EU Tries to fine Poland $75 Mil. Poland sends Germany $1Trillion bill for WWII

[Slant]

And you don't think the EU is looking a bit silly, pulling bills out of its ass every few weeks? I get reminded of the Blessed Exchequer from Star Trek.

They're not exactly pulling fines out of thin air. You need to stop with this line of reasoning, it's going nowhere. There's a procedure and there is proper review. And violations of the treaties are given ample time in advance to be rectified.

[Sarevokcz]

They're not exactly pulling fines out of thin air. You need to stop with this line of reasoning, it's going nowhere. There's a procedure and there is proper review. And violations of the treaties are given ample time in advance to be rectified.

its not Polands fault Merkel and Germany ignored treaties first, while other EU countries let unIDd illegals travel freely through shengen. Will EU fine germany for the economic and cultural setbacks they brought upon EU? no? then they have no right to fine any of the other countries for refusing to partake in it, especially when those migrants dont even want to go there and wouldnt stay there anyway...

[Slant]

its not Polands fault Merkel and Germany ignored treaties first, while other EU countries let unIDd illegals travel freely through shengen. Will EU fine germany for the economic and cultural setbacks they brought upon EU? no? then they have no right to fine any of the other countries for refusing to partake in it, especially when those migrants dont even want to go there and wouldnt stay there anyway...

It really just boils down to people screaming "But Germany", doesn't it. There is no economical setback, no cultural setback. The EU economies are all on the upswing, the refugee situation had virtually no impact on our economies. And there's no discernible change in our culture, either. Stop hyperboling.

[Sarevokcz]

It really just boils down to people screaming "But Germany", doesn't it. There is no economical setback, no cultural setback. The EU economies are all on the upswing, the refugee situation had virtually no impact on our economies. And there's no discernible change in our culture, either. Stop hyperboling.

if there are no setbacks, why is germany so hellbent to redistribute them then?

[Slant]

if there are no setbacks, why is germany so hellbent to redistribute them then?

Because everyone in the EU needs to share the burden. That's what makes the EU what it is. And the main goal isn't to relief Germany, it's to relief Greece and Italy. Two countries that are struggling with financial problems as it is. There's a limit to how much Germany can shoulder the burden. We've not reached it, yet, when push comes to shove, but it's there. And people need to learn that the EU isn't a cash cow that can be milked for free money. It's a project where everyone chips in. What is so hard to understand about that?

I'll never get how people can be so fucking entitled as to holding out their hand when it's time for money to be spread around but they'll absolutely refuse any kind of support when they could actually contribute. And then get all offended and shit because someone tells them to play ball or they'll get punished. Did you guys think the EU was a business of welfare?

[Slant]

I'd like to drop this here, so some people can learn some humility:



If that doesn't tell you that Poland needs to do more, I don't know what will.

[Acidbaron]

It really just boils down to people screaming "But Germany", doesn't it. There is no economical setback, no cultural setback. The EU economies are all on the upswing, the refugee situation had virtually no impact on our economies. And there's no discernible change in our culture, either. Stop hyperboling.

The irony is, human rights NGO's, human rights lawyers, activists and what not are actually very harsh on Europe and their member states including those that do help. That what they do is not enough that the investigation and interrogation techniques they use are constructed most people fail them, they are not glad about our high rates of sending economic immigrants back to put it nicely.

So that's the reality, at the same time the few far right sheep and parties that try to mobilize these claim that we are taking in everyone and everybody giving them tons of money and housing.


It is downright stupid how this debate evolved. Good thing this is all just a noise and neither said has any real political power.

[Sarevokcz]

Because everyone in the EU needs to share the burden. That's what makes the EU what it is. And the main goal isn't to relief Germany, it's to relief Greece and Italy. Two countries that are struggling with financial problems as it is. There's a limit to how much Germany can shoulder the burden. We've not reached it, yet, when push comes to shove, but it's there. And people need to learn that the EU isn't a cash cow that can be milked for free money. It's a project where everyone chips in. What is so hard to understand about that?

I'll never get how people can be so fucking entitled as to holding out their hand when it's time for money to be spread around but they'll absolutely refuse any kind of support when they could actually contribute. And then get all offended and shit because someone tells them to play ball or they'll get punished. Did you guys think the EU was a business of welfare?

again. Poland DIDNT CAUSE the problem! First, it was Greece, who completely ignored everything about their responsibilities as a shengen country (why they are in shengen is completely different issue), then it was Merkel, who invitied all migrants to Germany, then all the transit countries, who let those illegals, who werent identified, pass through them and the only responsible country, Hungary, was being threatened by EU, while frontex completely failed, being funded by all of EU.

Those countries should have been fined first and foremost. And you cant really enforce solidarity, as that is by definition voluntary, not something you can force through fines, altho its interesting, how EU suddenly is willing to pay for every recieved migrant, too bad they cost alot more than what theyre offering.

