WoW: The RPG Without Customization

[Deleted]

We would have today amazing diversity.

No, what we would have would be big mess that would not be controllable or balance-able anymore and you couldnt design any bossfights around it.

We would have something crazy like "Blood Deathknight full Leech".

aka complete useless?

What if i wanted to do a roleplay Rogue with stack of "Haste" plus "Slice and Dice" plus "Poison Procs". Creativity.
Or a Rogue with 50% crit with backstab build

no you dont want creativity but OP.

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Please don't say that. World of Warcraft, for all its good points, has never deployed player housing in any way. It's never happened.
Please don't work under the auspice that it did. Assuming it's garrisons you're talking about, they're not even close to what player housing is supposed to be.

But that is exactly the closest to player housing you will ever get in wow.

[Schattenlied]

not be balance-able

Yeah, because the game is soooo balance right now, right?

Oh wait.

no you dont want creativity but OP.

Neither of those two things were OP when they could be done.

[Deleted]

The evidence suggests 'yes' for those that post where Blizzard class designers can see them.

All of that after 'yes' is the important piece.

In my opinion is a very boring world where we are told exactly how to play with creativity to be strictly forbidden. Is pretty much dictatorship xD
I basically am the same Monk as every single Monk on the planet earth. The exact same.
That really is boring (for me).

Not sure if i am being selfish to cater for my own needs of creativity...but i believe it would be fun for everyone.
Well not "everyone".The clueless gamer would feel lost. The player Blizzard usually caters to.

[Kallisto]

Don't bother making this thread. Most of the users on here are already casualized into wanting a less fun game.
MMORPG's have changed for good due the new playerbase. To those who do not wanna spend hours in dungeons and raids. Those who don't wanna make their own talent choices and to those who don't wanna walk forever to get to something.

It's almost like people have things called Jobs. That take precedence over games but also like playing MMOs. You know who would have thought that. Then again I'm certain people here think only those who have no jobs should be in mmos since they have unlimited time to get shit done.

[breadisfunny]

Customization isn't the only RPG element or even one of the most important ones.

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Um what? If a game has action in it then it isn't an RPG? What exactly is it you think you should do in an RPG? Stare at your pretty character the whole time?

For those of you blatantly lying or trolling I'm going to leave this here for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game

that would mean every single game ever made is a rpg. which is absurd.

[Silver Forte]

Agree completely. I never cared if I wasn't using the best cookie cutter build as long as I was both enjoying myself and not dragging other people down. I wish WoW had more customization and immersion that wasn't tied to something arbitrary that just makes the game harder.

[Echocho]

It's almost like people have things called Jobs. That take precedence over games but also like playing MMOs. You know who would have thought that. Then again I'm certain people here think only those who have no jobs should be in mmos since they have unlimited time to get shit done.

People didn't have jobs 10 years ago?

[Otimus]

and it all happened as a way to make the raider's life easier, because in the end, at the end of the day, through all the fluff and bullshit, that's literally all Blizzard really cares about: Raiders. The people who make up a very tiny percentage of the game.

Never will figure that out. I guess, though, they've never been punished financially for it, (if anything, historically, they've been rewarded for it) save for being backed into a corner and having to make LFR during Cata (Which I consider more of pity content, than anything.)

[Darktbs]

Yeah, because the game is soooo balance right now, right?

Oh wait.

Just because the game isn't balanced right now does it mean we should go back to a system that's even worse?

Balancing a game like Wow isn't easy, blizzard didn't balance it on the first day, not today and probably not in a near future

[MoanaLisa]

It's incredibly boring though. It'll end with template characters where everyone plays exactly the same and has the exact same gear like in FFXIV. It's not exactly exciting or fun.

