why crucible is stupid

[THEORACLE64]

“why crucible is stupid”.... why crucible is stupid....

[lonely zergling]

just tried it 5 minutes ago, seems fixed, all 3 restored relics had absolute same paths.

Tried it an hour ago, worked.

[Ebalina]

It means that its not a instance final reward, which in its own way is good, because if you got the perfect item 1st time then you'd be complaining that there nothing else to obtain or do.

Its a balance, and because only 0.01% of player are realistically bothered about "having to have" the best item instantly its really a moot point.

What your after is an instant quick and easy reward, well it isn't one.

The alternative .... would be to make it a rare drop and have you keep killing that one mob for a very small chance of it to drop.

Least this way you get a usable item out of it while not "perfect" is still usable and likely a small upgrade.

And the "maybe a huge upgrade for others" is a non arguement your using to prop up your point of view. WoW has never since launch catered for anyone but the individual player when it comes to loot from vendors. The ONE exception is personal loot in the last 2 expansions and then ONLY if its not an upgrade for a player in any way but that is not vendor loot.
With vendor loot .... not a chance, its either good or not, you can't and won't be able to give it to others once opened, its a personal reward not a raid or group reward.

You are as dumb as they come mate.
Please do not procreate ever like don't even think about it.

You completely miss the point of RELICS and how they are obtained via raids and dungeons and not only by vendors.
WoW is a multiplayer game not a fucking single player one to cater to 1 person, you do not complete raids alone not even dungeons for that matter therefor relics you obtain by those 2 should be excluded from been BoP even when put trough the crucible because if they are useless for you they might be useful for one of your party members, but hey you once again missed the point of why the crucible sucks donkey balls.

Please stick to what i 1st wrote and don't ever post again thanks in advance the humankind.

Infracted

[judgementofantonidas]

There already are cookie cutter lists of whats best, but the problem is we as players have no control over that whatsoever. It would be like giving randomized talents to choose from and you have no control over what you're given. Sound fun? because it sure as fuck doesn't to me.

so far it has looked fairly controlable. grind till you get a trinket with a stat you want. crucible it for a nifty second talent and a third meh talent. least for prot paladin.

[Dangg]

More Diablo mechanics

[Hubbl3]

Nope, casuals don't care. It's just a fun new mechanic for them to play with.

How is it a fun mechanic? The crucible is not very engaging.

[Zyrosis]

so far it has looked fairly controlable. grind till you get a trinket with a stat you want. crucible it for a nifty second talent and a third meh talent. least for prot paladin.

As a Havoc DH it's a bit worse when only 1 of the weapon traits that the relic could have is good at all and everything else is literal trash. Then it doesn't help that there are literally only 3 sources of that trait on a Shadow Relic and non of them have been from current content since EN (Maw of Souls, Nythendra and Broken Isles World Boss). Now you COULD get that trait for the third tier on the crucible, but the chances are still pretty slim. Went through 10 relics none had that trait on the 3rd tier. That's why the crucible is pure garbage due entirely to the uncontrollable nature save the default trait.

[thesmall001]

The variance between Tier 2 traits is so fractionally small, even on a class that greatly benefits from Haste/Speed, that it is beyond absurd to even consider overriding loot council or ep/gp settings for it.

I get where you're coming from with the point about RNG on bonus traits but there was a perfectly acceptable system of dealing with this before we had a chance at the extra trait and knowing whether weapon ilvl is a huge factor for a class should be part of your loot distribution optimisations already. The bonus trait is huge consolation to trait-driven specs who can now upgrade from non-limited sources much more easily. This creates parity between traits and weapon ilvl.

At the top end, you should still prioritise critical primary traits on the relics that drops and use OS rules for upgrades that do not use the primary trait. I really cannot express how little of an issue this optimisation will be on your raids success outside of a fringe example like BrM Tanks who can get 12% TDR from a single trait. I cant think of a single example out of Rogue, Warrior, Hunter, Shadow, Ret and WW where a single point in a single trait is more important that 15 ilvls by more than 2%.

[Sorshen]

Another layer of RNG, how could it not be basically stupid? It's there to keep you playing/farming.