Third, you CANNOT claim migrants cause no economical issues and at the same time claim that countires cant take care of them or that Germany cant the the whole load, AFTER inviting them. Either they do cause issues or they dont... and you dont invite people over and then force neighbours to take some in when you realize you dont have the room for all.

And fourth, those migrants DONT WANT TO GO to eastern europe! they wont stay there. Every single migrant from middle east we recieved was gone to germany within a month, they got rent free flats, free education, a monthly cash and job offers and still went away immediately, why the hell should those countries pay for those migrants, when they dont even stay there and became valuable members of the society?

Most of those people arent even from Syria and dont actually have automatic right for asylum in the first place, italy and greece should have been processing them faster and returning them back, not keeping them and trying to shift them to everyone else.

[Deleted]

Because everyone in the EU needs to share the burden. That's what makes the EU what it is. And the main goal isn't to relief Germany, it's to relief Greece and Italy. Two countries that are struggling with financial problems as it is. There's a limit to how much Germany can shoulder the burden. We've not reached it, yet, when push comes to shove, but it's there. And people need to learn that the EU isn't a cash cow that can be milked for free money. It's a project where everyone chips in. What is so hard to understand about that?

I'll never get how people can be so fucking entitled as to holding out their hand when it's time for money to be spread around but they'll absolutely refuse any kind of support when they could actually contribute. And then get all offended and shit because someone tells them to play ball or they'll get punished. Did you guys think the EU was a business of welfare?

lol!! you think the people that are being redistributed stay in the countries they get redistributed to if they dont like the country? in latvia they leave latvia as soon as they can because they want to go to germany or sweden! the system dont work!

[Wikiy]

I overread that one, my bad, funny though that you actually calculated with 15 million.

I didn't, I just said the wrong word. xD Haven't slept a lot these last few days, lol. I did mess something else up, though (when it comes to calculations). I divided the yearly 15 billion from the EU with Poland's 470 billion GDP and somehow read that as 0.3% instead of 3%.

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They're not exactly pulling fines out of thin air. You need to stop with this line of reasoning, it's going nowhere. There's a procedure and there is proper review. And violations of the treaties are given ample time in advance to be rectified.

There's an official mechanism in the EU for fining countries?

[Mayhem]

There's an official mechanism in the EU for fining countries?

Yep, it's brought up infront of the ECJ twice, once for breaching the respective law/treaty the second time for imposing fines.

[Slant]

again. Poland DIDNT CAUSE the problem! First, it was Greece, who completely ignored everything about their responsibilities as a shengen country (why they are in shengen is completely different issue), then it was Merkel, who invitied all migrants to Germany, then all the transit countries, who let those illegals, who werent identified, pass through them and the only responsible country, Hungary, was being threatened by EU, while frontex completely failed, being funded by all of EU.

Those countries should have been fined first and foremost. And you cant really enforce solidarity, as that is by definition voluntary, not something you can force through fines, altho its interesting, how EU suddenly is willing to pay for every recieved migrant, too bad they cost alot more than what theyre offering.

Third, you CANNOT claim migrants cause no economical issues and at the same time claim that countires cant take care of them or that Germany cant the the whole load, AFTER inviting them. Either they do cause issues or they dont... and you dont invite people over and then force neighbours to take some in when you realize you dont have the room for all.

And fourth, those migrants DONT WANT TO GO to eastern europe! they wont stay there. Every single migrant from middle east we recieved was gone to germany within a month, they got rent free flats, free education, a monthly cash and job offers and still went away immediately, why the hell should those countries pay for those migrants, when they dont even stay there and became valuable members of the society?

Most of those people arent even from Syria and dont actually have automatic right for asylum in the first place, italy and greece should have been processing them faster and returning them back, not keeping them and trying to shift them to everyone else.

Nobody said Poland caused this. We're saying Poland should be a part of the solution. Instead, Poland creates a whole new set of problems. Thanks a lot, Poland.

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lol!! you think the people that are being redistributed stay in the countries they get redistributed to if they dont like the country? in latvia they leave latvia as soon as they can because they want to go to germany or sweden! the system dont work!

Yes, and we send them back. Because they are not registered here and get no money from us. That's how it works. Alas, some people are not actually interested in how things work in reality and would rather just puff up and be angry at something.

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There's an official mechanism in the EU for fining countries?

Yeah, no shit, the EU has rules. Astonishing, isn't it?

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/anti...ion/fines.html

[Slant]

But we owe it to them, because Nazi's fought against Poland /s

Well, you didn't. I guess, we should finally do it right. Give us a couple thousand nukes and we'll blow ourselves up and be done with this shitshow of a guilttrip.

(Now, that would be the mother of all ragequits, I admit... :P)

[Freighter]

Latvians go to Germany and Sweden to steal stuff all the time, maybe they learned it from them.

Really now? How can you complain about Daneman and then do the same thing as him but against another group?

[Mehrunes]

Wow, you are obsessed. Do you live in Poland?

Poland would be Putin's within a few years if they didn't have our support.
Not because he would take it, but because they would beg him to take over.

