Only 60 guilds have cleared Mythic Tomb

[Sinew]

dont become a businessman

I assume you're talking about how my attitude is against having as much people as possible experience the content? That's because it's mythic. Not everyone should get to experience it. It's the highest difficulty meant for the most skilled players. If suddenly most players became good enough to clear mythic, I suspect blizzard would buff bosses significantly.

Do you also think that it's a bad decision to have rewards for doing harder content? Many developers besides Blizzard do that and are successful.

Everyone's experience will be better if they have some end goal to work towards, not something that is easy enough for them to do. Improve yourself, don't beg for the game to come down to your level.

[Nahela]

KJ Nerfs went in on Tuesday, had some Avatar nerfs not too long ago. Being addressed, gradually

'Gradual' retuning needed to start after the first handful of kills, not months later.

[shaunika123]

I assume you're talking about how my attitude is against having as much people as possible experience the content? That's because it's mythic. Not everyone should get to experience it. It's the highest difficulty meant for the most skilled players. If suddenly most players became good enough to clear mythic, I suspect blizzard would buff bosses significantly.

Do you also think that it's a bad decision to have rewards for doing harder content? Many developers besides Blizzard do that and are successful.

Everyone's experience will be better if they have some end goal to work towards, not something that is easy enough for them to do. Improve yourself, don't beg for the game to come down to your level.

there's a difference between "as much as possible" and "only 1"
a fine line which you apparently know nothing about
mythic should be just accessible enough that it's still challenging, but not as hard to make it entirely pointless in the game either
which it currently about is.

i want mythic to be exclusive
but saying that "if 1 can do it that's enough" is just plain wrong in a game with millions of players
and if it were like that
not even that 1 would do it anymore

[Sinew]

there's a difference between "as much as possible" and "only 1"
a fine line which you apparently know nothing about
mythic should be just accessible enough that it's still challenging, but not as hard to make it entirely pointless in the game either
which it currently about is.

i want mythic to be exclusive
but saying that "if 1 can do it that's enough" is just plain wrong in a game with millions of players
and if it were like that
not even that 1 would do it anymore

If one guild can do it, assuming they didn't use hacks, exploits, or bots, illegal addons etc, then everyone else can do it. I struggle to think of a situation where only 1 guild would kill it at the end of progression. That means that either the raid has like 25 bosses that are all just as hard as M KJ, so it takes the top guild until almost the last day to kill it, OR the final boss is pretty much impossible (see c'thun pre nerf) and one guild got really lucky number-wise somehow.

What I meant by "only 1" is that once 1 guild kills it, that means many more will follow suit and as such it doesn't need a nerf. The only nerfs that are needed are when a boss is impossible. Other than that, it's just a challenge.

[Marrilaife]

Do you also think that it's a bad decision to have rewards for doing harder content?

Enlighten us what are exactly the amazing rewards for mythic TOS and especially KJ? Because the effort to reward ratio reached pathetic levels, you get no mount, barely better gear than hc thanks to titanforge, so what do you get, 1 achievement and a title (that will be obtainable even after tier / expansion ends, so not really an exclusive reward).

[Kazuchika]

Nice soapboxing from a guy whose guild spent over a month on Avatar before killing it.

[Varolyn]

Since i'm only a heroic raider, I am viewing this from the outside looking in. But it appears that Mythic KJ pre-nerf was just filled with artificial difficulty. The fight just looked unfair with many guild's attempts having no progress on the boss. Mythic raiders I believe enjoy a good challenge, but I don't think any raider enjoys a fight that is nearly impossible to outplay.

[Magicpot]

I assume you're talking about how my attitude is against having as much people as possible experience the content? That's because it's mythic. Not everyone should get to experience it. It's the highest difficulty meant for the most skilled players. If suddenly most players became good enough to clear mythic, I suspect blizzard would buff bosses significantly.

Do you also think that it's a bad decision to have rewards for doing harder content? Many developers besides Blizzard do that and are successful.

Everyone's experience will be better if they have some end goal to work towards, not something that is easy enough for them to do. Improve yourself, don't beg for the game to come down to your level.

Yeah, don't become a businessman.

