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  1. #21
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Well yeah because anybody thinking these extreme could work positivelly does think well enough to anticipate the problems. A market with no rules doesent work, because even capitalism with rules proven that markets share eventually merge into the strongest player to remove all its competition hence maximize its capital gains. Which is why governments right now prevent monopolies to happen in most cases. Anarchy removes the laws of government meaning anarchy capitalism would infact not endure, eventualy monopolies would control markets and it wouldnt be anarchy anymore because someone is in control.
    It isn't so much an issue of "Extremes" IMHO. After all I'd say often any political project has outcomes one did not necessarily expect to happen, possibly even producing the opposite of what one might envision an action would cause. Reducing the State would produce a society, but not the society AnCaps expect. This may also go for AnComs (Anarcho-Communists) as well. There would still be society, rules, law and power but where that power rests would be different but familiar to anyone who studied the past to any great detail.

    But I would say the tendency for things to pan out in unexpected ways can go to anyone's big project. This would include the much beloved Radical Alt-Centrists and eager Neo-Liberals/Conservatives.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    I think many AnCaps (Anarcho-Capitalist adherents) believe firmly that if the State were absent it could free Capitalism to its maximum potential, but in all likelihood it would make it again non-workable since the collective loyalty of ones family or community would become entirely critical for survival. But maybe I'm wrong and glorious AnCapistan would be wonderful Free Market Utopia. XD
    I don't know about all that. What I know is that without state enforcement of anti-monopoly measures and stuff capitalism basically won't function.

  3. #23
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butter Emails View Post
    Congrats on your revelation.

    The "magic hand of the free market" exists solely to fist you in the ass. Many will argue otherwise, that a structureless capitalist anarchy would sort itself out. And yet we've already been there. Ancient kings were only as such because with no rules, they amassed wealth using their power and influence. Without structure or rules, they took what they wanted and then created their own structures and rules. Just like we're seeing today. But people keep on insisting on deregulation. Oh well, guess the trickle downers will get what's coming to them.
    For this thread I'll unignore/unblock you; mostly because I have to ask, much as I asked of Endus; can you cite a single example of me being a "Free Marketeer"? I ask with all sincerity because I find this "Congrats on your revelation" to be rather odd. I don't believe I have ever said a single "FREE MARKET!!11!" post like ever, and I know for the last ten months I haven't had a sip of alcohol so I couldn't have gotten black out drunk to suddenly be for that sort of thing. So I ask, why imply that the OP I wrote is some sudden revelation of mine when I've (I believe anyway) been fairly consistently critical of Capitalism?
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    It isn't so much an issue of "Extremes" IMHO. After all I'd say often any political project has outcomes one did not necessarily expect to happen, possibly even producing the opposite of what one might envision an action would cause. Reducing the State would produce a society, but not the society AnCaps expect. This may also go for AnComs (Anarcho-Communists) as well. There would still be society, rules, law and power but where that power rests would be different but familiar to anyone who studied the past to any great detail.

    But I would say the tendency for things to pan out in unexpected ways can go to anyone's big project. This would include the much beloved Radical Alt-Centrists and eager Neo-Liberals/Conservatives.
    I think there is a slight difference with them. First many of them believe in a system thats currently working, but like everything you cant anticipate every human reactions ever or social development. As i said a few weeks ago in another thread as an example. the centrists of today are the conservatives of tomorrow. Conservatism is an unending losing fight that simply slow downs reformism in its track into changes. But in the end time always make them lose and a new standard is made and the people defending these new standard from changes in the future will be the new conservatism. Its even evident among different countries. The united states still have conservatism rambling about abortion, when its cousin up north Canada has no political movement even mention abortion since the 90s, yet Canada has its own conservatism movement, its just further along on its social conservatism on most issues.

    Another thing is a personal rule of mine when talking politics with others. The further you get from the center, the less likely human can make these absolute work the larger the group is. Anarcho communism can work very well with a handful of people, a family, you get the point. It means you all freely share everything, and everyone participate of freewill and never do anything that would warrant having anybody or anything set any rules. It just takes one or a group of assholes to mess it up and force something to grab power or make rules.

