Only 60 guilds have cleared Mythic Tomb

[Millyraynge]

I am currently playing in a guild recently killed mythic mistress after nearly a month of practcie. I wouldn't call this kind of group/guild a mythic raid guild. The skill niveau of some of my mates is so low that it hurts very hard sometimes. It is a L2P issue.

[KaPe]

People claiming the nerfs made TOS barely harder than hc are tremendously exaggerating, it still requires progression time and learning curve, I've had more wipes on mythic Avatar than on mythic Gul'dan, and the biggest reason for it I would attribute to the fact such a big portion of raid is assigned to various soaks if 1 of these dies or fuckups in any other way, there's nearly never a suitable backup on the fly. Removing 1 puddle in p1 was a step in a good direction.

It's the same shit as always. There are some people who genuinely progressed through bosses pre-nerf and thus feel it's much easier for them now. Most of them don't care, since they already got their kill and it merely makes the farming easier - or in case of KJ, less frustrating.

And then there's the usual "you all suck and should never raid anything above heroic" masters of raiding, who spent all their time complaining about every single nerf, no matter how needed it was. They live through top guilds, would love for bosses to be unkillable for months, don't give a shit about anyone and probably didn't even see the instance themselves. Their wet dream is having the number of kills on final boss being in double digits by the time Cutting Edge gets removed.

Not very familiar with mythic raiding I see. Or the fact that we raid 8 hrs/week. Or that nothing I said is changed by my guild's progression. Overall, pretty wide failure at reading comprehension I guess.

You wiped more than a week on one of the most challenging bosses in the game. Clearly this makes your opinion is irrelevant, even though this makes you 1 of ~5000 people who managed to kill him so far.

I am currently playing in a guild recently killed mythic mistress after nearly a month of practcie. I wouldn't call this kind of group/guild a mythic raid guild. The skill niveau of some of my mates is so low that it hurts very hard sometimes. It is a L2P issue.

What kind of group other than a "mythic raid guild" would spend a month on a difficult boss for basically no rewards?

[potis]

What kind of group other than a "mythic raid guild" would spend a month on a difficult boss for basically no rewards?

I am pretty sure he is trying to explain that the term is too widely used, he can see that his own guild is way too sucky for fights like mistress and it takes them over a month yet they claim to be a Mythic Raiding guild and they are supposed to raid in the end.

And i can kinda accept that, its the reason why i quit raiding with anyone apart from IRL friends and familiars online for the last 5-6 years and gave up completely on Mythic/Older HC raiding back then.

There are too many delusional players out there but believe clearing an instance 5-10 months after its relevant, in the form of WoW that we have now days somehow makes them godly players when in reality its "Throw ourselves on the boss with the tactics of others, it will die eventually"

When the reality is, they cant play outside of their rotation, they cant think for themselves, etc etc, all that makes an actual tryhard proper raider, they dont know what to do outside of their tiny bubble to adapt to situations presented, ever.

Thats why, its more fun to raid with terrible players for my standards that know they are terrible, than delusional terrible players that dont understand how incredibly shit they are for the level of play they are claiming.

Of course those guilds always have 1-5 players out of the 20 that are exceptional, it doesnt apply to every single person.

All in all, a guild will disband when the 1-5 players had enough of the other 15 delusionals because they are wiping on bosses they shouldnt for a longer time than they should.

Its how guild disbanding always worked

[Millyraynge]

What kind of group other than a "mythic raid guild" would spend a month on a difficult boss for basically no rewards?

what alternative we had? cancel the raids and stay offline?

[Teri]

4 days later, 81 guilds.

Still 2 months to go and that number will likely double at least with the power gains from crucible and overall loot (+AK increases).

Heroic loot titanforging probably plays big a role in decline as well tho if things get hard, people are like "why bother if..."

[theburned]

Heroic loot titanforging probably plays big a role in decline as well tho if things get hard, people are like "why bother if..."

Well before you always had the guarantee of "oh well if we do a few more resets most people will be mostly full mythic geared. For this tier it was tuned for like 5 ilvls over for the top guilds, mostly 933-935 for top 10 guilds, and raid progression leads more and more towards blizzard deciding when you kill stuff than what kinda gear you get, most of it comes down to a combination of AK/nerfs/crucible, but having killed an extra boss isnt necessarily that good as most people already have better gear than the base drops, so anything that isnt titanforged just gets disenchanted or something

[Deja Thoris]

The issue with current mythic imo is that Blizzard seems to have made it so that nerfs are mandatory. They should just tune the raid for the average mythic guild and let Method clear it in 1 day.

