Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Lightbulb Enhancement Discussion/Class Development

    *****I have been playing Enhancement for 12+ years. This thread is intended for positive class balance and seeing that our favorite spec is developed in the right direction for future expansions and gameplay.*****

    I believe we are in a good place right now. The rotation is really fun, we have decent mobility, and our AOE feels like it is in a good place. We are a mid pack single target DPS at best. Our AOE is decent but shouldn't be better than Elemental.

    I really think we need more damage. I'm pretty geared and the maximum amount of DPS I can pull is like 1.2mil single target and maybe 2mil on AOE. Which is not bad but it's just not preferable. I get declined from groups regularly because why take an enhance shaman when there are demon hunters, death knights, and warriors. They pull way more dps and you can't use the excuse that they are purely DPS because they are also hybrid classes. Melee is already kind of a liability because there is a false pretense that this type of playstyle is harder to manage in high level content for healers and that they die more to mechanics. The numbers just seem really lackluster for how powerful I feel using these abilities. We have always been glass cannon burst with lackluster sustain.

    I feel like our survivability needs tweaking even if it was something baked in like passive damage reduction or maybe they could reintroduce and rework Shamanistic Rage as a talent instead of Ancestral Swiftness. Back in the day, this used to reduce mana cost (I believe?) as well as providing another damage reduction. I think we can do better.

    Right now as a talent, I've always hated Ancestral Swiftness because of how bland it is, a flat stat boost does not feel good when you're choosing a TALENT. Why not give a real talent?

    Shamanistic Rage
    2 minute Cooldown
    All damage taken reduced by 30% and successful melee attacks have a chance to reduce the cost and global cooldown of your next ability by 50%. 15 second duration.


    This would be interesting because rather than buffing our damage or giving us flat haste, we could effectively be more involved in our rotation, the change to reduce Global cooldown of our next ability means that we could spend MP faster at a reduced cost and put out more damage but have it be personal rather than class X gets X% buff on all their abilities. People who react and play better should be better.

    We know Blizzard loves to bake in defensives with damage boosts so I believe this would fit right in with that situational usage they want us to decide on.

    Even if you don't want to add this as a talent I still think it would be a good ability to implement to Enhancement AND Elemental in SOME iteration.

    I think it's good to homogenize every class so that everyone is on an equal playing field and Blizzard obviously stands behind this philosophy, they've been doing this for years. However, I believe personal experience and how well YOU play should give you the edge. It's common sense, it is natural. If you are better you should noticeably feel like you're DOING better.

    Another thing I would like to see personally, please just take away Mana, all spells should be exactly like healing surge, after a certain amount of maelstrom the spell cast should be instant but they shouldn't be limited by a *now* secondary resource that is essentially just clutter.

    Removing mana would make Healing Surge much more powerful and contribute to our survivability in a balanced way, trading DPS resources for survivability is smart. At this time, mana is used for Healing Surge, Hex, and Purge?

    Hex should still be cast but after a significant amount of MP should be instant cast, it already has a CD, so adding this would give the Shaman a choice, I can instantly hex someone but it's going to cost a massive chunk of my resources. In PvP this would be a good change, because it would reduce our burst capabilities while giving us more balance and versatility. Giving these choices to a player makes the game and the class more enjoyable and challenging.

    Purge should not cost mana but should just be on a charge system with a set recharge time like Rockbiter. It is situational and strong. You should need to consider WHEN to purge rather than just spam until your mana runs out. The recharge time doesn't need to be long and by costing MP it could balance itself out, you just used Rockbiter to generate MP well Purge will cost as much as Rockbiter generated. You need to choose between your utility or saving MP for that DPS output.

    This is just a few of the things we can do, what changes would you like to see for enhancement? Please help me create a civil discussion.

    Please contribute to my thread on the official Shaman and class development forums:


    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20759295795
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20759155773
    Last edited by Cynical Person; 2017-09-14 at 04:42 PM.

  2. #2
    Deleted
    We need more damage? Because you cant pull more than 1.2m single target?

    Enhance has issues, but surely not a lack of dps... our cleave is okayish/very bad without t20. But our single target is very high, one of the higgest currently.