[judgementofantonidas]

As a Havoc DH it's a bit worse when only 1 of the weapon traits that the relic could have is good at all and everything else is literal trash. Then it doesn't help that there are literally only 3 sources of that trait on a Shadow Relic and non of them have been from current content since EN (Maw of Souls, Nythendra and Broken Isles World Boss). Now you COULD get that trait for the third tier on the crucible, but the chances are still pretty slim. Went through 10 relics none had that trait on the 3rd tier. That's why the crucible is pure garbage due entirely to the uncontrollable nature save the default trait.

pardon me if I am not going to base my comments solely on the flavor of the month class.

[Tradu]

pardon me if I am not going to base my comments solely on the flavor of the month class.

Luckily Havoc is nowhere near FotM currently(and hasn't been for a while), if anything it's the opposite.

[Deleted]

The fact that a 15 ilvl higher version of same relic(only crucible traits are different (no Fof dmg)) is a downgrade, while pre crucible it wouldve been a uprade.
Or choosing anything but fof as last crucible trait on my sims a 100k dps loss which at higher gear would be even more due it being % speaks for itself

[Meiffert]

It means that its not a instance final reward, which in its own way is good, because if you got the perfect item 1st time then you'd be complaining that there nothing else to obtain or do.

Its a balance, and because only 0.01% of player are realistically bothered about "having to have" the best item instantly its really a moot point.

The thing is, 99 % of players never got "full BiS" and completed all the content and run out.
You had to play pretty seriously to do that.

Then they added the warforge system and even the simple 6 ilvl warforge in SoO was already enough to keep the carrot going for the whole year. (It was the final instance of an expansion and, as is typical, lasted twice as long and I was still missing 2 BiS WF pieces at the end of it after farming every week.)

Now we have warforge/titanforge in 5 ilvl steps with increasing rarity capping at ridiculous amounts, random sockets and tertiary stats on top of it.
Might seem like a decent idea - at least even the hardcore players won't run out of possible upgrades.

The problem is, the hardcore players want to run out of upgrades. That has always been the idea - instead of playing 3 evenings a week for a couple hours, they play 24/7 for a few weeks and then they can relax, farm up the BiS in the weekly clear, with a possible alt run or two, while spending time with their family, doing their job or school assignments and be ready for the next tier in half a year when they will go 24/7 for two weeks again.

Instead, now you can just never stop if you want to stay competitive.
After you fully clear, you start gearing up alts to do splits and you continue running 6 full mythic clears every week with 4 mains in each group farming titanforges with sockets and now also relics (you have to split the players into groups so that you can get all the high TF strong trait relics for yourself, because each of them still has a high chance to either have weak t2 or second trait).

So, for 99.9 % of players, this means nothing (and it's just an annoyance to have to visit the crubicle after every relic), while for 0.1 % of the players it's a reason to get burned out and quit.
What exactly is fun about it? I don't get it. You click on a menu a few times and get a passive bonus that has no effect on your gameplay.

I understand that they wanted it to be another gradual buff to players (on top of AP and gear progression), because they prefer it over gradually nerfing the instance as they did in the past (ICC, DS). But why add another two layers of RNG to it?

[Puri]

So after a few weeks I have two rather practical complaints:
It's very annoying when you get a better relic or enough AP for a new level that you have to go to the NC to "infuse" it, especially with an army of alts. Just add the NC as a new tab in the order hall artifact forge.
And second running with a mixed alt/main group is more than annoying. "Hey, you got a relic with the perfect trait. It's 15 itemlevels less than what I have, but it could roll perfectly!". Happened twice to me in the last weeks, both time I passed it on (while it was an upgrade for me, no matter the NC roll) but it was a downgrade for the mains. I've started joining random m+ groups instead of guild groups to avoid this issue.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

After reading through a few of these threads, it's clear that the Netherlight Crucible is a divisive subject. My overall impression (not speaking for everyone, just my impression from reading the threads) is that those who would like to raid, min-max, and play less between raids... these players are frustrated because the crucible makes it harder to accomplish all three of those goals. Those who enjoy playing more often, like power-ups but aren't fussed about min-maxing, and mostly just want ways to progress on their characters every day... these players enjoy it as something else to play with. This whole expansion has seen this divide come up over and over with legendaries, AP, etc.; I don't reckon it's an easy conundrum for Blizz to solve.