Thats just awful design. It should be tuned to be hard for the first people that get there and nerfs should happen through gear / traits / whatever. It's objectively a better design and lets people grow to meet the challenge. Your idea is just crap.

[Marrilaife]

I am currently playing in a guild recently killed mythic mistress after nearly a month of practcie. I wouldn't call this kind of group/guild a mythic raid guild. The skill niveau of some of my mates is so low that it hurts very hard sometimes. It is a L2P issue.

Well if you feel so much better than them, why don't you just join a better guild? For them it seems an appropriate challenge. They put a month of work, they killed it.

There are too many delusional players out there but believe clearing an instance 5-10 months after its relevant, in the form of WoW that we have now days somehow makes them godly players when in reality its "Throw ourselves on the boss with the tactics of others, it will die eventually"

I don't see them claiming to be godly players, and tbh I know people from those "1k ranked guilds" and most of them don't claim that (there will be always people full of themselves but they exist even in heroic or normal too). It's just that they finished heroic way too quickly, what are they gonna do? So they start mythic, assuming they have the numbers. All I see some guy claiming this guild is shit, so probably he doesn't belong there, only in some more skilled environment, assuming he's indeed better than them.

"Mythic raider" is not a badge of "pro player" in the same manner as "university student" doesn't mean you're a "genius" or you think you are. It just means you moved forward from heroic raiding / high school, with what result and does it mean a lot, that's another question.

The issue with current mythic imo is that Blizzard seems to have made it so that nerfs are mandatory. They should just tune the raid for the average mythic guild and let Method clear it in 1 day.

There was another thread on similar topic, something along the lines "should mythic be tuned more like Emerald Nightmare than TOS", and the uproar was immense, generally along the lines "dumbing down the game pls no". So since some portion of the playerbase is against "easier mythic" and some other is against "pulling teeth hard mythic", Blizzard chose the solution that both parties can have something for themselves, the hardcores have the "pre-nerf" version and the people who just wanna continue after heroic and get some more content without it being too hardcore, get the nerfed version.

Personally I think it should be more gradual than what we're getting now, but same happened to NH, specific roadblock bosses like spellblade or augur got nerfs, and when more guilds approached Gul'dan, he got nerfed too.

Another issue with your statement is there is no "average" mythic guild. The disparity in skill, time spent in raiding and out of raiding (ap farming, legendary farming, gearing up alts) is so huge between various mythic guilds there is no common denominator, unless you pick the lowest, and then indeed top guilds will get bored super quick. If we take a "median", let's say - 1,7k guilds cleared mythic Gul'dan pre-TOS, let's look at guild ranked 850, that guild skill wise will be closer to the last one than to the first one. The top guilds are really completely different league. There's probably a bigger skill gap between top mythic guilds and lower mythic guilds than between normal and heroic raiders. But the group is too small to add yet another difficulty mode, dividing mythic into "casual mythic" and "hardcore mythic" is too much work for how small it is a portion of the total playerbase.

The idea isn't to just make a cutoff "must be this tall to raid mythic", the only cutoff here is "must have 20 people on the team", the idea is to provide content for as many players as possible, and it's kinda hard when the group is fairly small, yet so diverse, with vast skill, attitude and dedication differences.

People like to talk in black & white, either you're an amazing player or a shit one. Truth is there is no either or, it's a very long scale of various levels of skill.

[Inukenshin]

Tuning has been garbage this tier indeed. All bosses need huge across the board nerfs, especially last two.
Personally they should not ever tune bosses with top 10 guilds in mind. Tuning should be done for top 500-1000 mythic guilds. This way top 10 guilds will be quickly done with content (they clear it in 1-2 weeks anyways, so nothing will change for them), while rest of guilds won't struggle/disband because of shitty tuning.

Why do you want everything to be easy? You enjoy just farming bosses that fall over for months at a time? Go do Heroic.

[Riistov]

what is considered to be the correct number of guilds to have achieved cutting edge at this point?

I don't think there is a set number, but 60 after 2 months is insanely low.

The difficulty jump this tier is causing a great deal of apathy in the raiding community atm. At least from my perspective.

[TOM_RUS]

Why do you want everything to be easy? You enjoy just farming bosses that fall over for months at a time? Go do Heroic.