    The lack of raid utility and defensives is the only issue.
    Last edited by mmoc4ec7d51a68; 2017-09-14 at 07:32 PM.

  3. #3
    We know Blizzard loves to bake in defensives with damage boosts so I believe this would fit right in with that situational usage they want us to decide on.
    They... do?
    I can barely think of any abilities that are both defensive and damaging.
    Because those abilities are terrible, because you will always use them for damage and can't use them for defence.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    They... do?
    I can barely think of any abilities that are both defensive and damaging.
    Because those abilities are terrible, because you will always use them for damage and can't use them for defence.
    They did stuff like that. I know they made SWG a dps CD via set bonus so you had to use it on CD instead of a mobility tool whenever you needed mobility.

    But it always was a bad design.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    They did stuff like that. I know they made SWG a dps CD via set bonus so you had to use it on CD instead of a mobility tool whenever you needed mobility.

    But it always was a bad design.
    True but I liked the choice you were able to make.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Funky View Post
    True but I liked the choice you were able to make.
    That isn't choice, its the illusion of one. Just when you think you are super versatile you will quickly realize that in reality any boss that has a dps check that needs to be met you will use that ability on CD/line up with procs/procs etc.

    Back in ICC Shamanistic Rage was also used as a DPS cooldown as per the set bonus had a flat damage increase attached to it.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Leivah View Post
    That isn't choice, its the illusion of one. Just when you think you are super versatile you will quickly realize that in reality any boss that has a dps check that needs to be met you will use that ability on CD/line up with procs/procs etc.

    Back in ICC Shamanistic Rage was also used as a DPS cooldown as per the set bonus had a flat damage increase attached to it.
    Well, I still like the idea behind it, maybe they should just give us back Nature's Guardian but rework it to be a combination of the old version and like Cheat Death.

    Then we can soak and have a tad bid more passive survivability.

  8. #8
    This seems a little off the current discussion of Enh, but I'd like to ask if anyone has bothered getting the Secure in the Light crucible trait for any of their relics. Specifically, does the instant healing rain we can talent proc the additional 100k heals? I would already use it from time to time on progression where stacking for a big damage phase was going on, but the crucible trait has me curious.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by caballitomalo View Post
    To OP.

    I would agree that in terms of mechanics we are in a good place. I feel we need another burst CD that doesnt require talent. Something to go along with Ghost Wolves. What exactly that CD is and all the numerical details are best left for Blizzard to design. Also, another defensive ability might be nice too; it doesnt have to be another stral shift but at least 1 more thing to go with it and our limited self healing (wich I believe to be well designed by its mana limitation).

    So, in short I would like 1 more DPS CD and 1 more defensive, all designed by Blizzard.

    So, your design for Shamanistic Rage. I dont like 1/2 and 1/2 abilities like that one. They end up being just 1 thing. On that note, some of the things people are commenting here about some times defensives getting turned into output abilities arent really valid because many of those were tier set bonuses. So by design tier bonuses are meant to be temporary changes that shake things up and in a way its how the "test" possible changes for the future.

    Lastly I dont see a fault with our utility. If anything what I would like is more instances in which to use them. The mage tower fight is an example (on steroids) of what I would like. Give players a reason to utilise their entire tool-kit. The problem with that is... well... people will complain that the game is too hard. XD
    TL : DR TOO HARD - entire wow community 2k17

    that was a bad joke but I understand your point and Im just throwing out ideas because I really would just like to create a push for better changes to our class.

  10. #10
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by caballitomalo View Post
    To OP.

    I would agree that in terms of mechanics we are in a good place. I feel we need another burst CD that doesnt require talent. Something to go along with Ghost Wolves. What exactly that CD is and all the numerical details are best left for Blizzard to design. Also, another defensive ability might be nice too; it doesnt have to be another stral shift but at least 1 more thing to go with it and our limited self healing (wich I believe to be well designed by its mana limitation).

    So, in short I would like 1 more DPS CD and 1 more defensive, all designed by Blizzard.
    More DPS CDs =/= More DPS though, you will always be balanced on average relative to other classes, with some deviations with trinket/bonuses/boss interactions.

