So...Why is none of the NPCs powerfull and awesome anymore?

[Deleted]

So i did the last part of the Argus campaign and i was actually really exited to play it through, since it showed alot of NPC interaction, fighting beside Turalyon and Velen, and doing the new dungeon with Alleria, but something really struck me, something that woke up a thing that have annoyed me for a while.

...Why are none of the NPC characters powerfull or atleast just doing something awesomely powerfull in-game? Are NPCs not allowed to be awesome anymore?

From a lore standpoint, characters like Velen, Alleria and especially Turalyon are very powerfull and can do powerfull things. They should be able to stand on their own against most enemies and do great things....But in the game, compared to the player, they do nearly nothing. Turalyon should be cleaving through demons and burning them down with holy fire, yet he does very little even compared to my follower companion. Alleria in new dungeon was even set up to be very important, but from a player standpoint, she did nothing but open a few doors.

I can understand, that from a gameplay point of view, it is not good to have NPCs doing all the work, but i really feel like we are making all the NPCs in the game seem weak, when they are not allowed to actually kill enemies anymore. Illidan seems insanly powerfull in the Xe'ra Cinematic, yet he seems to have his hands full when he is just dealing with minor demons in-game. For me, this makes it harder to look up to these characters and idolize them. While Turalyon looks cool, i feel like a guy like Tirion is actually even stronger and i think something is wrong about that.

I remember back to the days of Erunak Stonespeaker, who used Forked Lightning 5-6 enemies and 1-shot them. The Lillian Voss storyline in the Tirisfal Glades, where she jumps around killing lvl approbiate NPCs. The entire Battle of Undercity, where we really got to see why our faction leaders deserved to be our faction leaders. It is sooooo long since we have had an awesome moment, where an NPC actually comes in and does something amazing.
Creating these moments for new characters would help. Having one of the outposts on Argus be attacked only for Turalyon to warp in and slice through some elites would make it much easier to see him as powerfull. Having Velen go with us on a quest and heal characters to full health and burn down big enemies would also help his image.

TL;DR: It seems like NPCs in current WoW are not allowed to be cool and awesome in-game. I think that something is lost because of this. Characters like Turalyon and Velen would be alot easier to see as cool characters, if they actually got into combat and showed their power. Right now, i sadly feel like the players are saving a world full of weak people, who can do absolutely nothing to defend themselfs.

What is your standpoint on the current in-game powerlvl of the major NPC characters?

You're seriously asking this question during the expansion that stars everyone's favourite (YMMV) emo Anti-Hero, Illidan?

You know, that guy that disintegrated Guldan in Nighthold?

The intended vessel for Sargeras?

The same guy who warped Argus into orbit around Azeroth?

The dude who one shot a Naaru?

Are you playing the same game?

[Pull My Finger]

OP I think you're making this up and twisting stuff so that it sounds that way, only to have something to complain about. I think it's absurd. Every major lore character is freakin' demigod at this point, and we're constantly being reminded of it.

[Flurryfang]

You're seriously asking this question during the expansion that stars everyone's favourite (YMMV) emo Anti-Hero, Illidan?

You know, that guy that disintegrated Guldan in Nighthold?

The intended vessel for Sargeras?

The same guy who warped Argus into orbit around Azeroth?

The dude who one shot a Naaru?

Are you playing the same game?

See if you are actually playing the game, you would see that he is very underwhelming. Blizzard have put all this up around this guy, but be can hardly hold his own against some lowly demons in-game. Just because he is here, does not mean that he is well represented. This is the guy, that is supposed to be the "hero" of this expansion, this is the guy i am gonna feel deservant of leaving behind as the keeper of the titans at the end of this patch and yet... The only depiction of his power in-game, is him flaying about fighting some bats in the game and doing it quite bad.

But on a more serious note, there is a problem in the game when a great character is not shown being a badass outside a few cinematics. That is pretty much what this is all about and will hopefully help with you confusing.

[Flurryfang]

OP I think you're making this up and twisting stuff so that it sounds that way, only to have something to complain about. I think it's absurd. Every major lore character is freakin' demigod at this point, and we're constantly being reminded of it.

Im gonna refer to my comment ^^^^ up there, but i will rewrite it a bit.

Yes many of the characters in this game is supposed to be demigods, heroic champions of ancient power or just massive badasses, yet what does that mean? Are you powerfull when you are a demigod or a High Exarch? One would believe that, but when you look in-game for the answer, you get "not really". Turalyon, the 2nd big badass of this expansion, have done nothing cool in-game, quite the opposite, he has shown to be able to do very little when paired up with the player... And it is quite hard to idolize, respect and understand the title of High Exarch when this guy can hardly kill a named elite.

