Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Kelthos]

I still don't really view those gnome options as viable, highly doubt Blizz would drop playable mechanical gnomes on us, then leper gnomes are almost universally insane so it's a MAYBE at best.

Humans having high elves seems like a sort of shoehorn since it could have just as easily been given to an elven race.

Gilgoblins are an interesting idea if they had ever shown up more than once, as for other cartels, they have universally looked the same, like the high elf subrace idea, the difference would be so subtle that people wouldn't really like it.

Worgen turning into night elves instead of humans would be cool, but that would only really appeal to RPers and only in few situations. But it would probably be one of the easiest things to implement.


Edit: I mean, obviously there are some solid options for a lot of the races. But like four of the races don't have any great options that wouldn't feel forced or so subtle a difference that people wouldn't really even notice.

A lot of subraces might be more viable if they came alongside with increased character customization, but who knows? I'd prefer they not stretch the lore to give something to everybody unless they made new, not terrible lore to explain stuff.

[Ghargatuloth]

A lot of subraces might be more viable if they came alongside with increased character customization, but who knows? I'd prefer they not stretch the lore to give something to everybody unless they made new, not terrible lore to explain stuff.

I guess they could just expand customization, I suppose things like Dark Iron and Wildhammer skins wouldn't really demand a subrace option, especially since normal dwarves can already be shaman and warlock.

Still, I'd be more of a fan of them implementing updated high elves as part of the alliance following Alleria. Maybe with a bit more void themed things like a new racial. Horde on the other hand could get Nightborne through the whole Liadrin interaction, they are already pretty great.

[Hitei]

I guess they could just expand customization, I suppose things like Dark Iron and Wildhammer skins wouldn't really demand a subrace option, especially since normal dwarves can already be shaman and warlock.

Still, I'd be more of a fan of them implementing updated high elves as part of the alliance following Alleria. Maybe with a bit more void themed things like a new racial. Horde on the other hand could get Nightborne through the whole Liadrin interaction, they are already pretty great.

Horde Night Elves will never not be stupid.

[Ghargatuloth]

Horde Night Elves will never not be stupid.

Maybe so, but Lady Liadrin seems to definitely be trying to bring them over to horde.

Edit: Didn't people say something similar about blood elves when they were being added? Just saying.

[Hitei]

Maybe so, but Lady Liadrin seems to definitely be trying to bring them over to horde.

Edit: Didn't people say something similar about blood elves when they were being added? Just saying.

No, Liadrin had one discussion with one Nightborne about how her people dealt with being betrayed was by finding allies (which the Nightfallen already found in the form of Valewalker Farodin, a night elf; and the remnants of the Moon Guard, also night elves), nothing she's done suggests she's trying to bring them over.

And yes people did say something similar, and it's still pretty dumb lore-wise that the Blood Elves joined and stayed with the Horde. Which is part of why they had to to a weird racial split into Blood Elves and High Elves where most of the groups of High Elves continued to be part of the Alliance, and why Alliance-side High Elves continue to be one of the most requested options around.

[Ghargatuloth]

No, Liadrin had one discussion with one Nightborne about how her people dealt with being betrayed was by finding allies (which the Nightfallen already found in the form of Valewalker Farodin, a night elf; and the remnants of the Moon Guard, also night elves), nothing she's done suggests she's trying to bring them over.

And yes people did say something similar, and it's still pretty dumb lore-wise that the Blood Elves joined and stayed with the Horde. Which is part of why they had to to a weird racial split into Blood Elves and High Elves where most of the groups of High Elves continued to be part of the Alliance, and why Alliance-side High Elves continue to be one of the most requested options around.

It's speculation, humor me. They were discussing how they were betrayed yes, and also the affliction they both suffer from. He asked if their alliance with the horde had helped to that end. To which she did vouch for them in that regard. So one might see this as them seeing the horde as possible allies in the future. Not to mention the negative interaction with Tyrande and the night elves. Well, the Alliance aligned ones anyway.