    Ex: Count the # of cooldowns a Frost DK has in their arsenal and look at where they are now.


    Having a short cooldown in conjunction with a medium/large with the option of another is as flexible as they come and Enhancement does not lack in that department with Doom Winds (1m) + Wolves (2m) (+ Ascendance (3m)).

    Considering the game has been out for over a decade I cannot for the life of me understand the replacement of shamanistic rage with astral shift, for Enhance in particular.

    In regards to on demand burst Doom Winds and a decent streak of Stormbringer procs (with Ascendance as a option) already makes Enhance a desired specialization in that field.

    We lack defensively granted, especially when you compare us to the immortal gods known as rogues but TBF its about time they neutered immunities in the PVE scene seeing as every time it becomes relevant what usually follows is the stack of classes that possess them not to mention break half the mechanics.



    If Shamanistic Rage were to come back in place of Astral Shift and Feral Spirit got their healing back it would be considerably better than what we have today, without going to extremes of 'everyone has a spell that can soak the meteor that killed the dinosaurs why can't I have one?'

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by caballitomalo View Post

    Lastly I dont see a fault with our utility. If anything what I would like is more instances in which to use them. The mage tower fight is an example (on steroids) of what I would like. Give players a reason to utilise their entire tool-kit. The problem with that is... well... people will complain that the game is too hard. XD
    In a raid setting Enhance has almost 0 raid utility. The only utility you could spec in takes away your mobility talent (yay for 30s charge?) what else is there? Our defensive's are absolute trash. The only thing that i can do as a shaman is some very niche self heals during moments of rare fights where i am not actively dpsing and need heals.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Leivah View Post
    More DPS CDs =/= More DPS though, you will always be balanced on average relative to other classes, with some deviations with trinket/bonuses/boss interactions.

    Ex: Count the # of cooldowns a Frost DK has in their arsenal and look at where they are now.


    Having a short cooldown in conjunction with a medium/large with the option of another is as flexible as they come and Enhancement does not lack in that department with Doom Winds (1m) + Wolves (2m) (+ Ascendance (3m)).

    Considering the game has been out for over a decade I cannot for the life of me understand the replacement of shamanistic rage with astral shift, for Enhance in particular.

    In regards to on demand burst Doom Winds and a decent streak of Stormbringer procs (with Ascendance as a option) already makes Enhance a desired specialization in that field.

    We lack defensively granted, especially when you compare us to the immortal gods known as rogues but TBF its about time they neutered immunities in the PVE scene seeing as every time it becomes relevant what usually follows is the stack of classes that possess them not to mention break half the mechanics.



    If Shamanistic Rage were to come back in place of Astral Shift and Feral Spirit got their healing back it would be considerably better than what we have today, without going to extremes of 'everyone has a spell that can soak the meteor that killed the dinosaurs why can't I have one?'
    First of all, shamans have by far the worst def toolkit.

    Second: they made content where the only relevant utility was to soak stuff. Not to mention gimmicks like self disspell on maid bombs or di debuff or mistress purple.

    So having a cloak is very benefitial before all those soak mechanics. Adding all those "soak that solo" mechanics made the balancing a mess. All those without strong defensives became USELESS.

  13. #13
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    First of all, shamans have by far the worst def toolkit.

    Second: they made content where the only relevant utility was to soak stuff. Not to mention gimmicks like self disspell on maid bombs or di debuff or mistress purple.

    So having a cloak is very benefitial before all those soak mechanics. Adding all those "soak that solo" mechanics made the balancing a mess. All those without strong defensives became USELESS.
    One could argue that Fury has it just as bad if not worse on that first point.

    The rest of what you said is accurate but it also says more about the content than the class in of itself. Which is why they should have fixed the problem with immunities years ago, which is sad considering it actually limits design choices of future content if you think about it.

    I don't remember in EN/ToV Enhance getting benchd for not having a immunity.

  14. #14
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Leivah View Post
    One could argue that Fury has it just as bad if not worse on that first point.

    The rest of what you said is accurate but it also says more about the content than the class in of itself.

