WoW: The RPG Without Customization

[Deleted]

There was never any customization in terms of talents.

Look at some of the vanilla class guides and you'll se.

Theory crafters will always find the most optimal build and playstyle no matter how hard you make it for them.

[Gardoc]

Don't bother making this thread. Most of the users on here are already casualized into wanting a less fun game.
MMORPG's have changed for good due the new playerbase. To those who do not wanna spend hours in dungeons and raids. Those who don't wanna make their own talent choices and to those who don't wanna walk forever to get to something.

The game is dumped down for good and no it is not good thing. But sadly WoW can never go back to the old ways, since we are all used to it by now.

Sadly. WoW is on a train to it's GY slowly. Mainly due the new playerbase changing the MMORPG genre into garbage.

This! I agree so much, modern MMORPG players are like brainwashed. "Please Blizzard remove all this content and spells because it is useless for us and we are triggered because some people actually use it."

[Queen of Hamsters]

Sure it does. Not a single one of my characters, not even those sharing class and race between each other, are the exact same. Specs, talents, glyphs (true customization, not tied to performance) and so on makes it possible to vary the characters. Coupled with transmog.

Player housing is overrated. They went with giving us class halls with the social element intact instead.

Legion is the most MMORPG this game has ever been, FYI.

And when using pre-MoP talent trees as an argument for "this game has lost customization", you've already lost.

[Mafic]

-Removal of Hybrid Talents
-Removal of Talent Trees
-Removal of Gems in every piece of gear and Meta gem
-Removal of Glyphs
-Removal of Reforging
-PvP Templates
-Artifact Weapon (same skills for everyone)

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Anyone else feels sad about the fact that "Customization" is frowned upon by Blizzard?
Imagination, experimentation and testing are pretty much forbidden and replaced by a standard gameplay everyone must play.

The excuse of Blizzard is "there is always a cookie cutter build"
I agree that in PvE-single target damage there is always a "cookie cutter" build of "stand still and do the most DPS"
But for PvP and World Content...there are always a million different choices you can take to be optimal. (Utility, Survival, Burst, Hybrid etc)
I call bullcrap on this excuse and i say they removed customization because is just easier to balance the game from day one.

• Was it really necessary to remove all types of customization from the game just because "there is always a cookie cutter build for single target PvE"?
  
• What about coming up with crazy new stuff that, if not optimal, it could be the gameplay you enjoy the most?
  
• Isn't "Customization" essential for a good RPG experience?

Anyway, i know we are way past that point and customization is never coming back strong (Netherlight Crucible, just a little taste) I just wanted to know if anyone else feels as sad as me on this topic.

Yes.

WoW is already in its death spiral because of it.

[Queen of Hamsters]

it is actually quite logical why they do it. The new generation isn't interested in doing things themself. In having to make choices in what to pick. They want the easiest way to get good. They want it all handed to them without having to worry on what to pick etc.

Blizzard knows this is the biggest market players right now so they adept to them. Sadly, destroying the playerbase they have right now.

That is why WoW is dying faster and faster. New generation doesn't like Wow since it still takes a bit of time in doing things. They want to play 30 min long games and repeat.

Due to the changes, not only new ones leave as fast as they come but also the old ones leave faster as they come back.

Meanwhile: Legion.

Your whining is hilariously incorrect and outdated. Also, "WoW is dying faster and faster" has only been said since Classic to support some Negative Nate's narrative as to why the game not catering to HIM = the game can't sustain itself and live on...

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Yes.

WoW is already in its death spiral because of it.

This argument was retarded back in WOTLK, it's equally retarded now. I bet we'll see the same people sing this same song 10 years from now as well, with the game just trucking along.

[Mafic]

Meanwhile: Legion.

Your whining is hilariously incorrect and outdated. Also, "WoW is dying faster and faster" has only been said since Classic to support some Negative Nate's narrative.

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This argument was retarded back in WOTLK, it's equally retarded now. I bet we'll see the same people sing this same song 10 years from now as well, with the game just trucking along.

WotLK didn't have pruning but nice try.

[Queen of Hamsters]

WotLK didn't have pruning but nice try.

Ah, you're one of the "durr pruning" people.

GG failing to see the forest for nothing but trees.

[Gimlix]

Meanwhile: Legion.

Your whining is hilariously incorrect and outdated. Also, "WoW is dying faster and faster" has only been said since Classic to support some Negative Nate's narrative.

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This argument was retarded back in WOTLK, it's equally retarded now.

Not really. WoW is actually in a horrible state and obv you WoW fanboys on here will never agree on it.
If you think WoW is in a better place then it was before, then you're lying to yourself.

And if you actually legit think WoW is doing better then the older days, then enlighten me.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Not really. WoW is actually in a horrible state and obv you WoW fanboys on here will never agree on it.
If you think WoW is in a better place then it was before, then you're lying to yourself.

And if you actually legit think WoW is doing better then the older days, then enlighten me.