I do, but it has nothing to do with it. If you bothered to read the thread you'd have noticed I am fairly critical of the country. The reason I responded to your shitposts was them being shitposts filled with abject arrogant nation bashing nonsense. Which was clear as day from the context of my responses, so yay for a deflection as shitty as the rest of your bullcrap. Then again no one ever accused you of not being dishonest as fuck. And yay for quietly failing to reply to anything else because it exposed the total bankruptcy of your shitposts like a coward.

And do pray tell why would Poland beg Putin to take over when even post-communists weren't exactly best buds with him or Russia as a whole when they were in power? Even though that was also before Poland was accepted into EU and got its funding? Yet another idiotic nonsense you pulled out of your rectum? Of course it is, because in your nationalistic, xenophobic alt-fact world Poland would somehow collapse without an amount of money that, even with your mathematically challenged numbers, is slightly above 3% of its GDP.

Or would be unable to protect its borders without EU. Because reasons. Never mind that border protection is entirely up to member states. Or that Poland is in NATO, with a US contingent currently stationed there.

Drop the one trillion claim. It's retarded.

Good job aiming that at @Freighter who's from far east Also, given the content of your posts, that remark reeks of pot calling the kettle black. Also, if you weren't ignorant of everything related to the topic, the one trillion claim is the reparations East Germany was supposed to pay Poland adjusted for inflation and the like. And it rests on the illegitimacy of the dropping of the original claim in 1953 since it was forced by USSR.

Given how early 1950s were the height of USSR oppression and yet even in 1968, 15 years later, it invaded a disobedient country from East Block, there are grounds for considering that pressure to be undue influence, making said agreement invalid (then there's the gaps in its the paper trail). Making it legally very not-retarded. Alas, you live in alt-fact world where the west can do no wrong and Eastern Europe apparently is constantly on the bring of collapse. Oh, and they are shooting refugees, probably to cope with that fact.

Now, back to the reparations. The fact that it might be silly to talk about reparations 70 years after a War is a different matter entirely. But Poland doesn't seriously expect Germany to pay that money. They don't even want that. 3/4 of all Poles don't want that. It's political rhetoric. The EU threatened with a bill that was pulled out of their ass, and Poland responded in kind. Sure, Poland needs to be threatened with something, but not a fucking bill out of nowhere.

The bill did not appear out of nowhere. The bill followed months of Poland's government stomping its foot down like a child, European Commission eventually growing tired of their shit, asking the ECJ to start a trial against Poland for breaking EU law, ECJ finding Poland guilty and Poland still refusing to comply.

The treaty said Poland would be financially fined if it backed out?

I'm not arguing the fact that Poland should be somehow threatened/punished for going back on its word/EU responsibilities, I'm saying a fine isn't the way.

Under the circumstances that occurred, a fine is precisely the way as outlined in the main treaties. That Poland took part in negotiating in their current forms and then ratified.

[Noradin]

And it rests on the illegitimacy of the dropping of the original claim in 1953 since it was forced by USSR.

There were many thing forced by the USSR, do you want to turn them all back?

[Mehrunes]

its not Polands fault Merkel and Germany ignored treaties first, while other EU countries let unIDd illegals travel freely through shengen. Will EU fine germany for the economic and cultural setbacks they brought upon EU? no? then they have no right to fine any of the other countries for refusing to partake in it, especially when those migrants dont even want to go there and wouldnt stay there anyway...

Cultural setbacks? Wat? How is a ~million people going to significantly affect EU's culture when most of them are in Germany, a country of over 80 millions?

I'd like to drop this here, so some people can learn some humility:

<Image snip>

If that doesn't tell you that Poland needs to do more, I don't know what will.

The only people who need to learn humility are people like you and @Kangodo who think that being richer makes you or your countries superior. Sorry to break it to you, but the member states don't get extra obligations if they are a net beneficent of the budget. Funny how you throw the treaties at @Wikiy yet pull such nonsense out of your ass to fuel your megalomania.

There were many thing forced by the USSR, do you want to turn them all back?

No? Does the post you just quoted say I want to turn back even this one? Because I recall only talking about the potential validity of these claims. But if nations negatively affected by such pressure want to do so, I don't see a problem in them trying to prove it and get justice.

[Freighter]

They aren't "another group" they are ethnically the same as Danish people, but it's a fact that we have problems with criminals from there.

I can't find anything that supports latvians are the same ethnicity as danes. Care to provide a source?

[Mehrunes]

But we owe it to them, because Nazi's fought against Poland /s

Are Netherlands part of Germany now? Stop piggy-backing off other western countries, this claim is levied against Germany alone. Because war reparations are a thing and Nazis indeed fought against Poland, in a war of aggression they eventually lost. It's only the largest war this war has ever seen.

[Freighter]

Yes.
And want to know why?
Because being richer, etc, is the exact definition of superior.
Superior means you're above average.

Poland: Below average in Europe.
My country: Above average in Europe.

So then my country is superior to yours? You'd have no issue with me saying that, yeah?