I don't want it to be easy, I want it to be not overtuned. ToS is overtuned across the board, all bosses. Tuning should be done so an average mythic guild (top 5000) could finish raid before next one opens. It's not the case with ToS currently.

Overall I think Mythic raiding should be made more accessible to players. Right now it's audience is very low. I think good target would be 50% of those who cleared HC should also clear mythic. But this is only possible if it's made flexible.

[jce4ever]

I don't think there is a set number, but 60 after 2 months is insanely low.

The difficulty jump this tier is causing a great deal of apathy in the raiding community atm. At least from my perspective.

82 now...

[Hahyestwo]

Blackhand had 717 kills before patch 6.2 (including Asia). I'm using Blackhand because he was last xpacs mid-tier endboss who didn't have an end of xpac lull to boost kill numbers (pre-patch). I haven't been keeping up with Antorus updates (dat casual life), but we'll see where KJ ends up. I think kills will come flooding in and we will end up in a similar spot with KJ, but I could be wrong. Also, there's really no way to know how many capable guilds quit/ won't bother. I know the raiders in my guild took a nice long break not bothering to progress on Avatar until the crucible rolled out.

[Ahovv]

Hahaha, of course Tennisace wants mythic to be a joke rather than just raid a lower difficulty.

[stomination]

I know this is anecdotal, but it seems particularly rough for most guilds in Legion than it had even in Warlords.

I was in one of those multi-raid team guilds for almost the entirety of the expansion, and we went from having 7 cutting edge teams to what appears to be 1 (still progressing on avatar) in Tomb. Some teams retired, some just fell apart, some showed up to raid missing people who just don't care any more. I don't think Tomb is 'too hard' per se, I think it's more of a disparity between the effort required to clear mythic versus the reality of titanforging and luck. Sure- 950 titanforges are rare, but when you can complete the weeks 'raiding' in under 2 hours (Normal and Heroic), you start to ask yourself if 8-14 hours a week is even worth it.

I think its more that we get older with more responsibilities.

Raiding has one flaw with the gamers of today......Scheduling it in.

- - - Updated - - -

82 now...

Now 92.

/10char

[Deleted]

Thats just awful design. It should be tuned to be hard for the first people that get there and nerfs should happen through gear / traits / whatever. It's objectively a better design and lets people grow to meet the challenge. Your idea is just crap.

What we have now is not mythic. We have regular mythic (post-nerf mythic) that is not available the first weeks of the raid. And we have ultra-mythic (pre-nerf mythic) that is only available the first weeks of the raid.

Nerfs and buffs to bosses are supposed to be tweaks where mistakes were made to bring bosses back in line with intended difficulty. This is not what's happening right now. Right now we have two inteded difficulties, pre-nerf and post-nerf.

Blizzard might as well just add another difficulty officially if that's what they want.

I am not arguing that the current post-nerf difficulty should be lowered. I'm arguing that the pre-nerf difficulty should never exist, because pre-nerf difficulty we'd have maybe 10 guilds able to clear the raid in 6 months.

[Deleted]

Tuning should be done so an average mythic guild (top 5000) could finish raid before next one opens. It's not the case with ToS currently.

Top 5000... I don't even. You realize that would literally mean tuning it easier than heroic right? That is no communication/no prep/no fucks given level.

Btw guys check out archimonde kill count after two months... dead raid mode right there. Shortsighted drones.

[Mercane]

I think its more that we get older with more responsibilities.

Raiding has one flaw with the gamers of today......Scheduling it in.

I was very much all about that Cutting Edge life until Tomb, I mean, we were a 'casual' cutting edge and only raided 9 hours a week, but- it just got to the point where, was it really worth all that time just to enter the next raid 10 ilvls higher? Dungeons aren't a problem, I'm high enough ilvl to be nearly auto-accepted into groups, and the 'prestige' isn't really there anymore.

I wouldn't say it's a 'scheduling issue' as much as it's a 'it's not worth it (to me)' issue. To each their own.

[TOM_RUS]

Top 5000... I don't even. You realize that would literally mean tuning it easier than heroic right? That is no communication/no prep/no fucks given level.

Over 10000 guilds cleared heroic, so half of them clearing mythic sound like a good goal. And ofc no way it should be easier than heroic. It should be much easier than current mythic, but harder than heroic.

[Noodleface]

What Blizzard should really do is start the nerfs after the top 10 have completed the raid. Beyond that who even cares, unless the top 10 is missing the US or some other big region which is another story anyways.

They should've gradually thrown in 2-5% nerfs every week until more guilds started downing bosses.