    Anarcho communism is similar, it can work with a handful of people making markets. It simply require the baker will not take over another bakerery out of his free will in order to keep the competition between them healthy.

    Can a totalitarian regime work?well yes with a handful of people again it can work. As long as who ever is in charge is perfectly well intentioned and everyone never even needs to question this power, because it is so perfectly used even without freedom, people are ruled to do exactly what they wanted to do anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    For this thread I'll unignore/unblock you; mostly because I have to ask, much as I asked of Endus; can you cite a single example of me being a "Free Marketeer"? I ask with all sincerity because I find this "Congrats on your revelation" to be rather odd. I don't believe I have ever said a single "FREE MARKET!!11!" post like ever, and I know for the last ten months I haven't had a sip of alcohol so I couldn't have gotten black out drunk to suddenly be for that sort of thing. So I ask, why imply that the OP I wrote is some sudden revelation of mine when I've (I believe anyway) been fairly consistently critical of Capitalism?
    You never struck me personally as a free marketeer and i share many viewpoints with Endus many times. I usually enjoy at least reading your posts, you simply struck me as a more theorycrafting political science type of person often, but i suppose its hard to grasp someone political view simply reading forum posts, its hard to read when ever someone is seriously considering something viable or simply making an argument to expose a different theory of theirs.

    I dont think its even possible to find a real free marketeer on these forums, anybody claiming to be one, probably dont even know what that even means, because they are already dumb enough to not realize how they are supporting destroying their own interest in the future.
    Last edited by minteK917; 2017-09-17 at 03:28 PM.

  5. #25
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    I think there is a slight difference with them. First many of them believe in a system thats currently working, but like everything you cant anticipate every human reactions ever or social development. As i said a few weeks ago in another thread as an example. the centrists of today are the conservatives of tomorrow. Conservatism is an unending losing fight that simply slow downs reformism in its track into changes. But in the end time always make them lose and a new standard is made and the people defending these new standard from changes in the future will be the new conservatism. Its even evident among different countries. The united states still have conservatism rambling about abortion, when its cousin up north Canada has no political movement even mention abortion since the 90s, yet Canada has its own conservatism movement, its just further along on its social conservatism on most issues.

    Another thing is a personal rule of mine when talking politics with others. The further you get from the center, the less likely human can make these absolute work the larger the group is. Anarcho communism can work very well with a handful of people, a family, you get the point. It means you all freely share everything, and everyone participate of freewill and never do anything that would warrant having anybody or anything set any rules. It just takes one or a group of assholes to mess it up and force something to grab power or make rules.

    Anarcho communism is similar, it can work with a handful of people making markets. It simply require the baker will not take over another bakerery out of his free will in order to keep the competition between them healthy.

    Can a totalitarian regime work?well yes with a handful of people again it can work. As long as who ever is in charge is perfectly well intentioned and everyone never even needs to question this power, because it is so perfectly used even without freedom, people are ruled to do exactly what they wanted to do anyway.
    That is a rather dualistic view of politics though. Centrism is not a non-Ideology but is an ideology. The ideology of power at present. Far from being for reform or against it, Centrism is inherently just "For the status quo" structure. The chart is completely fictitious since effectively Centrism is just "In agreement with the consensus of the powerful." An actual moderate is someone who can engage in syncreticism of ideas that might be very different or hail from very different camps. The issue with your view is it seems you have an "Arc of History" view of how things work. I.E. a Never ending "March of Progress" that those mean ol' conservatives slow down. Centrists are however neither moderate nor are they non-ideological. I also do not subscribe to your view of time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taso View Post
    It's subjective.
    According to this website http://capitalism.org/category/anarchism/
    Ancaps are not really capitalist. Since anarchism does away with property protection I.e the government passes laws that ensure that property specifically private is protected without it anyone and everyone can claim that land and their would be no license or contract which a person has to abide too because their is no government to write laws and no federal police to ensure those laws.
    Anarchism in all forms seeks to eliminate hierarchy. It is an archy. Any system that reinforces hierarchy cannot be anarchistic. Ancaps are nkt anarchists theyve merely coopted the term. Private property is tyranical hierarchy of the grossest order
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  7. #27
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    You never struck me personally as a free marketeer and i share many viewpoints with Endus many times. I usually enjoy at least reading your posts, you simply struck me as a more theorycrafting political science type of person often, but i suppose its hard to grasp someone political view simply reading forum posts, its hard to read when ever someone is seriously considering something viable or simply making an argument to expose a different theory of theirs.

