WoW: The RPG Without Customization

[Deleted]

Nor is there meant to be. It's not a customisation system and was never intended as one.

Honestly, none of the systems you named were ever actually used for customisation, not even the ones Blizzard intended for it. They learned that you can't have customisation in things affecting player power years ago. Now it's your turn.

Blizzard thought about it and i even made a thread in the Legion section asking for customization in Artifact Weapons. The game was still miles away.
At one point in time Blizzard said "we are still discussing the possibility of only picking a limited ammount of artifact traits"
I saw that and i thought instantly "customization! oh wait, maybe not! Crap!"

The thread i made in 2015 with the source:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...Disappointment

[Schattenlied]

They were viable, but people hated the "hybrid tax." There were unique buffs only certain specs brought, but people hated being forced to play or recruit certain specs. I agree, Blizzard shouldn't have listened, but they did, and a lot of the blame lies with the player base, specifically the casuals.

There was no hybrid tax in WotLK, it was gone, that was THE expansion where they removed it.

[Byleth]

So you liked having to reroll blacksmithing or jewelcrafting or whichever one gave you the smallest above the others bonus to sate your ocd min/maxing obsession?

I am by no means a min/maxer, however this never bothered me. If I really wanted to reroll professions, which was about once a year, I just accepted that I had to put work into it. It was par for the course.

However, passive bonuses for professions are not the solution. We just got out of that mess. It forces you to have to take certain professions for your class, and you can't easily change professions if a different spec needs something else. It was the opposite of customization.

I agree with your sentiment, I never saw it that way, but I understand that this was a big problem among high end raiders.

Perhaps it's time blizzard turned the profession system on it's head and hit the reset button. I don't have the solution myself, but it could be an interesting thread.

[Laqweeta]

Can't wait to see all of the blizzard white knighters in this thread

[Eleccybubb]

Can't wait to see all of the blizzard white knighters in this thread

Can't wait to see the people calling posters "white knights" because they don't agree with someones critical opinion of a game....

Oh wait.

[Hinastorm]

Only read the first few responses, but its 100% for balance purposes.

If they went the opposite route, more customization and less balance, we'd have the opposite thread here, with just as many responses.

Personally, id rather have a decent chance to doing the same numbers as my raid mates, assuming similar playtimes.

I'll pick balance over customization every time.

[Luxeley]

It's rather ironic and ridiculous that Blizzard grealty implied they could balance the game if they took away a lot of customization. Well. they took away customization and WOW is more imbalanced and boring than it's ever been.

[Clone]

WoW at it's core is a raiding game. If an aspect of the gameplay doesn't contribute to raiding then there is no reason for it to exist. This is just Blizzard being honest with what the game is.

[nyc81991]

I would argue that WoW is not much of an RPG at all anymore.

[KainneAbsolute]

I agreed that it was the illusion of customization but it brought one more option of becoming more powerful

[Hinastorm]

It's rather ironic and ridiculous that Blizzard grealty implied they could balance the game if they took away a lot of customization. Well. they took away customization and WOW is more imbalanced and boring than it's ever been.

I'd have to dig up the posts which I dont feel like doing atm, but there was an indepth post with data showing legion being the most balanced exp, raid wise, thus far.

And to be clear, this is mostly talking about the 99% of players not clearing mythic. I know MMO is basically all 1%'ers, but keep in mind balance for the 99% is more important.

[Aeula]

Alpha WoW apparently had tons of customisation. Every level you gained points you could put into a somewhat basic talent tree and several kinds of weapons/battle specialisations that dictated what abilities you could and couldn't use.

For example you could put 20 points into a 'savage' fighting style and you'd be able to use abilities that required the points in said style.

Vanilla was really dumbed down from what they originally planned for the game.

[Gyrotex]

I agree with the OP.

The excuse of Blizzard is "there is always a cookie cutter build"
I agree that in PvE-single target damage there is always a "cookie cutter" build of "stand still and do the most DPS"....

But this is not even a valid point - just a very sloppy Blizzard crowd-control attitude:

For many of us it's not about cookie cutter builds and top DPS.

I'd be happy with my DPS just remaining within top 10 of the LFR raid, but have FUN ways to execute my rotation and play however I want.

