What happened to big, immersive quest hub cities? Nowadays all we get is 2 tents

[huth]

Why is empty space a bad thing? Why does everything need to be condensed and claustrophobic? Especially in terms of mob density lately.

Because it takes time and resources to create for something that isn't actually used.

[Constraint]

You do know that currently on Argus, it's a very hostile environment, and setting up a larger camp, let alone anything with solid walls, is next to impossible?

Either way, previously there's the hub in Suramar, Thunder Totem, Val'sharah... The Class Halls...

The hub in Suramar, the cave? Ok.. Thunder Totem, agreed. Val'sharah..?? There are a few Nelf buildings and in another location, a temple that is not really related to anything in the entire zone. The class halls are irrelevant to the discussion, for fairly obvious reasons.

I do miss big quest hubs, but to be completely honest, I more miss the old style of questing than I do the hubs.

I miss going around, grabbing whatever quests are available, and doing them in whatever order I feel like, or whatever part of the map I feel like going to. Not just.. You will do the story EXACTLY in the order we say! You will go to point A, then point B, then return to point A, hand in your 2 quests, go to point C, return to point A, hand in your next 2 quests, etc etc etc. It's so fucking boring to me.

[BoomX2]

i gotta agree with the OP. and i dont think he exaggirating

[InfiniteCharger]

Lore wise and story wise there aren't going to be many standing friendly cities for you to make into quest hubs in a future expansion unless they go with Kul Tiras. Azeroth has been at war with varied forces since the RTS with many kindoms and civilizations being destroyed during that time and after. So there isn't much left on Azeroth to make into a new quest hub. And with the Legion invasion being an all out defense against total destruction, there shouldn't be some gleaming new city to call home anyway.

Most expansions have been in places outside the core continents of vanilla. That said, many of the previous expansions did have very immersive main cities to quest in. TBC had Shattrath. Wrath had Dalaran. Cataclysm didn't have much. MOP had Vale of Eternal Blossoms with faction hubs. WOD well... not much. So yes there have been some memorable main city hubs in the past, at least equal to Stormwind and Orgrimmar of vanilla. Unfortunately in terms of the overall timeline and continuity, only Dalaran sticks around as a persistent city in the current lore of the game. Places like Vale of Eternal Blossoms are still there but who goes there? And all the various forms of Draenor are off world and in alternate dimensions.

[Flurryfang]

You're fucking high if you think that all of those shithole combined could equal Suramar by itself, not to mention Vengeance point and the Vindacaar. Try again

But Suramar is not really a quest hub, it is a big question area. There are few safe areas in the city and even fewer places where there are acutally groups of friendly NPCs. The Vindicar is also quite small, since there is actually quite little room to move in

I really get what OP is getting at. It is quite a long time ago since we have had a big place, where allies meet and faction colours are flown. Even in Stormheim, where the faction war is real, there is not a place where you really feel like you are in a horde/alliance fortress of defense. All we are seeing nowadays is outposts and forward positions, not a real command center where somebody actually live and does patrols around.

[Halyon]

The hub in Suramar, the cave? Ok.. Thunder Totem, agreed. Val'sharah..?? There are a few Nelf buildings and in another location, a temple that is not really related to anything in the entire zone. The class halls are irrelevant to the discussion, for fairly obvious reasons.

I do miss big quest hubs, but to be completely honest, I more miss the old style of questing than I do the hubs.

I miss going around, grabbing whatever quests are available, and doing them in whatever order I feel like, or whatever part of the map I feel like going to. Not just.. You will do the story EXACTLY in the order we say! You will go to point A, then point B, then return to point A, hand in your 2 quests, go to point C, return to point A, hand in your next 2 quests, etc etc etc. It's so fucking boring to me.

That's fair enough. I'm fine with the current style of questing.

[Deleted]

People really need to learn how to quote without including the screenshots...

[Lahis]

Yeah...IIRC they were the only cities with an AH at the start? And then habit takes over. I don't find Ironforge or Thunder Bluff inconvenient, but after a time getting more used to Orgrimmar and Stormwind during Classic, those just stuck

Original Alliance bank and AH was in Ironforge. Horde had them in Orgrimmar.

Later the facilities were added into all cities, making them more or less equal untill Cataclysm which focused everything in SW and Org.

[Lord Pebbleton]

What's the point in having a sprawling base when most of the buildings contain jack squat?

It creates immersion, which is fundamental for this kind of game. Most "cities" in the game are barely a single house, and most towns are tents. Goldshire is still called a town while it's jut an inn, a blacksmith and a forge. Does this give you a sense of a world that's alive? To me, it detracts from the experience.
One of the main arguments against Legion some months ago was that the Broken Isles feel to clumped. This is because there's no "useless" space in them, something to remind us that yes, we're the heroes, but life goes on around us even if we are not needed right at that moment.
I can't think of other MMOs but the Witcher 3 came to my mind. How barren would be Novigrad be if it was just the houses you need to enter for quests? You'd have a portion of Stormwind instead of a sprawling city full of life.

[Deleted]

Thrallmar and Honor Hold are "big, immersive quest hub cities"? Okay. I'll stick with Suramar, thanks

how is suramar a hub city?

[huth]

But Suramar is not really a quest hub, it is a big question area. There are few safe areas in the city and even fewer places where there are acutally groups of friendly NPCs. The Vindicar is also quite small, since there is actually quite little room to move in

We've got hubs in Legion ranging from a guy standing outside to a city the size of a race capital. Which, if any of you actually bothered to look around, isn't any different from what we've had before. Even in BC or WotLK there were maybe a handful of the big ones and a lot of the 2 tent things.

