Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Soulwind]

Nah. I don't think Black Dragonflight will be corrupted by void. That would be lame as fuck. I think Wrathion, thought many people dislike him, will be the main figure this next expansion. There's noone who has lost more to the Old Gods than him, and he wasn't even born.

Think of it as the vengeance of the Black Dragonflight to the Old Gods. Wrathion will be likely corruption-proof, and his connection to the earth will make it able to "spy", not succumb, to N'zoth treachery. He will be the main character/narrator (Like Khadgar), and the most valuable asset in our final war to purge the Old Gods from Azeroth.

No need for corruption, but they could divide our allies into Light-aligned (Velen, Anduin, Turalyon) and Void-aligned (Alleria, Wrathion, others).

Since Horde and Alliance aren't that relevant anymore, having these two opposite views on how to defeat threats could be an interesting replacement.

We already have warlocks and demon hunters using fel magic, we've got DKs, Sylvanas and the Lich King using the plague, I think these "fight fire with fire" or "no matter the cost" ideals could be the source of many gray-moral situations and villains. And not because some of them suddenly go insane, but because our leaders choose to declare war on them after they cross some line they don't agree with.

snip

I see your point, and I sort of agree. Like I said, there better be a damn good story to justify this misdirection. In movies, when someone dies off-camera, there's always the chance of them coming back in a satisfying way. It can be predictable, it can be stupid or it can be very well done. Blizzard's writing isn't that great, we all know that, but from time to time they manage to surprise us.

I definitely disagree about most people not being OK with it ("nearly nobody"), considering most people don't know or care about the general lore, let alone details such as these. As for the few of us that actually read Chronicles, Wowpedia and such... we're nerds, we devour every new piece of lore that is thrown our way. We may complain about it later, but we're always wanting more.

[Lahis]

There's still a lot more to be revealed on argus, including last boss journal entry which is blank for lore reason, so I decided to restrain myself from assuming anything atm.

Aman'thul ripped Y'shaarj off the surface of Azeroth with his bare hands. Sargeras is pictured cleaving a planet in half. The true size of the Titans is not a question.

[rda]

Titans are big, planet sized beings. Their bodies were also destroyed millennia ago by Sargeras, and what is left of their souls has been put in new constructs.

I included as much in my quote so I am not sure why you thought I don't know what the justification is. The point is in #11787 above:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post47355718

[Drekmar]

Aman'thul ripped Y'shaarj off the surface of Azeroth with his bare hands. Sargeras is pictured cleaving a planet in half. The true size of the Titans is not a question.

Yes, that is correct. I was speaking about 7.3 lore.

[killwithpwr]

Chronicles still leaves some gaps. Probably nothing as large as Pandaria (in Azeroth), but they could write some new lore with new islands, dimensions or planets.



Not really a retcon, just... a stretch. The Titan spirits never made it to Azeroth, that's stated in Chronicles, now they're saying Sargeras somehow interrupted the process, captured them and has been torturing them ever since, which isn't exactly in-character for him, but whatever, he's always been cartoony-evil.

I'm not sure how much of them is left, how much is attached to some Watchers in Azeroth and how much simply got lost, and while this fragmentation of a god-like soul could be interesting, I doubt they're going to explore it properly. It's an excuse to resurrect a bunch of characters whose death was used for impact, and that's fairly weak writing.

Now they've got to show what story was so good that they felt this was necessary...

Thats what i meant.
I didnt say it was a straight up retcon, it could be seen as a lore plot hole that they just filled with Antorus...

Btw, i cannot check this atm cuz im at work on my phone, but did Amanthul's spirit made it to Antorus as well? Or is he missing from Antorus?

He should be missing, going by Chronicle vol 1 and MoP lore.

[Soulwind]

Thats what i meant.
I didnt say it was a straight up retcon, it could be seen as a lore plot hole that they just filled with Antorus...

Btw, i cannot check this atm cuz im at work on my phone, but did Amanthul's spirit made it to Antorus as well? Or is he missing from Antorus?

He should be missing, going by Chronicle vol 1 and MoP lore.

There is a model for him, but I don't think we know if he actually shows up in Argus or it's for a cutscene where they show them in the past.

If he shows up, it could be just a small part of him, powerless, as he gave that to Raden.

[killwithpwr]

Retconning Chronicles this soon after their publishing would be piss poor storytelling. Blizz could do it, but that would have made the whole effort of making the Chronicles in the first place pointless.

Antorus added to the Titan storyline, it doesn't contradict with Volume 1. In Volume 1 they said that the souls of the Pantheon tried to flee into Azeroth's Keepers, but couldn't get there for reasons then unknown. Antorus reveals that after they failed to reach the Keepers, Sargeras found and captured their souls to be tortured in Antorus. This will be spelled out in more detail in later Chronicle volume that depicts events around Legion timeframe and tells more about Argus after the Draenei left the planet.