    I dont think its even possible to find a real free marketeer on these forums, anybody claiming to be one, probably dont even know what that even means, because they are already dumb enough to not realize how they are supporting destroying their own interest in the future.
    In the case of Butter Emails, and Endus, as with others, I was curious simply why they make such a dumb assumption and strawman. Especially since I can tell Butter Emails clearly follows me around and posts in about every thread I make or post in, much as GennGreymane ect. Out of morbid curiosity I unblocked him simply to see what and once again this curious assumption that I am some "FREE MARKET11111" person. Endus leveled the same strawman charge, and I am fairly confident neither can back up the claim.

    As for peoples posting persona's, what you've said about me may be the nicest post ever said about me on these forums. But I think most forum persona's are amped up for effect. This thread will likely get nowhere near as many posts as the fifteenth "FUCK DRUMPF11!!1eleven!" post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Anarchism in all forms seeks to eliminate hierarchy. It is an archy. Any system that reinforces hierarchy cannot be anarchistic. Ancaps are nkt anarchists theyve merely coopted the term. Private property is tyranical hierarchy of the grossest
    It would eliminate A hierarchy, but not all hierarchy. A primal form of hierarchy would take its place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    In the case of Butter Emails, and Endus, as with others, I was curious simply why they make such a dumb assumption and strawman. Especially since I can tell Butter Emails clearly follows me around and posts in about every thread I make or post in, much as GennGreymane ect. Out of morbid curiosity I unblocked him simply to see what and once again this curious assumption that I am some "FREE MARKET11111" person. Endus leveled the same strawman charge, and I am fairly confident neither can back up the claim.

    As for peoples posting persona's, what you've said about me may be the nicest post ever said about me on these forums. But I think most forum persona's are amped up for effect. This thread will likely get nowhere near as many posts as the fifteenth "FUCK DRUMPF11!!1eleven!" post.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It would eliminate A hierarchy, but not all hierarchy. A primal form of hierarchy would take its place.
    Anarchists are not in favor of any hierarchy. Its literally in the name.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  9. #29
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Anarchists are not in favor of any hierarchy. Its literally in the name.
    I didn't say they are in-favor of it, only that it would happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  10. #30
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    In the case of Butter Emails, and Endus, as with others, I was curious simply why they make such a dumb assumption and strawman. Especially since I can tell Butter Emails clearly follows me around and posts in about every thread I make or post in, much as GennGreymane ect. Out of morbid curiosity I unblocked him simply to see what and once again this curious assumption that I am some "FREE MARKET11111" person. Endus leveled the same strawman charge, and I am fairly confident neither can back up the claim.

    As for peoples posting persona's, what you've said about me may be the nicest post ever said about me on these forums. But I think most forum persona's are amped up for effect. This thread will likely get nowhere near as many posts as the fifteenth "FUCK DRUMPF11!!1eleven!" post.
    Sounds like you have a personal issue that has nothing to do with real arguments.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    thread will likely get nowhere near as many posts as the fifteenth "FUCK DRUMPF11!!1eleven!" post.
    Well, to be fair at least it might not turn into a two sided cancer as quickly as the trump threads either. I remember when i made a thread in defense of understanding Marx instead of thinking he started some kind of genocide lol. The thread had a bunch of people at least posting well, aside from the idiots that can only think: Wow OP said Marx wasent santa himself, must be a communist! I really dont take these people seriously or personally. At the end of the day, i can defend the view points i do not hold simply because as a human i am gifted with empathy.
    Last edited by minteK917; 2017-09-17 at 03:58 PM.