    I don't remember in EN/ToV Enhance getting benchd for not having a immunity.
    Because you needed very few soaks. 2 mages/rogues were enough for Guarm. It would also be very different if the KJ dot wouldnt last one minute and you get so many soaks. On FA rogues can soak everything solo - in p1 and p2.

    I was always fine with 2 or 3 soakers needed. This content needs everyone or nearly everyone to soak stuff.

  15. #15
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    Because you needed very few soaks. 2 mages/rogues were enough for Guarm. It would also be very different if the KJ dot wouldnt last one minute and you get so many soaks. On FA rogues can soak everything solo - in p1 and p2.

    I was always fine with 2 or 3 soakers needed. This content needs everyone or nearly everyone to soak stuff.
    Exactly, in this tier in particular the problem is the content is poorly designed so unless you have the ability to immune shit then you will automatically dislike the raid.

    I can't help but roll my eyes when I see someone asking for a immunity for their spec.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Leivah View Post
    Exactly, in this tier in particular the problem is the content is poorly designed so unless you have the ability to immune shit then you will automatically dislike the raid.

    I can't help but roll my eyes when I see someone asking for a immunity for their spec.
    Well many melees have immunities or very strong defensives. Pala, DK, Rogue and DH have immunities. Even windwalker have strong soaks. Ferals have AOE damage avoidance, 6% dmg reduction + i believe barkskin +bearform.

    The problem is: enhance has nothing of relevance. Not even speed totem. At least dps is competitive. Mobility well isnt that great.

  17. #17
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    Well many melees have immunities or very strong defensives. Pala, DK, Rogue and DH have immunities. Even windwalker have strong soaks. Ferals have AOE damage avoidance, 6% dmg reduction + i believe barkskin +bearform.

    The problem is: enhance has nothing of relevance. Not even speed totem. At least dps is competitive. Mobility well isnt that great.
    DK has a immunity? Only to the application of stuns and magic debuffs with IB and AMS but not damage prevention like Netherwalk, Cloak or Divine Shield

  18. #18
    Aside from the obvious stuff (pitiful selfhealing, almost no defensive options - aside from Ankh) and the fact we got a mediocre cleave as an AoE...

    I'm not sure I like that they made enhance yet another cooldown-juggling specc. In the past, after the remake for BC at least, this specc had been about managing your globals with certain uptimes. They added some proccs with Wrath (and imho the best AoE-solutionso far) and "burst" with wolves, and kept at that.
    Now, enhancement is purely a burst and luck-dependent specc. It scales badly (as always) and if you're progressing, you can havea wide variety in DPS during burst phases. From worst to best, you can almost double your damage in different approaches - and you aren't at fault for this. All up to RNG.

    RNG in the form of WF (and your usual crit-RNG) had been a way to modulate the more or less linear output in the past. But now, with all those cooldowns, this RNG makes you unreliable. In PvE and PvP. I don't like to be unreliable. And if you got good RNG, your enemy in PvP doesn't like that, too, because then the class feels OP to them. Whenever RNG is not in your favour in PvP, it's all because of the skill of your enemy - in their mind, ofc.

  19. #19
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Leivah View Post
    DK has a immunity? Only to the application of stuns and magic debuffs with IB and AMS but not damage prevention like Netherwalk, Cloak or Divine Shield
    AMS works pretty much like that. It prevents some debuffs frol being applied so e.g. he can soak armageddon and get no debuff/never get a debuff. Additionally unholy has 20% less aoe dmg taken - a massive advantage in survivability. Frost AMS can even remove most magic debuffs. So he can remove bombs on maid or armageddon debuff. Also works on mistress, DI and sisters. Aside of the nagic dmg bubble and higher armor and strong death strikes with IBF.

  20. #20
    Deleted
    Sure I know the Frost trait that but even after it STILL has a cap of damage taken before its gone, Cloak doesnt while doing everything else ergo it is beyond busted.

    IMO AMS is the perfect celling for soaking abilities. Edit: Forgot to mention its also restricted to magic.

    However once again I will say that fixing these spells is only half the battle. When you design a raid tier that revolves around soaking crap and having immunities allows your setup to gain massive DPS you are asking for trouble.
    Last edited by mmoc7d8146013b; 2017-09-17 at 04:12 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •