Does anyone else dislike ToS?

[satimy]

I do not raid mythic anymore, however outside of KJ I can't say I like any fight in ToS. If we're comparing it to middle raids that would BRF, ToT, Firelands and Ulduar and I think it falls way short of those.

[Wvvtayy]

Firelands? ToS isn't great but anything is better than fucking dogshit Firelands was.

[Rafoel]

Wtf bro. Firelands were one of the worst raids ever created. It actually made me quit and no return until DS.

[Daevied]

Wtf bro. Firelands were one of the worst raids ever created. It actually made me quit and no return until DS.

DS? are you serious?, thats pure garbage. I wouldnt have come back till legion if i were you

[Deleted]

I don't think its a bad raid, but the general standard of raids over the last few years has been very high and I think it falls a bit flat by comparison. Especially considering its got one of the games most iconic villains the end boss.

[Cracked]

DS? are you serious?, thats pure garbage. I wouldnt have come back till legion if i were you

Dunno if sarcastic, but it was the same for me. Firelands was consumed so fast that I quit until DS, when I resubbed only to find DS just as shit and unsub again until MoP.

[killwithpwr]

Lol. He's not comparing the quality for ToS against Firelands as a raid...
He's comparing a mid tier raid to the last ones we had which are BrF, ToT, Firelands and Ulduar...
It can go on to BT and AQ... But Vanilla and TBC had more variaty in mid tier raids than the following expacs.

So, yes... I agree ToS is a boring raid.
Only raid i enjoyed so far was NH.
I am really looking forward to Antorus, hoping they wont fuck it up.

[Softbottom]

Tos is very mediocre.

[satimy]

I think firelands and Ds were way better than ToS. I've raised since wrath in almost every tier and ToS is probably one of the worst raids I have run. Perhaps I'm just spoiled with how great the raids the past 2 expansions were

[Karon]

ToS has a fucked up layout but other than the desolate host I like the bosses.

[sdracklryeg]

I don't know what it is about ToS but I actually like it

The bosses overall are pretty ordinary and the Mythic difficulty tuning was absolutely fucked

But I've run ToS dozens of times on heroic and I'm not sick of it, whereas I got pretty bored of Nighthold even though objectively I think I'd say Nighthold was a better raid.

It's one of the most aesthetically varied raids which I really appreciate.

[Radaney]

ToS is a complete snoozefest. Boring ass fights, KJ is a disgrace of a last boss as well having an invulnerability phase where you do absolutely fucking nothing. Who even thought of that shit. The only part of that fight that is worth being called a fight is in Phase 2 where 3 of the abilities line-up for 10 seconds of the fight, the rest is a complete fucking dribblefest. Even Mythic looks like a complete fucking dribble-fest as well.

The only boss that felt generally intense was Mistress. Every other fight is 'hopefully greg hasn't fallen asleep and smashed his face on his keyboard in these boring ass fights so he doesn't miss the boring shit soak mechanic that one shots the raid."

Nighthold was much better. Spellblade, Ticho, Botanist and even Trilliax had a lot more going for them. A lot more general encounter intensity, all the ToS fights are fall asleep for 5 mins with no damage going out, do something for 5 seconds which hopefully doesn't 1 shot the raid, repeat. It's like doing Star Augur M with 7 different boss and ability skins.

[Marrilaife]

Someone in my guild asked once "why didn't they put teleporters around TOS" and to be honest, I have no good answer to this. Why are you supposed to suicide after Host to get to Maiden in an efficient manner? Why if you use the shortcut and kill Maiden first then go kill the other bosses, if you wipe, you have to corpse run from Avatar lift? Why are there WQ minibosses in some obscure chambers no one really knows where they are so no group does them in the end? The whole place gives me the vibes of an egyptian pyramid, claustrophobic maze of corridors, I guess it has a point pyramid was a tomb after all but I'm not really a fan of horror games, I wish the navigation around the place was much better.

[Yunaqt]

It's all personal opinion, some people dislike Firelands [as seen above] however Firelands is one of the raids I've enjoyed the most in my time playing this game, I wouldn't say it was consumed that quickly for anyone raiding heroic Rag was a 500+ pull boss, and an immensely satisfying kill.
Your experiences and who/where you're playing play a large factor in enjoyment as well, Highmaul for example was not a well received tier however I loved it due to it was my first 'Hardcore' tier and picked up the world second M Brackenspore kill, so my fondness of those experiences add to my enjoyment of the tier even if the bosses may have been lackluster in comparison to another tiers.

ToS I don't overly care for too much but most of that comes down to the fact i'm in my third guild this tier due to guilds dying for whatever reason so I'm just over it due to having to regress and reprog bosses.

[Malico]

Wtf bro. Firelands were one of the worst raids ever created. It actually made me quit and no return until DS.

haha DS? You must be serious casual!

[Jester Joe]

Dunno if sarcastic, but it was the same for me. Firelands was consumed so fast that I quit until DS, when I resubbed only to find DS just as shit and unsub again until MoP.

Firelands might have been consumed quickly, but it still had interesting mechanics overall (Turning Baleroc, trapping Shannox's dogs in the traps, splitting the raid to hop up and deal with Beth'talic, Alysrazor's entire fight).

I don't think I can say the same about ToS, aside from maybe Maiden and KJ.

[mrgreenthump]

I do dislike the mechanics quite a bit.. Though mostly because every fight seems to have some sort of soak mechanic. Not only that, but tuning has been quite the disaster, before Avatar, there was no real dps checks at all. Rather mostly one mistake = wipe mechanics. Avatar weren't at all better though in that regard, but at least before crusible/latest nerfs it got, it needed you to do rather well in the dps department.

Having missed the horribly tuned Mythic KJ though, going there later, I was actually enjoying that fight quite a bit, though it might be, because I'm a Mage, so most of the movement mechanics there are pretty easy for me.

Overall though, it's not worst "mid-tier" raid, remember TotGC still existed. But I'm sure glad that we get something new soon.

[bmjclark]

I hated firelands tbh, but other than that i generally agree with you. ToS kind of sucks.

[Deleted]

Firelands for real? That was literally ToS in worse. 5 w/e bosses, 1 good medium boss (baloroc/mistress) and then 1 guild destroyer (world 30-200 guilds easily had the combined wipe count of avatar+kj on ragnaros).

Nostalgia is fun.


What you should look at is T11, lots of hard bosses (nefarian, chogall, sinestra, ascendant council, alakir) that each took like 2 progress ids (where you see your progress and continue further into the fight consistently every raid night).

The time for bosses that take a whole month+ for lots of guilds is over - no one wants this. If they want to design these as a challenge for daytime guilds - go ahead but nerf them quick and severe enough so that by the time more casual guilds get to them, they aren't guild destroyers anymore.

[Micronetic]

I dislike every raid which came WITH and AFTER Hellfire Citadell, they feel so sterile for me and I personally think they don't have the personality raids once had, they feel all the same.