  12. #32
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Well, to be fair at least it might not turn into a two sided cancer as quickly as the trump threads either.
    One can only hope.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  13. #33
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taso View Post
    It's subjective.
    According to this website http://capitalism.org/category/anarchism/
    Ancaps are not really capitalist. Since anarchism does away with property protection I.e the government passes laws that ensure that property specifically private is protected without it anyone and everyone can claim that land and their would be no license or contract which a person has to abide too because their is no government to write laws and no federal police to ensure those laws.
    This is why it gets muddled with the free market.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Well, to be fair at least it might not turn into a two sided cancer as quickly as the trump threads either. I remember when i made a thread in defense of understanding Marx instead of thinking he started some kind of genocide lol. The thread had a bunch of people at least posting well, aside from the idiots that can only think: Wow OP said Marx wasent santa himself, must be a communist! I really dont take these people seriously or personally. At the end of the day, i can defend the view points i do not hold simply because as a human i am gifted with empathy.
    Two 'sided cancer' has no meaning and if you have empathy for the 'other side' of politics, you already cannot objectively see what it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    I didn't say they are in-favor of it, only that it would happen.
    You mean tribalism?
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    Why does Theo always seem to want to give something unlimited power?
    Hey, this time it can actually work ;D

  15. #35
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mittens View Post
    Hey, this time it can actually work ;D
    Will Theo give me the unlimited power? That will make sure it works.

  16. #36
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    You mean tribalism?
    Well if the legal structures that make transactional relationships proliferate are no longer present likely ones life will depend a lot more on ones relational interactions with other people. You could call this a tribalism if you like, but that comes with a lot of connotations, some of which are racist.

    Ones relational bonds becomes infinitely more important without those legal structures.
    Last edited by Theodarzna; 2017-09-17 at 04:15 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Anarchists are not in favor of any hierarchy. Its literally in the name.
    Anarchist may not be in favor of hierarchy but it does not stop others from attempting and or doing.
    The same idea with communism which could very well be anarchist. If the state withers and dies then everyone can form their own society and rules which means that rebirth of a state is possible. Those who fled can come back now knowing that the dictatorship is gone and that socialism is no longer in existance thus reimplanting the old ways with a lesson on stopping another revolt. Thus a new cycle begins.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    I didn't say they are in-favor of it, only that it would happen.
    Consented hierarchy, totaly different from normal hierarchy. Get it right pls.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post


    if you have empathy for the 'other side' of politics, you already cannot objectively see what it is.
    First no human is objective. Second: Empathy is the capacity to understand or feel what another person is experiencing from within the other person's frame of reference. With the right frame of reference, i can even understand people joining ISIS. It doesent mean i have to agree with it or do it myself. But yes i can understand what is going in their heads even if its wrong.

    I am against prolife argument in the united states. But i can definitively see where its coming from, see how their religion still hold them to that belief for the most part without proper education or in the case of politician, scoring points with this is worth it for reelection when ever they even believe in what they are saying or not. My stance is the stance of my own country on the case of abortion, it is legal and doctors are the final authority on when ever it is no longer safe to practice.

  20. #40
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mittens View Post
    Consented hierarchy, totaly different from normal hierarchy. Get it right pls.
    Hierarchy is hierarchy, that is a distinction without a difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    First no human is objective. Second: Empathy is the capacity to understand or feel what another person is experiencing from within the other person's frame of reference. With the right frame of reference, i can even understand people joining ISIS. It doesent mean i have to agree with it or do it myself. But yes i can understand what is going in their heads even if its wrong.

    I am against prolife argument in the united states. But i can definitively see where its coming from, see how their religion still hold them to that belief for the most part without proper education or in the case of politician, scoring points with this is worth it for reelection when ever they even believe in what they are saying or not. My stance is the stance of my own country on the case of abortion, it is legal and doctors are the final authority on when ever it is no longer safe to practice.
    It is very rare that people will actively hold and entertain views from many different camps, even opposing camps, and even camps they oppose personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

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