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  1. #221
    I prefer things the way that they are now in comparison to how they used to be. I find them much more immersive and entertaining than being forced into a bunch of mindless arbitrary "walk here, buy this, this, this, and that, then slap it on the golden giant axe that you pulled out of a dragon's stomach."

    If I want that level of meta and blow away loads of times that I don't have, I'll play D&D. I play WoW because it has always had the casual approach designed for gamers that have lives outside of the game.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    Wrong again.
    cause you dont bring anything thats TRUE.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Go on trying to insult me lil'snowflake....
    You come across as very childish. If you do in fact have a kid you should talk to someone about your mental state.

  3. #223
    Though we weren't always agreeing on some things, I must say I pretty much agree 100% with you here.

  4. #224
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    I can take them point by point why they removed them.

    -Removal of Hybrid Talents
    it was removed because if you remember, everyone had the exact same talent because they deemed best. There was no fun in that at all rendering all the other talents useless.
    Only in PvE, in PvP there were many viable builds for every class.
    -Removal of Talent Trees
    Current talent trees are simplified and more meaningful.
    I disagree.

    You actually have a choice sometimes to make depending on the boss fight or your enjoyable playstyle.
    and by this you mean "does this fight have AoE? Ok, guess I have to take the AoE talents". That's not "choice".


    -Removal of Gems in every piece of gear and Meta gem
    Gems are now more impactful.
    I don't agree... Each individual gem is more impactful now, but you go more of them back then... The overall impact of gems back then was far more than it is now.

    Back then it was simply a nightmare every time we get an item. you had to gem the gear > enchant it > reforge it.
    If you call that a nightmare I don't know how you get through everyday life.
    -Removal of Glyphs
    Glyphs were the same as talents. People just chose the best for them and left the rest. Where is the fun in that?
    Again, only in PvE, in PvP, there were many more options.

    -Removal of Reforging
    Please no. reforging was the absolute worst idea I have seen in the game.
    The only problem with reforging was hit/expertise, with those gone reforging has no downfalls... It's most definitely better than the Netherlight crucible, which is just reforging with added RNG and tons of extra problems (having to bind the relic to you just to find out if the "reforging" RNGd into something decent)... I would much rather have Reforging than Netherlight.

    What's the point of reforging if you are gonna use an addon that does it automatically for u based on your stat perio?
    the same could be said of gems, and enchanting. Whats the point if you're just going to pick the one that is best based on your stat priority? That argument sounds stupid to even just say aloud.

    You get 2 items the same ilvl, and you pick the one that simcraft tells you is best based on your stat priority, what's the point? follows the same premise, but also sounds stupid.

    What reforging does, and does well, is give you more options in gear, items that would have otherwise been disenchanted on sight can potentially be upgrades.

    More customization is not a bad thing.
    Last edited by Schattenlied; 2017-09-17 at 06:10 PM.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  5. #225
    I'm still baffled that anybody thinks the original talent trees were 'customization' compared to the current system. There is dramatically more build diversity now than there ever was with the original talent trees. The original trees were, effectively, what we get with Artifacts and Relics now.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpunkz View Post

    Anyone else feels sad about the fact that "Customization" is frowned upon by Blizzard?
    Imagination, experimentation and testing are pretty much forbidden and replaced by a standard gameplay everyone must play.

    The excuse of Blizzard is "there is always a cookie cutter build"
    I agree that in PvE-single target damage there is always a "cookie cutter" build of "stand still and do the most DPS"
    But for PvP and World Content...there are always a million different choices you can take to be optimal. (Utility, Survival, Burst, Hybrid etc)
    I call bullcrap on this excuse and i say they removed customization because is just easier to balance the game from day one.
    Honestly though, how often did you change talents for world content? Or Glyphs? Did you EVER reforge for world content? Regem?

    How big would the talent tree be now if they had not pruned it back. Imagine trying to balance that. Go on, imagine it.

    I agree with some of this post but the idea that more than a few people did any of the above for world content is a little far fetched. There is and will always be a top build for single target and multiple target PVE. PVP I can't speak on.
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  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nahela View Post
    I'm still baffled that anybody thinks the original talent trees were 'customization' compared to the current system. There is dramatically more build diversity now than there ever was with the original talent trees. The original trees were, effectively, what we get with Artifacts and Relics now.
    Some people have to dark pink tainted glasses to realise that...not to mention all the useless talents you had to take just to advance to the next talent.

  8. #228
    Deleted
    Yeah, hence why I play less and less. The RPG aspect has been down the toilet for some time now.