These major characters are supposed to be insane strong and Blizzard does their best trying to explain why they are strong, but they never show it, not in away, that the player can compare to them or even just try it. Illidan killed Xe'ra, a prime naaru, but we did not see Xe'ra do anything so we have no idea if that is actually a big feat. Turalyon attacks illidan and wounds him with his sword, but since killing of Xe'ra and the killing of a completly drained Gul'dan showed very little in the form of Illidans power, we don't even know if Turalyon and his blade is strong. I had expected him to be able to cleave the ship with his light-infused body/armor, yet he barely made a cut on illidans arm.

All these questions are not being answered and merely left to the passive actions, that these characters do. I think this is a problem, because if Blizzard want players to cling to these characters, they have to make them awesome and they just arent right now!

[MonsieuRoberts]

Because we've accelerated far beyond all but the most extreme NPCs in power ourselves.

We're not just adventurers anymore. We're wielders of Doomhammer, Ashbringer, the remnants of Frostmourne etc.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I love how people say this sort of thing as if it wasn't always the case with MMOs.

It has always been this way, you fed Old Blanchy and then the next human priest did and the next one and the next one. You saved Orgrimmar from the threat in Ragefire Chasm and then the next group did and the next one and the next one. Or killing Onyxia only to see xxleetdoodxx getting his one shoutout in town among ten that day for killing her, too.

Did you really think that you alone were doing super unique things in the past or something?

Unique? No. But everyone being Jesus level? Not usually. Everyone now is the center of creation weather they get anything done or not. Could be 860 log in once a week and be hailed as god in WoW now. That's why it's different.

[Flurryfang]

That's a good example of gameplay taking priority over showing off an NPC. We can't exactly just take Illidan along with us on all out quests, and it would just be a clusterfuck if they had like 200 bats constantly charging at him in that spot so he could look awesome killing them all over and over again. So eh.

That is a good example of an entire situation done wrong. Why is illidan even in front of that camp? To show him in action?? If Blizzard wanted to show him in action, they could have done something like a timed event, where some elite demons came crashing down in the camp, who were phased out so the player could not attack them... And then have Illidan take those big demons out without a problem. That would show power, that would match with his written character and put him in action at the same time.

In that scenario, gameplay is not taking priority over anything, because the scenario does absolutely nothing for anything. It is a useless thing. Atleast Blizzard could have given him some real action, that made the character say "Dayum!".

[Flurryfang]

You're kinda downplaying that scene I think. Turalyon didn't "wound his arm", Illidan literally just caught his sword - while clearly already spent - like it was a kid swinging a cardbard tube at him and sure, his hand bled a little since it's a sharp object.

He catched it, with an open hand, so clearly is a battle between Turalyons lightenfused sword Vs Illidans bare-hand. That would be a cool Vs if we actually had seen Turalyon use that sword do something awesome, but he does not really do this. From my point of view, Turalyon might aswell have been a common Army of Light soldier who swung at Illidan and that downplays the entire situation alot.

Illidan is set up as a powerful character, but we have never really seen his power be tested. Put that together with us not seeing Turalyon be strong at all and you have a pretty boring scene/climax of a cinematic.

[Risale]

Nomi is the most powerful NPC in the game... he can burn your ingredients in the blink of an eye.

Even the Old Gods are afraid of Nomi.

[Flurryfang]

Because we've accelerated far beyond all but the most extreme NPCs in power ourselves.

We're not just adventurers anymore. We're wielders of Doomhammer, Ashbringer, the remnants of Frostmourne etc.

The problem is that apperantly we have even surpassed these extreme NPCs, yet the game treats us like we have not, which sets up a disruption in the game between story/lore and gameplay. It is like having a legendary character finally come into play during Legion, that has killed powerful enemies and saved us several times in the lore, but he is shown as a lvl 49 character with 2730 hp inside the game. That is kind of the things happening right now. Turalyon for example is supposed to be this mighty guy, that is supposedly going to be a major factor in the battle against the Legion, yet he sits on his ass in the Vindicar and is just as good as killing demons as light elemental.

[Deleted]

Yeah, this is a problem.

In the tank challenge tower, Velen is "assisting" you fighting a demon but you're really just babysitting him. He does nothing.

[Destinas]

Looking back at raids like Icecrown Citadel, Firelands, Dragon Soul, Siege of Orgrimmar, and Hellfire Citadel, the heroes were only partially credited for their roles in taking down every major threat. Even in Highmaul, Mar'gok was killed by Cho'gall in mythic, and in Heart of Fear the Sha of Fear abandons Shek'zeer at the end by taking away his power. Illidan, Velen, Malfurion and Khadgar even took part in Legion raids - it seems some NPCs will take part in Antorus fights as well. It took away from player characters feeling like the ultimate badasses despite being the ones that took down the Lich King, Old Gods, and even Elemental Lords, only for the well-known NPC to get the last kill. However, there's also an argument for some that feel like they've lost the ability to be a simple adventurer because of this.