WoW is in the best MMORPG-state it's ever been, actually. We have people complain daily about "having" to do things rather than being able to just raid-log and win at the game like in previous expansions.

You not enjoying something =/= it's impossible to enjoy for a fact. Get over yourself.
What's worse than a "blind fanboy"? A mindless hater throwing out wrongful points of arguments trying to mask the fact that his feels are the only thing he's got to go by as he pretends that the game (his ex) can't stand without him.

[seleri]

I can sympathize with the folks that don't care about the optimal way to play and just want more choice. I don't think going back to the old talent trees is the solution though. All they boiled down to, for the most part, was picking which abilities you wanted to go for down the tree and then filling in inconsequential talents until you reached those abilities.

Most of what's listed in the OP are things that didn't add much meaningful customization and seem like "busy work" to me, just stuff like +5% damage to X ability which never really made my character feel more unique than anyone else. I always loved the concept of a frostfire mage though and would love to see things like that make a return in some form. I also wish they'd lean more into things like Clawing Shadows for unholy DKs - add more ranged talents so you could then play unholy as either melee or ranged.

So yeah, we definitely need more customization that's meaningful but I disagree that WoW has less than it did before. Overall I'd personally prefer more varied gameplay even at the cost of it being less balanced, but I doubt that's ever going to happen with so much focus put on raiding.

[Deleted]

WoW is already in its death spiral

Yes.

because of it.

No.

[Otaka]

I'm not sure most of you spamming this bullshit have even played actual RPGs outside of Wow.

Yes we all have, WoW is an mmo so by default it has to sacrifice some rpg-specific elements to make it a working mmo.
But all those RPG-elements that DID exist long time ago are no longer there, or they have been suppressed to very minimal customization.


The new talent trees are even worse than the old ones, in every way... sure you have cool talents to choose from but the difference in performance is massive... if you dont play optimal build you will lose significant amounts of dps... at mythic level raiding, playing with the best talents is obvious but when you go look at the majority of the playerbase you should be able to build your character the way you want to play it.
Raid boss designs and legendaries and tier sets make it even harder to play what you want. (legendaries alone can have the difference of multiple 100k's of dps... which is huge considering before nighthold the dps numbers were around 300k-800k dps depending on encounter, ilevel and player specific skill)

Casuals dont give a crap about performance, they play the game the way its supposed to be played... for fun. Games are for entertainment, not so you can prove other people you are the best in the world... IN A VIDEO GAME. Ofcourse people are competitive so some will end up trying to be the best but it shouldnt be forced on the rest.

Older talents and classes might have been forced on specific roles in raids but thats when balancing comes in... blizzard could have spent a little time and buff/nerf those classes so they become viable, instead of completely revamping everyone in every expansion. Ofcourse its fun to get a new playstyle and cool new stuff every once in a while... but its not a viable argument by anyone to say only a specific class was tank or a specific class cant dps back in the day, its easy to make them viable... it wasnt the talents or the design that made them not viable, it was the numbers. They just were too weak in practice when taking boss hits.

[Gimlix]

WoW is in the best MMORPG-state it's ever been, actually. We have people complain daily about "having" to do things rather than being able to just raid-log and win at the game like in previous expansions.

You not enjoying something =/= it's impossible to enjoy for a fact. Get over yourself.
What's worse than a "blind fanboy"? A mindless hater throwing out wrongful points of arguments trying to mask the fact that his feels are the only thing he's got to go by as he pretends that the game (his ex) can't stand without him.

1. Game is very much dumped down version of it's glory days. So fuck off with alot to do. I am a 8 year old WoW player and i seen every new feature out there.
2. Farming never ending things, is not content. It's a demanded grind for people to become stronger and once the new patch arrives Blizzard always gives a "Fuck you" by giving casuals instantly the things some people actually farmed for.
3. There is ALOT more dead zones then ever. The new phasing feature is in a terrible state and Blizzard is barely doing anything about it.
4. 7.2 was ment to be a big patch and guess what? WoW actually barely felt any old players returning for it. Wanna know why? 7.2 was a massive letdown.


I gotta admit i haven't tried 7.3 yet due the reasons that 7.2 dissapointed me so much i actually quit for first time in 8 years. But i talked to friends and they told me it is basically like 7.2 (Gonna try it out myself though)

Anyways. If you seriously think WoW is in a better state, because some fanboys are yelling "NOO I GOT SO MUCH TO DO" then nevermind, there is no point in talking.

Edit: And the dance studios at the AH is an example that Blizzard is only doing most random related things right now.
WoW has alot of things that needs to be improved yet they barely do that. Example leveling, Phasing, PvP etc.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Yes we all have, WoW is an mmo so by default it has to sacrifice some rpg-specific elements to make it a working mmo.
But all those RPG-elements that DID exist long time ago are no longer there, or they have been suppressed to very minimal customization.