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    Some people have to dark pink tainted glasses to realise that...not to mention all the useless talents you had to take just to advance to the next talent.
    You say useless, I say gave a sense of constant progression while leveling... None of the talents were useless, they just gave small increases, which there is nothing wrong with.


    The talent trees we have now do 2 things

    Ask you if the fight has AoE or not, you pick based on that (which we never really did in the old trees, AoE vs ST is not "choice").

    And make you pick between 3 talents you probly would have had all of baseline under the old system.


    And again, in PvP, there was tons of build diversity, far, far more than we see now.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  10. #230
    To be fair, a large part of this is the player bases fault. Every whine thread of how you class isn't on top of the dps meters led to this. We used to have support specs, that did less damage but buffed their raid. People hated that they had to bring certain classes to raids, and that they couldn't all roll brain dead hunters and top charts, so they bitched. Blizz listened.

  11. #231
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amerrol View Post
    To be fair, a large part of this is the player bases fault. Every whine thread of how you class isn't on top of the dps meters led to this. We used to have support specs, that did less damage but buffed their raid. People hated that they had to bring certain classes to raids, and that they couldn't all roll brain dead hunters and top charts, so they bitched. Blizz listened.
    and yet, after all the "listening" blizzard did, they still didn't achieve the goal... Some classes are still borderline useless. And even back in Wrath when the support mechanics were still all there, the hybrids were viable DPS, so none of this was required.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Better title "Wow: The RPG where bitching customizes the game" most things blizzard removed, was because so many people bitched about it. The game is filling up with counter strike people, who just wants to log on and kill stuff, and collect loot without having to think about anything too complicated.
    Counter Strike is one of hardest pvp games and requires a lot of mechanical/mental skill.
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  13. #233
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    Some people have to dark pink tainted glasses to realise that...not to mention all the useless talents you had to take just to advance to the next talent.
    Just leave this thread already. You obvious never experienced older days of WoW and are here just to bait people into flaming.
    You obvious never heard of immersion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?

  14. #234
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    None of the talents were useless
    BS mr. I didnt play vanilla even blizzard acknowledge that they had useless talents....

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nahela View Post
    I'm still baffled that anybody thinks the original talent trees were 'customization' compared to the current system. There is dramatically more build diversity now than there ever was with the original talent trees. The original trees were, effectively, what we get with Artifacts and Relics now.
    Old Talent trees did not create "Hybrid Talent Trees" for everyone. I know. Only some could do creative crazy builds.
    But that doesn't mean that it was a bad system! It just means it could be worked on.

    If you ever played Guild Wars 2 you would understand the pleasure of coming up with crazy new builds. It's a playground for creativity that game.

    Imagine how we would be today if old Talent Trees were developed for 11 years without the restrictions of Cataclysm.
    We would have today amazing diversity.

    What if the reforge system was updated to be able to reforge to "leech" and "movement speed" and any terciary stats?
    We would have something crazy like "Blood Deathknight full Leech".

    What if i wanted to do a roleplay Rogue with stack of "Haste" plus "Slice and Dice" plus "Poison Procs". Creativity.
    Or a Rogue with 50% crit with backstab build

    (sorry for the rogue examples i was a rogue for a long time and i dreamed about this stuff)

  16. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    BS mr. I didnt play vanilla even blizzard acknowledge that they had useless talents....
    I don't care what blizzard considered useless, every talent did something, that makes them not useless.

    I've been playing this game since January 2005, I most certainly did play Vanilla, and I have the legacy achievements from PvP titles to prove it.
    Last edited by Schattenlied; 2017-09-17 at 06:43 PM.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  17. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Just leave this thread already. You obvious never experienced older days of WoW and are here just to bait people into flaming.
    You obvious never heard of immersion.
    Contrary to you I play since 2004 open beta, thank you. Now move on and get a grip on reality.
    And if you claim the old talent trees in vanilla where in any way immersion you should really visit me so I can laugh at you in person

  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpunkz View Post
    But is it "above all else i want game balance"?
    The evidence suggests 'yes' for those that post where Blizzard class designers can see them.

    All of that after 'yes' is the important piece.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    Well WoW did dabble into player housing...
    Please don't say that. World of Warcraft, for all its good points, has never deployed player housing in any way. It's never happened.

    Please don't work under the auspice that it did. Assuming it's garrisons you're talking about, they're not even close to what player housing is supposed to be.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    The evidence suggests 'yes' for those that post where Blizzard class designers can see them.

    All of that after 'yes' is the important piece.
    It's incredibly boring though. It'll end with template characters where everyone plays exactly the same and has the exact same gear like in FFXIV. It's not exactly exciting or fun.

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