EU Tries to fine Poland $75 Mil. Poland sends Germany $1Trillion bill for WWII

[Wikiy]

You only have a moral obligation to your own people, not outsiders.

I don't know if you're a Korean or just a fan of them, but we here in the West actually have a bit of a different worldview. You know, "we're all in this together," "treat others the way you'd want to be treated," "try to minimize the amount of suffering overall," etc. Especially Europeans don't adhere to what you're saying about only having moral obligations towards their own people. And that's no surprise, since the definition of what "your own people" actually is, is a bit fuzzy. This is both due to political reasons (the EU) as well as cultural reasons (the internet bringing people closer).

[Pannonian]

It's not anarchist to say that international law is bullshit due to lack of enforceability.

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You only have a moral obligation to your own people, not outsiders.

This is a regulation inside EU, and it is enforced. Thats why they have to pay a fine.

[Freighter]

That worked wonders when we said no to Eastern European migrants..

So you're just gonna throw your hands up in the air and say fine if someone doesn't go home when told they can't stay instead of employing measures to make them? Why don't your countries just abolish your policies on immigration then? How can you rule a country if you're a defeatist who refuses to enforce border controls? No borders, no legitimacy of the government.

[Freighter]

Because we have values.

You have values. Yeah, okay. You seem to hold values that are detrimental to your own nations and serves to diminish the legitimacy of the government if you're not going to enforce border controls. Just because people are coming doesn't mean you have to take them.

How do you want to make people?

Deport them if they make it inside the borders, deny them entry.

[Jinpachi]

Stupid German bashing strikes again - reported for making up a false headline.

Germany is not fining anyone the EU is.

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If you are an American I think this is funny.

Nobody cares what you think

[Dreknar20]

whole international law would be void.

international law is some stupid shit that never works anyhow

[TickTickTick]

Why dont we send millions of immigrants to America? Just because they are not in EU? But the immigrants are people in need, surely America is such a cool dude that they should help those in need right? Why dont we send them millions and then let them talk?

To people saying we are taking more money from EU than provide - too fucking bad our country has been destroyed during WWII cause most of europe didnt give a shit about germany and russia gangbanging us. Then letting russia slow down the repair process. Maybe before you start comparing the money each country has, first compare their history and see what countries were split between multiple invaders and what werent.

An overwhelming majority in our country is against immigrants. We do not want terrorist attacks and other stupid shit you 'civilised europe' have on daily basis. we didnt recover just almost 30 years ago only to have our country be degraded again. We arent rich, many people live by the minimal wage and trust me, there will be fire if the immigrants come here and get paid only cause they are immigrants. You can talk all you want about that the attacks are not the fault of immigrants but SURPRISE: you invite immigrants and have terrorist attacks (by whoever), we dont and our country is one of the most peaceful in europe when it comes to that (i cant recall any terrorist attack tbh).

Fuck EU btw. Instead of being an instrument of making europe prosper, they are using the power to basically make a country out of continent. Want to help 'poor' immigrants? Take them if you can afford it. But dont force it on others. AND BTW while joining EU there were no talks about future potential taking of immigrans. So gtfo with your 'you signed up for this' bullcrap.

[Pannonian]

Why dont we send millions of immigrants to America? Just because they are not in EU? But the immigrants are people in need, surely America is such a cool dude that they should help those in need right? Why dont we send them millions and then let them talk?

To people saying we are taking more money from EU than provide - too fucking bad our country has been destroyed during WWII cause most of europe didnt give a shit about germany and russia gangbanging us. Then letting russia slow down the repair process. Maybe before you start comparing the money each country has, first compare their history and see what countries were split between multiple invaders and what werent.

An overwhelming majority in our country is against immigrants. We do not want terrorist attacks and other stupid shit you 'civilised europe' have on daily basis. we didnt recover just almost 30 years ago only to have our country be degraded again. We arent rich, many people live by the minimal wage and trust me, there will be fire if the immigrants come here and get paid only cause they are immigrants. You can talk all you want about that the attacks are not the fault of immigrants but SURPRISE: you invite immigrants and have terrorist attacks (by whoever), we dont and our country is one of the most peaceful in europe when it comes to that (i cant recall any terrorist attack tbh).

Fuck EU btw. Instead of being an instrument of making europe prosper, they are using the power to basically make a country out of continent. Want to help 'poor' immigrants? Take them if you can afford it. But dont force it on others. AND BTW while joining EU there were no talks about future potential taking of immigrans. So gtfo with your 'you signed up for this' bullcrap.

Sorry for the sentiment, but we are not talking about EU negotiations, but a specific refugee relocation treaty which the polish government signed 2 years ago. So yeah, you signed up to taking refugees.