[Teri]

Broken Isles and Argus don't really have massive faction presence, compared to the towns in old world/tbc and wotlk.

We do have some hubs but usually not for longer then like 6 quest at a time, and many quest givers/returners move with us instead.

There are still some hubs for like neutral factions and forsaken and such but really most of the questing are small towns with quests in-between on the move.

Also world quests remove a lot of the "pick up and return" mechanics.

Shal'aran in Suramar is different however, it's a place where many questlines eventually start and end leading to it's development, with a few side-hubs in the camps to the west/east and moonguard stronghold.

Hubs still exist, they just aren't 10+ quest at a time anymore...

[Planetdune]

Suramar is the only immersive city WoW has ever had. It's like the first city with actual houses people live in WoW has had.

It is still WAY to small but yeah a real city would be bigger than the the current Azeroth planet in its entirety.. with ease... at least the physical representation in game, not the lore version. My biggest complaint with Suramar is that the story feels unfinished... not that it lacked quests in the area. Just that as always, your actions ultimately don't change a lot.

[Flurryfang]

We've got hubs in Legion ranging from a guy standing outside to a city the size of a race capital. Which, if any of you actually bothered to look around, isn't any different from what we've had before. Even in BC or WotLK there were maybe a handful of the big ones and a lot of the 2 tent things.

The biggest place on the Broken isle, which can be seen as a quest hub, is Thunder Totem and i agre, that it is quite massive, but it is not really that impressive, when you see, that the only areas used are the top floor and a small area at the bottom floor. It is still big, but not enough to set any record.

The thing is that we are actually bothering to look around and what we see is something lacking. Maybe it is something to do with the lack of the clear faction colours or new buildings made like in Wrath, but the quest hubs in Legion just feels a big underwhelming.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

It is still WAY to small but yeah a real city would be bigger than the the current Azeroth planet in its entirety.. with ease... at least the physical representation in game, not the lore version. My biggest complaint with Suramar is that the story feels unfinished... not that it lacked quests in the area. Just that as always, your actions ultimately don't change a lot.

Eh? We made the Arcan'dor to cure mana addiction and defeated Elisande and her forces who were oppressing everyone? How much more closure do you want? Those were the two major conflicts in Suramar and both have been dealt with.

[Flurryfang]

Eh? We made the Arcan'dor to cure mana addiction and defeated Elisande and her forces who were oppressing everyone? How much more closure do you want? Those were the two major conflicts in Suramar and both have been dealt with.

Yet we did not really get a preview of what will happend to the city now that the Broken Isles have returned to the global world. Will the Nightborne choose side, will they follow their elven kind out into the world and what will happend to the rest of the city, who appreantly accepted and enjoyed the demonic influence?

There is still some story there

[Planetdune]

Eh? We made the Arcan'dor to cure mana addiction and defeated Elisande and her forces who were oppressing everyone? How much more closure do you want? Those were the two major conflicts in Suramar and both have been dealt with.

The problem is that nothing much changes in the world around us. Lore wise we do this and that but the city looks the same as it did before we did all that.

[satimy]

If you are very honest, all these hubs suck big time compared to Suramar.

There were a vew cities like Theramore that stood out, but that's about it.

Suramar was not a good questline

[Pony Soldier]

I think the point is going way over some people's head here. Unless I'm misunderstanding too what I think the OP means by quest hub is the place where you pick up your quest. Where you talk to the NPC, he/she gives you the quest and off you go. What OP is getting to is the fact that nowadays instead of having a base or small village to talk to quest NPCs all we get is a little camp that we find along the road.

I agree that this is lame. I miss when it felt like you had to go back to the area's main base to report to an officer or general or help some villagers. Now you just run into a camper on the road who's just like "hey, yeah, go do this thing for me".

[Lahis]

I think the point is going way over some people's head here. Unless I'm misunderstanding too what I think the OP means by quest hub is the place where you pick up your quest. Where you talk to the NPC, he/she gives you the quest and off you go. What OP is getting to is the fact that nowadays instead of having a base or small village to talk to quest NPCs all we get is a little camp that we find along the road.

I agree that this is lame. I miss when it felt like you had to go back to the area's main base to report to an officer or general or help some villagers. Now you just run into a camper on the road who's just like " hey ,yeah, go do this thing for me".

Big forts are great when they make sense. However, such hubs wouldn't have made sense in several past expansions.

In Pandaria we were the spearhead of Horde/Alliance presence in the continent. That's why the first major Horde/Alliance hub comes only after us in 5.1 after we have first scouted the area.

During levelling and 5.0 endgame we did visit hubs built by the locals though.

Same thing with Draenor. It's literally another world with no HorDE/Alliance presence. We go there to build our hubs and we do utilize native hubs built by the Draenei or Orcs that defied the Iron Horde.

Broken Isles has had insignificant importance for Alliance and Horde before Legion. That's why there are no Alliance and Horde hubs. Some factions, like the druids and Gilnean immigrants in Val'sharah and tribes of Highmountain have their hubs which we visit. Biggest Vrykul settlements in Stormheim are under Skovald's rule, so those are enemy camps. Azshuna is in ruins, the only living beings who have made it their home for a millennia are the Blue Dragons, and despite their intelligent they don't build houses when they spend most of their time in Dragon forms.