[shaunika123]

If one guild can do it, assuming they didn't use hacks, exploits, or bots, illegal addons etc, then everyone else can do it. I struggle to think of a situation where only 1 guild would kill it at the end of progression. That means that either the raid has like 25 bosses that are all just as hard as M KJ, so it takes the top guild until almost the last day to kill it, OR the final boss is pretty much impossible (see c'thun pre nerf) and one guild got really lucky number-wise somehow.

What I meant by "only 1" is that once 1 guild kills it, that means many more will follow suit and as such it doesn't need a nerf. The only nerfs that are needed are when a boss is impossible. Other than that, it's just a challenge.

except, here's the thing
the let's say top 10 guilds are practically playing a different game
prenerf KJ and avatar required class stacking on the levels that is quite literally, impossible to do for anyone that isnt in a top 10 raiding guild

it wasnt about how hard the boss was
it was about needing 5 druids and 5 rogues in decked out mythic gear for the bossfights, and if you didnt have that, then good job, you cant kill the boss.

it's not about how well you coordinate, or avoid fire, or do dps, class stacking requirement made the bosses quite literally impossible to do to anyone but the top.
but based on what you're saying, you've no idea how that works, you think everyone just logs in with their main and plays so much better than everyone else in the world, and that's not how it works, at all.

even now KJ is basically unkillable without a warlock, unless there's some special strategy for the middle knockback that im unaware of

[Fleckens]

except, here's the thing
the let's say top 10 guilds are practically playing a different game
prenerf KJ and avatar required class stacking on the levels that is quite literally, impossible to do for anyone that isnt in a top 10 raiding guild

it wasnt about how hard the boss was
it was about needing 5 druids and 5 rogues in decked out mythic gear for the bossfights, and if you didnt have that, then good job, you cant kill the boss.

it's not about how well you coordinate, or avoid fire, or do dps, class stacking requirement made the bosses quite literally impossible to do to anyone but the top.
but based on what you're saying, you've no idea how that works, you think everyone just logs in with their main and plays so much better than everyone else in the world, and that's not how it works, at all.

even now KJ is basically unkillable without a warlock, unless there's some special strategy for the middle knockback that im unaware of

With the nerfs it's quite easy to kill the tank add in time for that and then push him straight after, makes phase 1 a bit easier(not that it was ever a hard part) and you don't need a lock then. That said a lock is still very nice to have as a low mobility class for later orbs just so you don't have to run all the way to the corner, as a shadowpriest I rarely run to the corner as it's just easier to take the portal and it also means I can do things like the first soak after intermission as long as it's close enough to the portal.

[Echocho]

Enlighten us what are exactly the amazing rewards for mythic TOS and especially KJ? Because the effort to reward ratio reached pathetic levels, you get no mount, barely better gear than hc thanks to titanforge, so what do you get, 1 achievement and a title (that will be obtainable even after tier / expansion ends, so not really an exclusive reward).

That's the problem with mythic as a whole in a world where titanforging exist. It's just not worth putting in all that effort, especially if you're part of a guild that takes a while to clear it, then almost all your gear will be titanforged heroic pieces.

[unbound]

https://www.wowprogress.com/

Is this an alltime low completion rate for a hardmode raid?

Only 60 guilds "fully" seeing content. Seems like quite the problem. Blizz needs to rethink tuning the game around Method/Exorsus.

rofl

The vast majority of current players have fully seen the content. An encounter with an additional mechanic is not new content. Everyone who has played it on LFR has seen all of the content.

Mythic+ is not new content. It is not additional content beyond the regular dungeon.

If you want to call it a challenge, I'm all with you....but this is not new content. If I buy your old dumpy car, give a paint job, and then sell it back to you, you did not buy a new car...you have the same old car you used to have with a new paint job.

[Halyon]

Kind of my thoughts....don't people get a huge hardon everytime they post the "bosses who stayed unkilled the longest" lists? 60 guilds = under 2000 peeps out of a few million? What else do you need to feel special?

I was saying it sarcastically though. There's difficulty, and theres' 'ugh'.

[KaPe]

Kind of my thoughts....don't people get a huge hardon everytime they post the "bosses who stayed unkilled the longest" lists? 60 guilds = under 2000 peeps out of a few million? What else do you need to feel special?

Thing is, some of these people haven't even seen the fights in question, while acting as if they knew everything and their whole WoW "reputation" depended on praising such design. The same guys who consider every single nerf an overkill and the same ones who lashed out at Exorsus for daring to complain about KJ. They probably spend rest of their time demanding LFR be removed as well.