In my opinion is a very boring world where we are told exactly how to play with creativity to be strictly forbidden. Is pretty much dictatorship xD

I'm not disagreeing. I'm observing what the forum consensus seems to be after reading here and on the o-boards for a number of years. Balance is the be-all and end-all of class design and it's that way because of raiding. I've been complaining about bring-the-player-not-the-class since it became apparent during Cataclysm that the long-term effect on class design was to homogenize classes greatly all in the pursuit of making sure that all classes could raid. They started this in Wrath and baked it into the foundation of all class design in Cataclysm.

This is what it means to be playing in WoW as a non-raider. You are very constricted to what you can do within your class as far as customizing your abilities because many of those abilities are designed with raiding in mind. And for PVP the contradictions in class design for PVE raiding have finally led to templates for PVP.

I think it sucks too. The only positive effect that I can see from the class pruning they did for Legion is that they might, having cleared some deadwood skills away, start adding new skills with a different end point in mind. One that is not primarily centered around raiding. I'm a little skeptical of that but it's possible. There seems to be an awareness at Irvine HQ that raiding, while still a touchstone of the game, may also be a dead end for design if so much of the design meta is framed by something that only 1 in 3 players makes any serious attempt to do.

[Magistrate]

Please read all the way through:

-Removal of Gems in every piece of gear and Meta gem

I strongly agree that there should be more socketing opportunities. I understand wanting to slim down a bit and offer more bang for buck with a single gem, but as it stands they're so rare that they might as well not exist.

-Removal of Talent Trees
-Artifact Weapon (same skills for everyone)

They're literally the same system. You can't complain about removing the first one and then lament the addition of the second one. That's exactly how Talent Trees worked.

-PvP Templates

The overwhelming majority of PvP was reliant on gear. PvP templates solved that. Very few people actually participated in fully geared PvP where gear was irrelevant, and most stopped pushing PvP after they were geared. And people who actually push rating are actual PvP players and want to win by their skill and using their tools to the best of their abilities, not by gear.

-Removal of Reforging

Reforging was the bane of literally everyone. It was a source of endless complaining. You literally didn't play any expansion with it if you're complaining about it being gone now. Get a piece of gear in the middle of a raid? Have to go reforge it, enchant it, gem it, whatever else.

-Removal of Glyphs

Just a clone of the Talent system and completely redundant. Didn't provide actual customization for nearly all specs, as certain talents were just always the best and should have just been baked into existing skills. The cosmetic ones were neat, and those ones stayed.

I don't agree with most of your points, but I think you point out a more general problem. I don't think any of the old systems were successful to actually encourage customization for play style. The talent system as it stands for me as a mage main seems much better than it used to be--I have to switch talents somewhat frequently to optimize for AoE or single target or cleave.

Alternative thought: what if variety in gameplay was just expressed through more spec options? More play styles for your given class. We can already easily switch between them. It would be OK if some of them were a little redundant with existing classes since we can switch between multiple classes when we want to. Idk.

I would also add the the homogenization of professions could be added to your list. I miss fully fleshed out profession trees, with profession specific bonuses to reward your effort.

I agree that most professions are useless right now. I liked the idea of more recipes, and the idea of levels for each of them, but in practice it doesn't seem to have worked. Partly because crafted gear is so hard to obtain at a decent ilevel compared to just running out into Argus to get a 910+. (Also consider that problem in MoP was that crafted gear was too highly valued because of the inverse being true.)

However, passive bonuses for professions are not the solution. We just got out of that mess. It forces you to have to take certain professions for your class, and you can't easily change professions if a different spec needs something else. It was the opposite of customization.

[Schattenlied]

Just because the game isn't balanced right now does it mean we should go back to a system that's even worse?

Balancing a game like Wow isn't easy, blizzard didn't balance it on the first day, not today and probably not in a near future

they will NEVER balance, it, so, since balance will NEVER be achieved, I say give us more customization.

[Eleccybubb]

People didn't have jobs 10 years ago?

Well I would have been 11 back when Vanilla came out.

10 years ago though would have been 14 and was doing part time work to pay for my PS3.