Which is why e.g. Path of Exile as an exaggerated example of a talent tree to build your character with is so appealing - it really gives one the freedom to explore numerous possibilities of being efficient but not like everyone else.

Turning WoW into checkers where everything is the same with slightly different lipstick on top was never appealing to me.

Unfortunately any change in game direction has to come from some strong factor like losing subs and money and brand.

None of this is happening thanks to complacent apologists.

[Echocho]

Well I would have been 11 back when Vanilla came out.

10 years ago though would have been 14 and was doing part time work to pay for my PS3.

Yes but there have been over 100 million other people who played the game, everyone didn't start at age 11.

[Joodoc]

-Removal of Hybrid Talents
-Removal of Talent Trees
-Removal of Gems in every piece of gear and Meta gem
-Removal of Glyphs
-Removal of Reforging
-PvP Templates
-Artifact Weapon (same skills for everyone)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone else feels sad about the fact that "Customization" is frowned upon by Blizzard?
Imagination, experimentation and testing are pretty much forbidden and replaced by a standard gameplay everyone must play.

The excuse of Blizzard is "there is always a cookie cutter build"
I agree that in PvE-single target damage there is always a "cookie cutter" build of "stand still and do the most DPS"
But for PvP and World Content...there are always a million different choices you can take to be optimal. (Utility, Survival, Burst, Hybrid etc)
I call bullcrap on this excuse and i say they removed customization because is just easier to balance the game from day one.

• Was it really necessary to remove all types of customization from the game just because "there is always a cookie cutter build for single target PvE"?
  
• What about coming up with crazy new stuff that, if not optimal, it could be the gameplay you enjoy the most?
  
• Isn't "Customization" essential for a good RPG experience?

Anyway, i know we are way past that point and customization is never coming back strong (Netherlight Crucible, just a little taste) I just wanted to know if anyone else feels as sad as me on this topic.

there are 7 tiers of talents, each with three, and each making a difference on playstyle, some of which are LARGE differences. That's 2187 combinations, per spec, that is still a bunch of options. And be honest, when we had talent trees, there wasn't much difference. Picking a talent that gave 0.5% crit vs. one that gave 0.5% haste really wasn't that interesting, and changed very little.

With the splitting of talents per spec, yes hybrid did go away, however before the split all of the specs were different, but felt pretty similar, most of your spells and abilities were available on all three specs, which meant playing one versus playing another wasn't super different unless you were filling a different role. After they split they, they came up with far more in spec diversity. Each spec plays different. Your talent choices make big impacts on how you play.

As forthe cookie cutter builds in pvp, that was because people were going in and using raid gear in pvp and sometimes wrecking because of it, and PvPers were complaining that made it so they had to PvE to PvP sometimes, and vice versa. This fix more or less covers that. You can PvE, if you wish, but it is never required.

Glyphs are still there, they got reworked, but it's nice. I don't have to pick which minor glyphs i want, any I want, I can apply them now.

Reforging REALLY wasn't choice, it was literally just trying to help people with less optimal gear get better gear, it wasn't a choice. For the msot part, it was reforge everything to Stat A if you can, Else B, else C. Unless s spec had specific caps, then you had to do some optimization, which was pain to figure out if you didn't have calculators, or an extra step that pulled away.

And similar with gems. you occasionally get gems which are an upgrade, but that wasn't a choice, like reforging, it was almost always 1 stat, in every slot. Much like it tends to be now. I will agree, I did like Meta Gems, and that choice is missed.

As for artifacts, at the offset it WAS a choice, people DID get to choose how they would want to go, where to put them in, etc. It just wasn't as punishing, you could skip for now and come grab it later. Just at this point we have gotten all of them, and have recognized the full power of our artifacts. but for most of the expansion that was a BIG aspect of choice in the game.

- - - Updated - - -

It's rather ironic and ridiculous that Blizzard grealty implied they could balance the game if they took away a lot of customization. Well. they took away customization and WOW is more imbalanced and boring than it's ever been.