[Slant]

You cant just cancel a treaty one-sided. If you think that should be possible the whole international law would be void.

Actually, yes you can cancel a treaty one-sided. That's how you cancel stuff all the time.

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International law is already void and has no legitimacy due to its inability to be enforced.

Not if everyone agrees to doing it anyway. Is there a world police to enforce it? No. Do countries still care about their credibility? Yes, they do. And that's why they keep these treaties.

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I don't know if you're a Korean or just a fan of them, but we here in the West actually have a bit of a different worldview. You know, "we're all in this together," "treat others the way you'd want to be treated," "try to minimize the amount of suffering overall," etc. Especially Europeans don't adhere to what you're saying about only having moral obligations towards their own people. And that's no surprise, since the definition of what "your own people" actually is, is a bit fuzzy. This is both due to political reasons (the EU) as well as cultural reasons (the internet bringing people closer).

Let's not forget the big elephant in the room: The last time one of us only followed "moral obligations to their own people", it kinda wrecked the entire continent. I'd like to believe we've learned from that, hence the reluctance to be selfish bastards that like to watch people suffer outside their borders.

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So you're just gonna throw your hands up in the air and say fine if someone doesn't go home when told they can't stay instead of employing measures to make them? Why don't your countries just abolish your policies on immigration then? How can you rule a country if you're a defeatist who refuses to enforce border controls? No borders, no legitimacy of the government.

Out there in the real world, when you send them home - which you pay for, by the way - they're back the next day and you can start "sending them home" again next morning. Your strategy? Doesn't actually work unless you literally shoot people that cross the borders illegally or wash up on your shores.

I've had this conversation before, let's see if you actually stick to your gun...do you think it's okay to shoot people by the hundreds at the borders? Do you think that every border in the world looks like the one between SK and NK?

Here's a border in the real world:

[Pannonian]

Actually, yes you can cancel a treaty one-sided. That's how you cancel stuff all the time.

True, but if i cancel a contract there might be some repercussions. Like in this case, a fine. Like it is with nearly every contract in business.

Maybe except for treaties with the vatican, they cannot be cancelled.

[Slant]

True, but if i cancel a contract there might be some repercussions. Like in this case, a fine. Like it is with nearly every contract in business.

Maybe except for treaties with the vatican, they cannot be cancelled.

Yeah, they can. Half of Germany did it. And it took them only 30 years and a lot of destroyed city walls to finalize it! Martin Luther ftw! Freedom!

Edit: Alternatively you can mumble some things about needing chicken blood, some beeswax candles, a lot of chalk, a really sharp kitchen knife and a newborn baby... they'll excommunicate you in no time, and it's almost as good as cancelling!

Your reputation may suffer a bit, though, but it's certainly shorter than the other way...

[Mehrunes]

In the end Poland will bend over and take whatever we're giving to them and they will thank us for it.

Want to know why?
Because Poland cannot support itself.
Because despite all the yelling, kicking and screaming they live on Western welfare.
They cannot protect their borders, they cannot pay their own people and they cannot support their own country.
Without charity from the West they would become Russia's little bitch within 5 years, that is how hard they would crash.

Yeah, because Eastern Europe just didn't function before joining EU. Also, just lol at talk of inability to support one's borders without help from other countries coming from Netherlands out of all places. There are only a few countries in Europe from which that argument would be even more laughable, so congrats I guess.

And congrats on your utterly idiotic comprehension (or lack of thereof) of EU funds too. First of all, as you yourself managed to grasp two posts later, it's only a few percent of Poland's budget. Not exactly welfare. It's also not charity, it's investment by western countries. And as @Wikiy said, you don't even understand how and what for those funds are spent.

Get lost with your nation bashing and xenophobic horseshit.

And I am personally done with this bullshit.

Then why are you so keen on spreading even more?

"15 million"
Meanwhile in the real world: "Poland is due to receive 86 billion euros ($96.53 billion) in the 2014-20 budgetary period."

Your own source talks about 82 billions.

Oh yes, because the Western part of Europe wasn't much richer then the Eastern part before the Marshall aid. /s

Except @Wikiy's point was that they wouldn't be as rich as they are, lowering the gap as it is now significantly. Alas, deliberate obtuseness is fun. And yay, western Europe was richer before the war than a country that regained independence only 20 years prior to it and had to rebuild itself from being one of the main battlefields of WWI and over 100 years of annexation by three different countries.

You know what I find arrogant?
People that deny the facts.
People who can look at that graph and still tell me that West and East are completely equal.
That East can do fine on its own.

If you live on someone elses money you can at least be thankful for it! And not attack and insult him at every possible moment.

Yeah, few % more money in the budget makes all the difference in the world and totally means Poland is living on western Europe's money.