All I'm saying is it's only slightly less subtle than the sunwalker tease. Crazier more lore unfriendly things have happened, not a month before Legion launched people constantly declared we would NEVER have playable Demon Hunters. I understand if you have a bias, but it could happen based off current events.

[lesty]

Humans having high elves seems like a sort of shoehorn since it could have just as easily been given to an elven race.

I dont think its that bad of a shoehorn, culturally they're way closer to humanity than night elves. Although it'd be a bit silly because that's a very unique position to be in.

[Ghargatuloth]

I dont think its that bad of a shoehorn, culturally they're way closer to humanity than night elves. Although it'd be a bit silly because that's a very unique position to be in.

Reminds me, always annoyed me they never updated Arator. Kind of hope the fact that he still looks like just a blood elf isn't a sign that he wont be an important figure in the future.

[Hitei]

It's speculation, humor me. They were discussing how they were betrayed yes, and also the affliction they both suffer from. He asked if their alliance with the horde had helped to that end. To which she did vouch for them in that regard. So one might see this as them seeing the horde as possible allies in the future. Not to mention the negative interaction with Tyrande and the night elves.Well, the alliance aligned ones anyway.

All I'm saying is it's only slightly less subtle than the sunwalker tease. Crazier more lore unfriendly things have happened, not a month before Legion launched people constantly declared we would NEVER have playable Demon Hunters. I understand if you have a bias, but it could happen based off current events.

Look, I'm not disagreeing that it's entirely possible that Blizzard might go that route.

What I am saying is that it would be extremely dumb. And this, "she did vouch for them" bend is exactly the thing that annoys me about people claiming this dialogue as proof. You're suggesting that there was anything to vouch for or that Silgryn was weighing out the Horde as an option, when Silgryn specifically asked if the Horde "served that purpose for you?" If he had said, "and are the Horde trustworthy allies?" Then sure. Absolutely. Totally hinting at them joining. But he didn't, all he did was ask a follow-up question. Add into this that Silgryn, the Nightborne in question, isn't a leader, he's an experienced soldier who helped out as an inside man and then assisted in training new soldiers, and this conversation is pretty much nothing.

And then look at the actual Suramar campaign, which is entirely cenetered around the Arcan'dor, so much so that they stuck it in the middle of the faction hub, and made it the central indicator of how far along in the storyline you were. The whole point of the Arcan'dor, and the campaign in general, is that the Nightborne became obsessed and reliant on arcane power, the same mistake they had made as highborne, and through Valewalker Farodin and the Arcan'dor, they realized that balance is necessary, and that druidic magic can be mixed with raw arcane magic to create something sustainable and balanced.

Which was the Arcan'dor's original purpose, to create this harmony between drudic and arcane magic, which is the legacy that Farodin, the last Valewalker, is passing on to the Nightfallen--and when this legacy is realized and the Nightfallen eat from the tree and are made whole again, Thalyssra, their leader, even comments that this is the start of their age.

Farodin: In the pale moonlight, they formed an order that would seek to bring the arcane into balance - using nature itself as a vessel. Thus the arcan'dor were created.
My masters who belonged to this order have long since faded away. Yet their legacy remains.
Their gift will mend the spirit of the shal'dorei. Let them eat, and be made whole.

Arcanist Valtrois says: Perhaps there is a new path for us after all...

First Arcanist Thalyssra says: We are on the brink of a new age for the Nightborne.

Kinda the whole point of the campaign. It is also exactly what modern Alliance Night Elves stand for, balance between the druidism that became their way of life after the War of the Ancients, and the raw arcane power used by the Shen'dralar, the most revered of the Highborne arcanists who were reintegrated into the Night Elves after the Cataclysm.

That the Nightfallen would just randomly decide to not go the direction of hybrid arcane-druidism that the whole campaign built to, and instead join up with the Horde because Liadrin said they worked out for the Blood Elves is just insane. Not to mention the fact that the Nightborne, and their Moon Guard allies, and Farodin are all Night Elves, not part of the Darnassian ones, sure, but I mean... Are they really going to join the side where the Orcs are fighting and killing their own race?