[Adlian]

WoW is no longer RPG, they turned it into an action RPG. I wont be surprised if they replace Diablo with WoW and release a new mmoRPG game.

[Amerrol]

and yet, after all the "listening" blizzard did, they still didn't achieve the goal... Some classes are still borderline useless. And even back in Wrath when the support mechanics were still all there, the hybrids were viable DPS, so none of this was required.

They were viable, but people hated the "hybrid tax." There were unique buffs only certain specs brought, but people hated being forced to play or recruit certain specs. I agree, Blizzard shouldn't have listened, but they did, and a lot of the blame lies with the player base, specifically the casuals.

[Eleccybubb]

Please don't say that. World of Warcraft, for all its good points, has never deployed player housing in any way. It's never happened.

Please don't work under the auspice that it did. Assuming it's garrisons you're talking about, they're not even close to what player housing is supposed to be.

Wrong. There was a small bit of work on it in the Alpha with basic house placement and creation. Nothing huge.



Very very basic. And I mean basic so take it with a grain of salt.

[huth]

They're literally the same system. You can't complain about removing the first one and then lament the addition of the second one. That's exactly how Talent Trees worked.

While i disagree with the OP's complaint, they're quite different, both in workings as well as purpose. Most importantly, Talents were intended as a customisation mechanic(that never quite worked), while Artifacts are primarily an alternate advancement mechanic(i.e. a means to gain power seperate from gear).
So listing them seperately and complaining about both isn't quite as contradictory as you believe.

[Soon-TM]

I find it funny that in Vanilla we had several (well, not that many, actually) RPG elements, which resulted in horribly unbalanced classes, especially in PvP. Twelve years later, we have virtually no RP stuff left, ditto for character customisation, ESPECIALLY in PvP thanks to the templates... Yet PvP remains the same old cluster&@#$ it has always been, the difference being that now it's far less fun. Well, at least you have 3567854368 raid difficulties to choose from if you aren't in the mood for M+

[Deleted]

-Removal of Talent Trees
-Artifact Weapon (same skills for everyone)

They're literally the same system. You can't complain about removing the first one and then lament the addition of the second one. That's exactly how Talent Trees worked.

How is a Talent Tree identical to the current Artifact System? There are no options in Artifacts, you must take all talents. There is literally zero customization in Artifact Weapons.

-PvP Templates

The overwhelming majority of PvP was reliant on gear. PvP templates solved that. Very few people actually participated in fully geared PvP where gear was irrelevant, and most stopped pushing PvP after they were geared. And people who actually push rating are actual PvP players and want to win by their skill and using their tools to the best of their abilities, not by gear.

My main grief with PvP Templates is that...well...this is it...there is no more customization in the PvP world...forever and ever.
You want to play a crazy build? Well, not anymore.
PvP Templates killed criativity in PvP...FOREVER (T_T) *sob*

-Removal of Reforging

Reforging was the bane of literally everyone. It was a source of endless complaining. You literally didn't play any expansion with it if you're complaining about it being gone now. Get a piece of gear in the middle of a raid? Have to go reforge it, enchant it, gem it, whatever else.

Reforging wasn't amazing but like the Glyphs, it had potential to be something greater!
It could be an endless tool for customization in the future with a little more work around it.
Like choosing "leech" or "movement speed" or any terciary stats (that were not possible to reforge at the time).

That's my main problem with the removal of this tools. It's not that they were great...it's that they all had potential to be something greater in the future :S

[huth]

How is a Talent Tree identical to the current Artifact System? There are no options in Artifacts, you must take all talents. There is literally zero customization in Artifact Weapons.

Nor is there meant to be. It's not a customisation system and was never intended as one.


Honestly, none of the systems you named were ever actually used for customisation, not even the ones Blizzard intended for it. They learned that you can't have customisation in things affecting player power years ago. Now it's your turn.