Meanwhile, there's a sizeable group of people going "wtf" at Blizzard's intention with ToS - and mythic raiding in general. If even the very top guilds think you're going to far, you need to rethink your approach, armchair raiders opinion be damned.

[Maquegyver]

If I buy your old dumpy car, give a paint job, and then sell it back to you, you did not buy a new car...you have the same old car you used to have with a new paint job.

The more appropriate analogy would be putting a tuned engine and racing tires on the car. Then signing them up for a race. Then expecting some normie driver to be able to race well with it. A paint job would be an appropriate analogy if they only changed KJ's model... nice try though.

Your argument is essentially this: I drove a car. Thus I've seen and experienced everything a professional racer has... Its just a road and a car afterall... No difference at all... See how dumb that is? Of course not.

[KaPe]

...and yet...there are those who would consider this is "how it should be" in all seriousness

Course there are - and the proper course of action is to ignore such people. When even the best guilds in the world disagree with their opinion on mythic raiding, so should Blizzard. If they want to get rid of mythic raiding, they should do it directly, instead of designing absurd bosses that will kill off all hardcore guilds, just some deluded fools can enjoy having the hardest raid ever created. Which they experience by watch from the sidelines and pretending to be uber raiders.

[DekyD]

What in my opinion makes KJ an annoying boss is the amount of class stacking that you need to do on that fight to have an easier time, wish there was a way around that since mechanic wise it's a fun boss.

[Dahij]

Not very useful when so many guilds have disbanded or didn't even bother trying progressing.

If people can't handle a challenge they should just stick to easier difficulties.

[Zyky]

imo tuning as it is is fine for early in the tier,but there should be gradual nerfs over time
kinda like the ICC nerf buffs

The only problem with this is at the rate they've been pushing out new raids, it would take too long to accumulate like the ICC or DS buffs/debuffs. They should just learn that they need to tune around people who aren't the top .1% of guilds because the mythic race has been long dead...2-3 guilds going balls to the wall, especially when they actually believe that they deserve money from Blizzard for being the first to clear raid content(exorsus). At least back in the day there were more guilds actually competing, when the race was something that more than 20-60 people took part in, when US actually had guilds that could hold their own against EU guilds, but that isn't a thing anymore, and it really hasn't been a thing since Cata. They need to realize that they caused a huge mess with all these multiple difficulties and more damage this expansion with Titanforging(especially since they're tuning raids to require you to have a higher raid wide IL than the baseline that the boss actually drops). Overall they need to realize that THEY pushed the majority of the high end community away and they're never going to get it back. They need to start tuning raids and classes for that matter properly because its honestly getting obnoxious seeing Mythic Maiden being such a cakewalk to going to Mythic Fallen Avatar which is just a huge wall for hundreds of guilds who haven't just quit yet.

[Deleted]

Honestly I'd be pretty happy if they upped the difficulty of the earlier mythic bosses so there's not such a huge disparity between the first and last bosses, then upped heroic difficulty to keep a smooth transition.

I think my guild is pretty typical of a large chunk of the player base. This tier we were 8/9 after the 4th week and got KJ on week 7. We only raid twice a week, people can play whatever spec they want and since heroic is flex it's not a big deal if you have other commitments and miss raids some nights. Most of our team are people who played more seriously when they were younger but have work and family now so this freedom is great.

We're stuck in this situation where heroic is a bit too easy, we're clearing it about a quarter to a third of the way through the tier, but the step up to mythic is a bit much. It's constantly a question as to whether we should go into mythic, but by doing so we'd lose a lot of flexibility and would have to take things much more seriously, and even if we did we're obviously going to end up as one of those guilds at 5, maybe 6/9 at the end of the tier. Personally I'd want to either really go for it and finish the tier before the next one releases or not bother at all.

To me this seems like the best of both worlds. The people that really push it have their difficulty, then the rest of us have a difficulty which is still something to actually be proud of completing. The fact that almost twice as many guilds have cleared heroic KJ compared to mythic Goroth would indicate that a lot of other people are in my guild's position. From what I've heard Goroth and Harjatan are considered easier than heroic KJ, if true it means only half of the guilds capable of killing the early mythic bosses actually bother trying. If we could add in cross guild and realm pugs this number would probably look even worse.