I just think if this happens it will be a half-assed handwave for the sake of faction balancing Alliance High Elves, that will just make vast amounts of the Suramar campaign story meaningless. It'd be like using the fact that Anduin got along with the Tauren to justify a group of Stormwind humans deciding to join the Horde.

[Ghargatuloth]

Look, I'm not disagreeing that it's entirely possible that Blizzard might go that route.

What I am saying is that it would be extremely dumb. And this, "she did vouch for them" bend is exactly the thing that annoys me about people claiming this dialogue as proof. You're suggesting that there was anything to vouch for or that Silgryn was weighing out the Horde as an option, when Silgryn specifically asked if the Horde "served that purpose for you?" If he had said, "and are the Horde trustworthy allies?" Then sure. Absolutely. Totally hinting at them joining. But he didn't, all he did was ask a follow-up question. Add into this that Silgryn, the Nightborne in question, isn't a leader, he's an experienced soldier who helped out as an inside man and then assisted in training new soldiers, and this conversation is pretty much nothing.

And then look at the actual Suramar campaign, which is entirely cenetered around the Arcan'dor, so much so that they stuck it in the middle of the faction hub, and made it the central indicator of how far along in the storyline you were. The whole point of the Arcan'dor, and the campaign in general, is that the Nightborne became obsessed and reliant on arcane power, the same mistake they had made as highborne, and through Valewalker Farodin and the Arcan'dor, they realized that balance is necessary, and that druidic magic can be mixed with raw arcane magic to create something sustainable and balanced.

Which was the Arcan'dor's original purpose, to create this harmony between drudic and arcane magic, which is the legacy that Farodin, the last Valewalker, is passing on to the Nightfallen--and when this legacy is realized and the Nightfallen eat from the tree and are made whole again, Thalyssra, their leader, even comments that this is the start of their age.

Farodin: In the pale moonlight, they formed an order that would seek to bring the arcane into balance - using nature itself as a vessel. Thus the arcan'dor were created.
My masters who belonged to this order have long since faded away. Yet their legacy remains.
Their gift will mend the spirit of the shal'dorei. Let them eat, and be made whole.

Arcanist Valtrois says: Perhaps there is a new path for us after all...

First Arcanist Thalyssra says: We are on the brink of a new age for the Nightborne.

Kinda the whole point of the campaign. It is also exactly what modern Alliance Night Elves stand for, balance between the druidism that became their way of life after the War of the Ancients, and the raw arcane power used by the Shen'dralar, the most revered of the Highborne arcanists who were reintegrated into the Night Elves after the Cataclysm.

That the Nightfallen would just randomly decide to not go the direction of hybrid arcane-druidism that the whole campaign built to, and instead join up with the Horde because Liadrin said they worked out for the Blood Elves is just insane. Not to mention the fact that the Nightborne, and their Moon Guard allies, and Farodin are all Night Elves, not part of the Darnassian ones, sure, but I mean... Are they really going to join the side where the Orcs are fighting and killing their own race?

I just think if this happens it will be a half-assed handwave for the sake of faction balancing Alliance High Elves, that will just make vast amounts of the Suramar campaign story meaningless. It'd be like using the fact that Anduin got along with the Tauren to justify a group of Stormwind humans deciding to join the Horde.

I'm sorry, you seem a bit hostile towards that phrasing. "Vouch"

But despite what you say, if I were you be in the market for a new brand of computer or something, I would ask someone I knew "Did that brand of computer work out for you?" and if they said it did, if they gave me a great review, I'd CONSIDER getting it. You seem heavily biased, to the point you seem to think I am saying it's a no brainer that the nightborne WILL join the horde. I am NOT saying this. I am just speculating that it could happen and that this conversation could be leading something... I repeat COULD be.