LOL wut? no, not even close. This expansion has been LOADS better t balancing than any other expansion before it. As pvp and pve are seperated, that removed a HUGE cause of imbalance in the past, as they can tweak each seperately. And while there are specs that outperform other specs, the difference between is really minimal unless you are in the world first race. and the order of specs at 100% perfect performance doesn't match the order at 80% good performance. And each tier it has tended to be a new class or spec that was "on top", if not changing more frequent than that. Skill and gear play a much bigger role in numbers than what spec you play.

[Eleccybubb]

Yes but there have been over 100 million other people who played the game, everyone didn't start at age 11.

Was more a light hearted response

But yeah for sure. I imagine some WoW players came from EQ and FF11 as well.

[Kokolums]

Cookie cutter builds exist because raid encounters are scripted. If raid encounters were random or penalized for cookie cutter behavior, then there wouldnt be cookie cutter builds.

[Darktbs]

I agree with the OP.



But this is not even a valid point - just a very sloppy Blizzard crowd-control attitude:

For many of us it's not about cookie cutter builds and top DPS.

I'd be happy with my DPS just remaining within top 10 of the LFR raid, but have FUN ways to execute my rotation and play however I want.

Which is why e.g. Path of Exile as an exaggerated example of a talent tree to build your character with is so appealing - it really gives one the freedom to explore numerous possibilities of being efficient but not like everyone else.

Turning WoW into checkers where everything is the same with slightly different lipstick on top was never appealing to me.

Unfortunately any change in game direction has to come from some strong factor like losing subs and money and brand.

None of this is happening thanks to complacent apologists.

While i love the Path of Exile's talent tree, i question how much it is a good comparison, don't get me wrong, i would love a talent tree like that for wow, but for example the Witch(i think its called like that, long time since i played) have healing, fire, frost, lightining, necrotic and much more in one single tree while WoW turn each and everyone in a Spec or a class.

I personally agree with other poster that mentioned talents for Fireball(2 lazy to quote),

Where what you choose actually change how you use your spells and how they work and not just, like before where its just a dps increase or like now where you barely feel the difference.

[Deleted]

there are 7 tiers of talents, each with three, and each making a difference on playstyle, some of which are LARGE differences. That's 2187 combinations, per spec, that is still a bunch of options.

If the recent Talents have 2187 possible combinations...Wrath of the Lich King Talent Trees had what? Millions? Billions of possible combinations?

Glyphs are still there, they got reworked, but it's nice. I don't have to pick which minor glyphs i want, any I want, I can apply them now.

Reforging REALLY wasn't choice, it was literally just trying to help people with less optimal gear get better gear, it wasn't a choice. For the msot part, it was reforge everything to Stat A if you can, Else B, else C. Unless s spec had specific caps, then you had to do some optimization, which was pain to figure out if you didn't have calculators, or an extra step that pulled away.

And similar with gems. you occasionally get gems which are an upgrade, but that wasn't a choice, like reforging, it was almost always 1 stat, in every slot. Much like it tends to be now. I will agree, I did like Meta Gems, and that choice is missed.

The features i mentioned in the first post that were removed were absolutely not perfect for customization. I know that.
But the simple fact that they existed (instead of not existing at all) gave immense potential for customization in future expansions.
Like gems could have special bonuses if you used several of the same color
Reforging to tertiary stats could open up a lot of fun possible builds
Glyphs had A LOT of potential even though they were not well implemented and there were some obvious choices

Idk, i would prefer to still have them in the game because at least there was the potential to further develop them in future expansions...instead now they are deleted from the game and we will never see them back RIP Customization

LOL wut? no, not even close. This expansion has been LOADS better t balancing than any other expansion before it.

On that we would have to agree.
LoL if Blizzard couldn't balance Legion properly imagine how it would be with hybrid talent trees still in the game.
They pretty much dictate how we must play today. This is the easiest expansion to balance of all time :S

[Ahlae]

We're not only left with just cosmetic customization but one of the worst in the RPG industry. You cannot customize your character very much or even your gear as much as you can in many various other games as far as dye goes and what not.

Now certain class specs can only do x, when the rogue class entirety had it before.. But now it's 'that' specs rogue thing only.. It's absolutely absurd to play a rogue without all of these abilities baseline, not having poison in 2/3 specs? Come on.