[Selerian]

It's bad because it adds another RNG element to an already RNG plagued expansion. And no, RNG is not fun unless you play the game in the most basic level, which a large portion of the community does not. And no, it doesn't only affect the superhardcore players who want to min/max, it affects everyone who want to play correctly. And those people that say it's not a big deal and the system is fine should just stfu because you are not offering any actual arguments in favor of Crucible, you are only saying that you don't care if it causes a number of problems as stated by many above. Well even if you don't care (subjectively) the system remains flawed (objectively) and people are rightfully pissed about it.

A few months ago, during a Q&A with Ion, he had commented on a question about secondary stats and their strength relatively to primary stats that they didn't like the fact that on some occasions (eg mages) you ended up downgrading the hell out of your gear in order to get your desired secondary stat, making looting and itemizing a really frustrating procedure. "Hey wow I got an awesome 940 ilvl thingy. Oh wait it has bad secondaries, guess I'll hold on to my 910 old item and vendor this".
Thank god they learnt from their mistakes...

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Luckily Havoc is nowhere near FotM currently(and hasn't been for a while), if anything it's the opposite.

I switched to Havoc for a friend who wanted to try tanking M+. Haven't played it much at all, but was doing >1m dps just following the Max DPS addon. I'm no expert (obviously lol) but it seemed just fine to me.

[Tradu]

I switched to Havoc for a friend who wanted to try tanking M+. Haven't played it much at all, but was doing >1m dps just following the Max DPS addon. I'm no expert (obviously lol) but it seemed just fine to me.

It's "fine"(especially at lower levels of play), but it's definitely one of the weaker DPS specs. Try doing the same with an equally geared Arms warrior, moonkin, sub rogue etc and you'll immediately notice the difference.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

It's "fine"(especially at lower levels of play), but it's definitely one of the weaker DPS specs. Try doing the same with an equally geared Arms warrior, moonkin, sub rogue etc and you'll immediately notice the difference.

Got'cha. I was looking at the meter for "Total DPS" half way through the run, too, so it included a mix of boss and trash dps. Also it was Maw, so the first boss included some adds. All of which would have padded my numbers.

- - - Updated - - -

And those people that say it's not a big deal and the system is fine should just stfu

Well thanks Selerian; we appreciate and respect your point of view as well.

[Shakou]

News for some of you Blizz fanboys/white knights: there's a capped out 500 post thread on Blizz 7.3 PTR Feedback forum about this, that Lore had responded to, that is about 99% negative on Crucible and for very sound reasons.

The Netherlight Crucible And You

...and a similar thread: Please Cancel the Netherlight Crucible.

I'll predict that this is not going to go well, and more people will be quitting because of it. People are just fed up and burned out with the endless RNG, time gates, slow downs, and bullshit that Legion has been from the git.

No guy, you people are an extreme minority of loud and vocal but 100% crazy people.

Here is reality:

#1 The Nether Crucible is NOT a fucking time gate it's not a fucking slow down it's not anything you are trying to label it as, it's just another added bonus that you gain passively from playing the game you fucking weirdo. In this case the passive bonus is that you might get a 2nd swing at a better trait on any relic that you get, + other bonuses that are all relatively equal. Furthermore Legion has had no more "time gating" relative to any other expansion, except when it comes to gaining ap and leveling your artifact. That's long since been taken care of.

#2 If you are having difficulties figuring out how to distribute loot in 7.3 because of the Nether Crucible, you probably want to consider joining a guild with people that are not insane and totally irrational. NOTHING CHANGED AT ALL that would make loot different. People go for BIS trait relics only over anything else. If you're doing it any other way you are doing it wrong. Period end of discussion. Bonuses you roll are a BONUS. JUST A BONUS. Ya dig?

#3 The only "new" RNG system in Legion is the Legendary System. There are no other systems that were added to this game that are RNG based, and not a single other system that people complain about is at all in any way shape or form even necessary to get through all of the game's content (i.e. titanforging). There is literally no more RNG in this game now on the whole, than there ever was before, they've just given you more options to get gear you're after if we're really being honest about what the game is like now. Although I think the game should have tier vendors for previous raids like Cata did it, because who the fuck is even going to grind old raids for gear when they're trying to play catch up anyways, and I think that some better way to target legendaries should be launched with Antorus but otherwise? Most of the complainers are just whiny fucks.

Here's what you people need to do: Quit treating the game like a mother fucking job, quit being insanely idiotic crazy people that think if you don't have the absolutely best piece of gear that drops then what you have isn't good enough at all, smoke a blunt, have sex. Go outside. But mostly stop being whiny ass bitches.
Infracted