As for the fancy new tree that freed the nightborne of their absolute dependence on the nightwell, we don't know two things for certain. 1. We don't know if it completely cured them or just brought them back to normal elf state. Which would bring me two my second point 2. We don't know how the nightborne society as a whole will choose to act in the future.

If they are just back to being the equivilent of a highborne elf, they will easily become addicted to magic like all other elves and need a font of power to sustain that addiction. It wasn't until recently the night elves even began to tolerate the highborne night elves hanging around them.

But no, yeah, if they are completely cured, maybe they will just join the alliance free from all addiction... Heck, maybe the nightborne and high elves will become neutral and join both factions. Like I said, it's all speculation, I'm mostly just eager to see how this plays out, because while you may believe nightborne are no where near joining anyone, a lot can happen between now and 8.0's launch. For all we know a giant tentacle rises up and slams Surumar into dust.

[Hitei]

I'm sorry, you seem a bit hostile towards that phrasing. "Vouch"

But despite what you say, if I were you be in the market for a new brand of computer or something, I would ask someone I knew "Did that brand of computer work out for you?" and if they said it did, if they gave me a great review, I'd CONSIDER getting it. You seem heavily biased, to the point you seem to think I am saying it's a no brainer that the nightborne WILL join the horde. I am NOT saying this. I am just speculating that it could happen and that this conversation could be leading something... I repeat COULD be.

As for the fancy new tree that freed the nightborne of their absolute dependence on the nightwell, we don't know two things for certain. 1. We don't know if it completely cured them or just brought them back to normal elf state. Which would bring me two my second point 2. We don't know how the nightborne society as a whole will choose to act in the future.

If they are just back to being the equivilent of a highborne elf, they will easily become addicted to magic like all other elves and need a font of power to sustain that addiction. It wasn't until recently the night elves even began to tolerate the highborne night elves hanging around them.

But no, yeah, if they are completely cured, maybe they will just join the alliance free from all addiction... Heck, maybe the nightborne and high elves will become neutral and join both factions. Like I said, it's all speculation, I'm mostly just eager to see how this plays out, because while you may believe nightborne are no where near joining anyone, a lot can happen between now and 8.0's launch. For all we know a giant tentacle rises up and slams Surumar into dust.

That was my point though. The situation you are describing is one where someone might vouch.

The Nightborne one isn't. There's nothing to suggest Silgryn is in the market for new allies. The Nightfallen already have allies. The Moon guard, the outsider, the Sentinels, the Blood Elves, and Dalaran. And this conversation is taking place AFTER their war is done and they are focused on internally rebuilding their own society with the help of the Arcan'dor.

This is like:

Person A (works for google): Man, I'm glad I got this computer, I never knew there were so many cat photos out there, it really makes me realize how limited my view was before.
Person B: Yeah I know what you mean I was really anti-technology for a long time.
Person A: Yeah, it's a really limiting perspective, how did you end up changing your mind?
Person B: I just buckled down and decided I wanted to see cat pictures, and then realized I need way to browse the internet.
Person A: And the iphone served that purpose for you?
Person B: Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong, it has its bad points and it can be pretty awful sometimes, but at the end of the day it lets me google tons of cat pictures.
Person A: I see. Food for thought.

Person A is probably not going to run out and buy an iphone. Why would they? They already have a computer. Person B was hardly vouching for the iphone, they were just explaining how they ended up being able to see cat pictures. Even if Person A decided they wanted a smart phone for viewing more cat pictures, don't you think it's a little more likely they'll buy one from the company (read: Race) they, and a bunch of their friends are already part of, rather than the one the person they just started hanging out with brought up that one time?

There's nothing to suggest that they will become addicted to magic. The whole point of the campaign is removing what forced them into addiction. The Highborne of the Shen'dralar went 10,000 years without becoming harmfully addicted to magic. The Blood Elves are addicted because magic was bred into their DNA over generations. The Nightborne were addicted because their bodies adapted to only accept the Nightwell's energy as a food source after being reliant on it for thousands of years.