The new talent trees are even worse than the old ones, in every way... sure you have cool talents to choose from but the difference in performance is massive... if you dont play optimal build you will lose significant amounts of dps... at mythic level raiding, playing with the best talents is obvious but when you go look at the majority of the playerbase you should be able to build your character the way you want to play it.
Raid boss designs and legendaries and tier sets make it even harder to play what you want. (legendaries alone can have the difference of multiple 100k's of dps... which is huge considering before nighthold the dps numbers were around 300k-800k dps depending on encounter, ilevel and player specific skill)

Casuals dont give a crap about performance, they play the game the way its supposed to be played... for fun. Games are for entertainment, not so you can prove other people you are the best in the world... IN A VIDEO GAME. Ofcourse people are competitive so some will end up trying to be the best but it shouldnt be forced on the rest.

Older talents and classes might have been forced on specific roles in raids but thats when balancing comes in... blizzard could have spent a little time and buff/nerf those classes so they become viable, instead of completely revamping everyone in every expansion. Ofcourse its fun to get a new playstyle and cool new stuff every once in a while... but its not a viable argument by anyone to say only a specific class was tank or a specific class cant dps back in the day, its easy to make them viable... it wasnt the talents or the design that made them not viable, it was the numbers. They just were too weak in practice when taking boss hits.

People not bothered by performance can spec into talents they enjoy, talents that often impact how their spec plays and functions.

There, customization. A return to the old talent trees wouldn't bring more customization, it'd just bring back the old system where people giving a shit would utilize cookie-cutter specs, and the plebs would be running around with subpar specs. Not different from today, in other words, just older.

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1. Game is very much dumped down version of it's glory days. So fuck off with alot to do. I am a 8 year old WoW player and i seen every new feature out there. *snip of drivel*

.

You're in a thread bitching about lack of MMORPG-features, but then resort to bitching about MMORPG features with the usual "hurr it's not content durr"-fallacy.

You're right, there's no point talking to someone like you. See you 10 years from now on these forums, singing your same sad song as the game just keeps on ticking.

I don't even know what "dumped down" means, but Legion is not in any shape or form a "dumbed down" version of this game. On the contrary.

[XDurionX]

There hasn't been any customization in any of thoe points. You did it the best way, or you did it wrong.

[Pull My Finger]

Well the Devs can start with removing enrage timers/mechanics from bosses and timers from instances, THEN when people do not have to race against the clock, can new ideas be brought into the game.

Can't really disagree on that one.

[Gimlix]

People not bothered by performance can spec into talents they enjoy, talents that often impact how their spec plays and functions.

There, customization. A return to the old talent trees wouldn't bring more customization, it'd just bring back the old system where people giving a shit would utilize cookie-cutter specs, and the plebs would be running around with subpar specs. Not different from today, in other words, just older.

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You're in a thread bitching about lack of MMORPG-features, but then resort to bitching about MMORPG features.

You're right, there's no point talking to someone like you. See you 10 years from now on these forums, singing your same sad song as the game just keeps on ticking.

I don't even know what "dumped down" means, but Legion is not in any shape or form a "dumbed down" version of this game.

HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH. You're telling me, my bitching about the "Dance studios" counters my post? You are so hiliarous.
And that is why at this point i will no longer take you serious if you legit count Dance studios as a feature.

The reason i'm negative towards WoW atm is due the main reason: Blizzard has pretty much given up on WoW and put it on auto pilot. It is even more obvious to see each patch and expansion.

They don't actually improve the game anymore, just add silly things that nobody actually asked for.

Anyways i already noticed you are not someone you can argument with.

[Deleted]

You can't just pick the parts you agree with and say it checks out while ignoring the parts that don't

then how come you are allowed to do that to CLAIM wow aint an rpg?

[Evaddon]

None of the things you listed make an RPG an RPG, that's just lack of customizing playstyle
WoW has never really been an RPG in the standard of senses, and even less in advanced RPG style. Its just not what the game is or has ever been. The world is basically nonexistent without player interaction. NPC's don't do anything or say anything but stand around and wait to be clicked on, the character customization is severely lacking if you're looking to say this is an RPG....its lacking so many fundamentals of an RPG

[Queen of Hamsters]

HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH. You're telling me, my bitching about the "Dance studios" counters my post? You are so hiliarous.
And that is why at this point i will no longer take you serious if you legit count Dance studios as a feature.

The reason i'm negative towards WoW atm is due the main reason: Blizzard has pretty much given up on WoW and put it on auto pilot. It is even more obvious to see each patch and expansion.

They don't actually improve the game anymore, just add silly things that nobody actually asked for.

Anyways i already noticed you are not someone you can argument with.

... Dance studio? Who the hell mentioned dance studios?

Just further proof of how little weight you have behind your points of whinge I suppose, when you have to make up points of discussion...
Yet another sad one unable to see the forest for nothing but trees. Have fun with that. Legion is one of the most innovative, content-rich, RPG-esque expansions this game has ever enjoyed in my 10 years of playing.