In Legion specifically, we have weapons from some of these heroes. Tirion Fordring and Thrall can't be the ultimate heroes anymore, because we have their super strong weapons - especially since Tirion is now dead, and Chris Metzen left Blizzard (though he will still voice Thrall in the future). After having our characters save countless people on nearly every continent, plane, and several worlds, it fell to the NPC with a history already to take the credit. We've become the commander on Draenor, and the Order Hall leaders now. In my opinion, we should be more notable than the NPC that simply tells us what the threat is before they get the killing blow.

The other part of it is that there are far too many important characters written into WoW's lore. Not everyone can get a proper spotlight to showcase how strong and important they are as often nowadays.

[Deleted]

See if you are actually playing the game, you would see that he is very underwhelming.

Underwhelming compared to whom? He eye-melted Gul'dan and a Prime Naaru. He tanked Kil'jaeden with a priest and a mage.

Lets not forget Varian, Khadgar, Velen and Alleria.

[FelPlague]

So i did the last part of the Argus campaign and i was actually really exited to play it through, since it showed alot of NPC interaction, fighting beside Turalyon and Velen, and doing the new dungeon with Alleria, but something really struck me, something that woke up a thing that have annoyed me for a while.

...Why are none of the NPC characters powerfull or atleast just doing something awesomely powerfull in-game? Are NPCs not allowed to be awesome anymore?

From a lore standpoint, characters like Velen, Alleria and especially Turalyon are very powerfull and can do powerfull things. They should be able to stand on their own against most enemies and do great things....But in the game, compared to the player, they do nearly nothing. Turalyon should be cleaving through demons and burning them down with holy fire, yet he does very little even compared to my follower companion. Alleria in new dungeon was even set up to be very important, but from a player standpoint, she did nothing but open a few doors.

I can understand, that from a gameplay point of view, it is not good to have NPCs doing all the work, but i really feel like we are making all the NPCs in the game seem weak, when they are not allowed to actually kill enemies anymore. Illidan seems insanly powerfull in the Xe'ra Cinematic, yet he seems to have his hands full when he is just dealing with minor demons in-game. For me, this makes it harder to look up to these characters and idolize them. While Turalyon looks cool, i feel like a guy like Tirion is actually even stronger and i think something is wrong about that.

I remember back to the days of Erunak Stonespeaker, who used Forked Lightning 5-6 enemies and 1-shot them. The Lillian Voss storyline in the Tirisfal Glades, where she jumps around killing lvl approbiate NPCs. The entire Battle of Undercity, where we really got to see why our faction leaders deserved to be our faction leaders. It is sooooo long since we have had an awesome moment, where an NPC actually comes in and does something amazing.
Creating these moments for new characters would help. Having one of the outposts on Argus be attacked only for Turalyon to warp in and slice through some elites would make it much easier to see him as powerfull. Having Velen go with us on a quest and heal characters to full health and burn down big enemies would also help his image.

TL;DR: It seems like NPCs in current WoW are not allowed to be cool and awesome in-game. I think that something is lost because of this. Characters like Turalyon and Velen would be alot easier to see as cool characters, if they actually got into combat and showed their power. Right now, i sadly feel like the players are saving a world full of weak people, who can do absolutely nothing to defend themselfs.

What is your standpoint on the current in-game powerlvl of the major NPC characters?

You mean how varian destroyed a fel reaver
how anduin fucking slaughtered that dreadlord
how khadgar destroyed that dreadlord
how illidna utterly fucked guldan
How that captain charecter (cant remember her name) insta kills that demon on the bridge
how alleria saves your ass from the pitlord
how alleria took in the void
how illidan destroyed xera
how velen UTTERLY FUCKED that demon dude

[Flurryfang]

Having a dude on his hands and knees on the ground just reaching up and catching a two-handed sword that's being swung at him like that is pretty big just in and of itself.

I feel like maybe you're suffering from that "spectacle fatigue" or whatever a CM talked about once. Like you're expecting every little thing to be this massive Dragonball battle with worlds exploding and shit.

Yeah for a guy who normally fears swords, but Illidan is supposed to be this great awesome guy, who fears nothing and can kill demon lords. Him just catching a sword is pretty weak, especially when this sword is held by a character who have no known power. It is like me catching the stick my 8 year old nephew swings at me with, it might look cool, but there is not really much of an achievement in it.