But even if they did (there's no reason for them to) why would they turn to the Blood Elves? They already know druidism can stop the addiction, and they have already been saved by druidism. Why would they suddenly go decide to try out being paladins to fix it instead? Again, this is the complete 180 I am talking about. Sure, it could happen, but it would throw the campaign in the trash.

[Ghargatuloth]

That was my point though. The situation you are describing is one where someone might vouch.

The Nightborne one isn't. There's nothing to suggest Silgryn is in the market for new allies. The Nightfallen already have allies. The Moon guard, the outsider, the Sentinels, the Blood Elves, and Dalaran. And this conversation is taking place AFTER their war is done and they are focused on internally rebuilding their own society with the help of the Arcan'dor.

This is like:

Person A (works for google): Man, I'm glad I got this computer, I never knew there were so many cat photos out there, it really makes me realize how limited my view was before.
Person B: Yeah I know what you mean I was really anti-technology for a long time.
Person A: Yeah, it's a really limiting perspective, how did you end up changing your mind?
Person B: I just buckled down and decided I wanted to see cat pictures, and then realized I need way to browse the internet.
Person A: And the iphone served that purpose for you?
Person B: Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong, it has its bad points and it can be pretty awful sometimes, but at the end of the day it lets me google tons of cat pictures.
Person A: I see. Food for thought.

Person A is probably not going to run out and buy an iphone. Why would they? They already have a computer. Person B was hardly vouching for the iphone, they were just explaining how they ended up being able to see cat pictures. Even if Person A decided they wanted a smart phone for viewing more cat pictures, don't you think it's a little more likely they'll buy one from the company (read: Race) they, and a bunch of their friends are already part of, rather than the one the person they just started hanging out with brought up that one time?

There's nothing to suggest that they will become addicted to magic. The whole point of the campaign is removing what forced them into addiction. The Highborne of the Shen'dralar went 10,000 years without becoming harmfully addicted to magic. The Blood Elves are addicted because magic was bred into their DNA over generations. The Nightborne were addicted because their bodies adapted to only accept the Nightwell's energy as a food source after being reliant on it for thousands of years.

But even if they did (there's no reason for them to) why would they turn to the Blood Elves? They already know druidism can stop the addiction, and they have already been saved by druidism. Why would they suddenly go decide to try out being paladins to fix it instead? Again, this is the complete 180 I am talking about. Sure, it could happen, but it would throw the campaign in the trash.

You do realize you are skewing things far more than anyone else is? I mean, the argument you just posed implies that person B isn't one to take advice from and that person A has already chosen something. But in reality the nightborne just lost an "alliance" with the Legion and are potentially in the market for one now that the world is open to them.

As for the addiction of elves, even night elves easily become addicted to magic, it's been a thing since the war of the ancients, it's part of the reason a lot of shit went wrong and why Malfurion banished the elves that actively used magic.

Also the sunwell is a better cure for elves addiction than druidism. Light and all that...

Either way, I'm not looking to enter a paradoxical argument on this, I am mostly hoping to hear what other people's speculation on what -could- happen in the coming expansion, rather than why my idea is apparently trash and will never happen. What do you hope will come? New race/class/subraces/new specs?

[Hitei]

You do realize you are skewing things far more than anyone else is? I mean, the argument you just posed implies that person B isn't one to take advice from and that person A has already chosen something. But in reality the nightborne just lost an "alliance" with the Legion and are potentially in the market for one now that the world is open to them.

As for the addiction of elves, even night elves easily become addicted to magic, it's been a thing since the war of the ancients, it's part of the reason a lot of shit went wrong and why Malfurion banished the elves that actively used magic.

No, the argument I posted is that the two people just recently met and there's very little reason for the first to go buy an iphone.

