't take advantage of that, then you're waiting for Blizzard to nerf.

[shaunika123]

To everyone that voted (and will vote) "no": show your helya, gul'dan and kj mythic kills proof or SHUT THE FUCK UP!

https://www.wowprogress.com/character/eu/ragnaros/Sauny

good enough?


mythic SHOULD be hard
and emerald nightmare wasnt that


ToS (well mainly avatar and KJ) may have been overkills,
but generally speaking, a mythic raid should be at least as difficult as HFC or NH was

you can nerf them later to make them accessible to more people(which is what they're doing, and have been doing)
but the first month or so it should be hard

[Dahij]

To everyone that voted (and will vote) "no": show your helya, gul'dan and kj mythic kills proof or SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Um, what does that have to do with anything? People might not have killed them because they are difficult, and they might like it that way. Not everything needs to be killed by the average joe.