You might say that spectacle fatigue have hit, but i don't think this is something i have brought onto myself, because it is a scene that Blizzard sets up. It is THEM that wants us to believe that we are getting near Dragonball battle lvl right now. We are up against TItans! and the strongest demons there ever will be.. I actually expect my heroes, the counters to these big bad guys, to actually be near them in powerlvl or atleast show that they are contributing to this fight overall.

[yetgdhfgh]

We have surpassed our betters and so we should

We couldnt be there lackeys forever when we have killed Kings and Titans, Elemental lords and Old Gods!

[Deleted]

Yeah for a guy who normally fears swords, but Illidan is supposed to be this great awesome guy, who fears nothing and can kill demon lords. Him just catching a sword is pretty weak, especially when this sword is held by a character who have no known power. It is like me catching the stick my 8 year old nephew swings at me with, it might look cool, but there is not really much of an achievement in it.

It was the Light-reforged Great Royal Sword wielded by the most powerful paladin in the Warcraft universe.

[Flurryfang]

You mean how varian destroyed a fel reaver
how alleria took i nthe void
how illidan destroyed xera
how velen UTTERLY FUCKED that demon dude

Varian was a badass and i am not here putting up a critique about him... He did his end very well

But the problem is with Alleria, Illidan and a bit of Velen.

Alleria takes in the void, but we have Shadow priests doing that right now and i don't see them getting applause inside the game.

Illidan kills Xe'ra, but we never saw her do anything. She never battle someone or took a shot from something big and survived, so we might aswell believe that she is as fragile as glass (Some people are actually beginning to believe that the naaru are very weak in body after that cinematic). This makes Illidans kill quite anti-climatic, because i have no idea if he really had to use some awesome power to kill her or just use the same eye beam my demon hunters uses.

And finally Velen killed a guy from 1 hp to 0 hp. He might have been immune, but it again did not really show how much power he has or how strong he is compared to the player. And that is pretty much what i am getting at with all of them. I have a huge problem setting up the powerlvl of all these major NPC characters beside the players power and while i think it is a bit wrong to use illidans defence of the Antoran Waste camp and Turalyons dmg during the Finding Velen questline as a base for their power, it is all Blizzard is giving us to go after.... And from that base, they are pretty weak.

- - - Updated - - -

It was the Light-reforged Great Royal Sword wielded by the most powerful paladin in the Warcraft universe.

Most powerful paladin in the warcraft universe... How do you know that? Aside from Blizzard just telling you it, how do you see it in the game? There is something callled show not tell, and Blizzard is horrible at the showing part. If i challenge your claim, you have no way to actually counter me and that is the problem.

- - - Updated - - -

Underwhelming compared to whom? He eye-melted Gul'dan and a Prime Naaru. He tanked Kil'jaeden with a priest and a mage.

Lets not forget Varian, Khadgar, Velen and Alleria.

He killed a completly weak gul'dan, my rogue could have taken that kill at that point and as shown earlier both here and in other threads, we have no idea how strong a Prime Naaru is, so he might aswell have broken a mirror with that eye beam.

And sure, he DID tank Kil'jaeden which helps a little, but then again, he did not take any dmg or do any dmg, so from the player point of view, he might aswell been a targeting dummy.

[iamthedevil]

We've been around longer. Let's say my characters age was the same as I was when I first stated playing. 18. Now add 13 years. 31.

My character is older than the leader of the Alliance. More battle experience than many NPCs. It's pretty impressive.

I still would like there to be more awesome lore characters though. It makes everything more exciting.

[Flurryfang]

In Legion specifically, we have weapons from some of these heroes. Tirion Fordring and Thrall can't be the ultimate heroes anymore, because we have their super strong weapons - especially since Tirion is now dead, and Chris Metzen left Blizzard (though he will still voice Thrall in the future). After having our characters save countless people on nearly every continent, plane, and several worlds, it fell to the NPC with a history already to take the credit. We've become the commander on Draenor, and the Order Hall leaders now. In my opinion, we should be more notable than the NPC that simply tells us what the threat is before they get the killing blow.

The other part of it is that there are far too many important characters written into WoW's lore. Not everyone can get a proper spotlight to showcase how strong and important they are as often nowadays.

I actually completly agree with you on one of your main points. Legion should really have been designed around the players being the undisputed strongest characters in the game and the NPCs are just assiting us, directing us around and guiding our power where it is needed. If they did that, the game would be fine, but Blizzard have despite us being so extremly powerful, still tried to set up even stronger characters(Velen, Turalyon, Alleria, Illidan and Velen) and yet they have not used the time to set their power above the players strenght.

I agree, that you of course can not give every single character in the game a prober spotlight, but i did not think that demanding that the 4 main characters of the entire expansion got the prober spotlight was too much :I