So you have excuses to explain why the West was richer before and after WW2.
But what does any of this matter? In the end the facts are still the same: The West is many times richer than the East.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...PP)_per_capita uh huh.

Poland's GDP was 470 billion in 2016.
So it's more like 3.2% which is basically their entire growth.
And this has been going on for decades.

First of all, Poland hasn't even been in EU for decades. Secondly, good job operating on a value of what Poland gets out of EU (that is higher than what your source said) without subtracting what it pays. Look at all your high ground to chastise people who deny facts

This is the arrogance I am talking about!
You cannot, at the same time, beg for money and claim you don't need it.
Without this help they would still be like Moldavia or Belarus.

1. EU budget is not something that can be constructed via begging. 2. Poland was never like Moldova or Belarus. 3. As already mentioned in #2, it's Moldova.

Then send the money back.
I can live without my third TV or second car.
Can you live without a home?

Just gonna do some more quotes of your shitposts to showcase what trainwrecks they are:

This is the arrogance I am talking about!

You know what I find arrogant?
People that deny the facts.

Meanwhile in the real world

Eastern Europe has higher rates of home ownership. And not only are they not a result of accession into EU, they've dropped since then. And you still have fuck all of a clue about how EU funds work or what they pay for.

[Ettan]

National sovereignty does not mean that a country's word on a deal is worthless.
A necessary part of "sovereignty" is the ability to make deals with foreign nations, breaking their word damages that ability and thus effectively detracts from their sovereignty.
A nation that cannot seem to keep its word is less sovereign than one that keeps to what it promised.

No.

National sovereignty = Is a nations ability to govern itself. In essence self determination.
With its people determining the fate of the nation and making its own rules for itself.
Meaning laws, regulations, everything.

Making deals with other nations/ ngo's or being a part of supra-national groups like the EU does not benefit your nations sovereignty in any way imaginable.
It is loss of self governance by default.
Think off it as non hostile occupation, or conquest through peace.
There is a scale/ degrees of this obviously, its not black and white.
If you nation adopts/accept regulations and laws from outside forces does not mean that the nation is completly devoid of sovereignty.
But I think you will find that being a Eu member state or eec partner is not very far off occupation.

[Mehrunes]

Not the big homes you have now.
For the last few decades Poland has knew nothing but economic growth.
And sorry, that's not thanks to themselves. That is thanks to the entire EU giving it to them.

Poland still is not a decades-old member of EU. And somehow it knew nothing but economic growth for more than a decade before joining. A miracle. And do give a source for significant home sizes differences in Poland after 2004

I don't even ask for a thank you.
All I ask is that these Polish people stop being so damn aggressive and resentful towards us.

Be the change you want in the world then and drop your aggressive, resentful, Trump-level ignorant, misinformed, arrogant and xenophobic nation bashing fueled by some kind of unchecked narcissistic megalomania on behalf of half a continent to which, in the real world, you as a single individual contributed next to nothing.

[Dreknar20]

But I think you will find that being a Eu member state or eec partner is not very far off occupation.

spheres of influence.

Essentially what the EU seems like.

But given its history, figure Poland still prefers being dominated by Westerns than traditional Ruskies enemies

[Mehrunes]

What "bad" names?

It's a fact that these countries are quite poor compared to the West.
And it's a fact that their only progress comes from Western charity.

So you cannot tell the difference between "fact" and "something I pulled out from my prejudiced ass"? Well, given your earlier shitposts, not particularly surprising.

[Manabomb]

good for them. one of the few countries left that respect people who died and bled to make it what it is now. those who died for their countries would turn in their graves if they saw what happened to it now.

immigrants are parasites that destroy everything they come in contact with. just take a look at greece, sweden and france. germany is on the same path and any other nation that lets them in. only idiot would approve of it

Immigrants built the world you live in. Your blatant xenophobia is what is destructive.

[tankbug]

Poland has accepted over 2 milion Ukranian refugees (note refugees, not fortune seekers) since the krimea conflict begun.
Germany does not even have a thousand of them.

With that in mind, this strikes me as extremly petty of the Eu. They want to punish Poland for not accepting illegitimate refugees.
I find it rather amusing as this clearly demonstrates that even the bureaucrats of the Eu looks upon these "refugees" as the burden they are.

1. Poland is a neighbouring country of Ukraine
2. They are fleeing an actual war = Legitimate refugees.

3. Ukrainian refugees have a familiar language, culture and the right skin color.

[Dreknar20]

Immigrants built the world you live in.

immigrants are hardly in the same vein as refugees.

Refugees are the scraps at the bottom of the barrel. Essentially a buncha poor worthless husks.
So unless your country has a severe manpower problem, they are a drain rather than a gain.

[Ettan]

3. Ukrainian refugees have a familiar language, culture and the right skin color.

True 10 char