There is a model for him, but I don't think we know if he actually shows up in Argus or it's for a cutscene where they show them in the past.

If he shows up, it could be just a small part of him, powerless, as he gave that to Raden.

Im still hoping for Wrathion to show up and continue his storyline...

I hate cliff hangers...

[Raetary]

During the raid the pantheon is there in form of essences.

They dont regain body till they get to the seat of the pantheon.

[Lahis]

Im still hoping for Wrathion to show up and continue his storyline...

I hate cliff hangers...

In couple of expansions they remember him.

"Oh shit we should have had this guy involved in Legion after all he did and said in MoP... Well let's just put him in the bus with Med'an, the players will eventually forget, right?"

[Aeluron Lightsong]

There is a model for him, but I don't think we know if he actually shows up in Argus or it's for a cutscene where they show them in the past.

If he shows up, it could be just a small part of him, powerless, as he gave that to Raden.

The model shown is his pre-Burning Legion/Mar'dum look.

[killwithpwr]

The model shown is his pre-Burning Legion/Mar'dum look.

Just to make sure, you know he's talking about Amanthul and not Sargeras... Right?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Just to make sure, you know he's talking about Amanthul and not Sargeras... Right?

I'm dumb, I think he meant Aman'thul not Sargeras.

[killwithpwr]

I'm dumb, I think he meant Aman'thul not Sargeras.

Well, no one is perfect....

I got bitten by a spider 2 days ago and still waiting for my six pack to show, glasses to be useless and some sticky webs to come out of my...

Oh nevermind.... It'll never happen #feelsbadman

[Marlamin]

ptr today.

Well, it is Tuesday. If it happens this week it is most likely to happen today. PTRs are currently still up and forums are still for 7.3. Should be seeing some activity in the next ~6 hours if it's going to be today.

[Futhark]

In couple of expansions they remember him.

"Oh shit we should have had this guy involved in Legion after all he did and said in MoP... Well let's just put him in the bus with Med'an, the players will eventually forget, right?"

Ebonhorn was originally supposed to be Wrathion before they realized his age made the story make no sense. I wish they could have salvaged it a different way: Wrathion exploring Neltharion's Lair would have been amazing. Plus, he was invested in the Legion invasion.

[rda]

BTW regarding retcons.

Previously the central figure for the Alliance was Lothar.

Now it is Turalyon. (For those who live under a rock, they said that it is Turalyon who rallied everyone to create the Alliance.)

My prediction: it will change again after Legion and the honor will go to someone else. Maybe even back to Lothar if we will have an expansion of the right theme.

[Raetary]

There is a model for him, but I don't think we know if he actually shows up in Argus or it's for a cutscene where they show them in the past.

If he shows up, it could be just a small part of him, powerless, as he gave that to Raden.

all of the models are in antorus, the pantheon gets new keeper sized physical bodies once they get to antorus.

[Deleted]

^^ A short list of ideas other than Kul Tiras / Azshara / The Void:

* Troggs. Underground. Gnome / mech themes. Some other dwarves maybe (think iron dwarves, but with something else in place of iron). Massive underground cities / passes / caverns. Treasure, obviously.

* Aqiri. Another type of underground. Old god influences. Insect-like creatures of many different types, including some humongous ones ("trains" which you can ride in?). Also treasure, but not like with dwarves - something not human-like, unique vessels, maybe some key materials are liquid / chameleon / something (good way to add hues).

I can continue, but I will stop at these two themes because I think that underground is a good choice because (a) lots of potential at truly new scenes / concepts, and (b) does not introduce new continents, the map is getting busy and other planets are completely meh (and don't even ask about "parallel dimensions" and similar stuff - it is crap).

An interconnected hive-like zone would be interesting. Claustrophobia much, but another race of aqir (probably N'zoth's) it's a really good guess.

[Soulwind]

all of the models are in antorus, the pantheon gets new keeper sized physical bodies once they get to antorus.

It'd be great if they addressed the fact that most of Aman'thul is in Ra-den, like, he could be senile, forgetful or bipolar, as if a big part of his personality was missing. But I'm afraid Blizzard won't dare breaking the character like that and will simply say that Aman'thul has "regrown" his soul and he's just fine.

With all the engineers working at Blizzard, it's disappointing they didn't come up with an idea for a corrupted "file" because of an interrupted "upload".

[Aeluron Lightsong]

An interconnected hive-like zone would be interesting. Claustrophobia much, but another race of aqir (probably N'zoth's) it's a really good guess.

Ironically I actually want a underground/sub-terrainian expansion.