The addiction of the Highborne =/= the addiction of the Blood Elves and Nightborne. You are comparing being "addicted" to computer gaming with being hardcore addicted to heroin. Again, look at the Shen'dralar, they are Highborne. They are the Highborne who were most active in using large amounts of magic, and they continued to use large amounts of magic for ten thousand years after the sundering. They are fine. There is no reason why the Nightborne would suddenly become addicted to arcane magic in the span of a few months.

Also the sunwell is a better cure for elves addiction than druidism. Light and all that...

Based on what? And again, they are already cured. There is no addiction to cure and there is no reason to believe the Light would somehow be better at it than druidic magic, which has already cured them fine.

Either way, I'm not looking to enter a paradoxical argument on this, I am mostly hoping to hear what other people's speculation on what -could- happen in the coming expansion, rather than why my idea is apparently trash and will never happen. What do you hope will come? New race/class/subraces/new specs?

I think subraces are vastly overrated, honestly. There are some interesting ones around (vrykul, mechagnomes, earthen, alternate undead races for the Forsaken, etc.) but most of them basically amount to new skins and a handful of new feature options for most races. That's pretty lame, especially if it's in lieu of actual races. It'd be nice to see one of the more exotic requested races implemented as a full race. Ethereals, Naga, Arrakkoa, Ogres.

I just want a neato expansion that takes place in an Underdark/Darklands, vast underground and underwater set of spaces.

And Bard or Necromancer.

[Ghargatuloth]

<snip>

Are you aware you can voice your opinion without bashing something else in the process?

Anyways, last statement I am going to make on the past argument, the sunwell after being renewed has essentially cured the blood elves of their addiction, they no longer have that issue at all. All the while druidism has never prior to Legion granted any path to cure magical addiction. That's why what I was saying is maybe it didn't so much as cure their addiction entirely, so much as break their dependence on the Aman'thul Well. We will see.

As for your race suggestion, I would literally welcome all of those, I feel like ogres should have been part of the horde from the start, or maybe added in BC. I mean... Come on, they are in Dustwallow already friendly to us. Naga I would love to see work out somehow, the mount issue always pops to mind though, but I mean... I guess they could all ride side saddle or something. With the new update to ethereals they are pretty front and center, possibly going to be a focal point of the upcoming expansion so I can see that happening as well.

...Hate Arrakkoa though, more than anything, but that's just a personal bias. Never liked birds or the noises they make.

Underdark/Darklands is largely unknown to me, the only bit of that I know of is the area below Northrend the nerubians come from. Are there any other really noteworthy zones that could be central to an underground plot?

Bard by Blizzard... Unsure, I'd be curious to how they would try to pull it off.

Necromancer though, I would love to see. Was actually thinking about that recently, the possibility of them combining Shadow Hunter, Dark Ranger, and Necromancer into a single mail wearing class. You don't have to tell me though, I know it's highly unlikely, but I'd personally welcome it.

[Deleted]

I hope the creation of a new engine is a part of the next expansion. That'd be rad.

[Deleted]

No he's right, he pretty much showed we know how Legion ends.

No, he is not cause we DONT know how legion ends. All we know is that Illidan sacrifices himself to imprison Sageras but that aint the end....

[Ghargatuloth]

I hope the creation of a new engine is a part of the next expansion. That'd be rad.

Yea, that'd be great, but unfortunately it'd probably be as well received as the visual update for the older races. Not to mention they'd need to literally remake the entire game. Then some people might not like how the new engine handles or plays, since speaking of the visual update, they left in the option to use the old appearances if people preferred.

[Drekmar]

Horde Night Elves will never not be stupid.

Yea, I don't think we are getting any new playable races or subraces. Nor a new class.

[Ghargatuloth]

Yea, I don't think we are getting any new playable races or subraces. Nor a new class.

What do you think we'll be getting then? Some kind of new specs or something?

[randomnamegenerator16]

Well, when it comes to Silgryn, he does join Horde characters at the start of Argus opening quest line. He's on the Blood Elf ship that swims to Exodar.