WoW has super fun leveling content but Blizzard is not promoting/utilizing it.

[Qnubi]

Whenever I see people complain how boring the leveling in WoW is, I always bring up the point to simply solo or duo Dungeons instead of LFD them. They are actually challenging and decent XP (~350 per mob with Heirlooms at level 15). Just did ragefire chasm with my level 16 Elemental Shammy and it was as fun as I remembered them to be. The bosses all have meaningful mechanics too. For example Slagmaw spits fire on the ground, so right when he finishes the cast you move left/right and not get hit. Simple but rewarding and did not take damage. Dark Shaman Koranthal needs to be interrupted or you get hit with 25-30% HP. He also has a phase where you need to run out of some shadow voids, it actually was FUN to play the dungeon how it was supposed to be. While specific mobs have priority to kill/burst, patrols need to be killed, CC is important as well as interrupts. You may even take different talents depending on what boss/dungeon you fight. Now, granted, Shaman has an easier time than others simply because you can heal yourself. But that's where Blizzard could do a better job. Let's be honest, the dungeons at this point are not meant for 5 players, I would change them all to be 2-3player dungeons (while keeping them as is!) without role restrictions. Kinda like Scenarios. If you hate leveling because it is faceroll I encourage you to solo (or duo, depending on class) them. It is, to some degree, more fun than endgame dungeons.

Thoughts?

[Trapped]

The issue with leveling is that people have been doing it for so many years, they just want to rush to the end game to see the *new* content. Good points though.

[TurnUndead]

When people complain about leveling content, I'm not sure they are talking about dungeon runs as much as questing through zones. Never heard too many complaints about running dungeons to level.

[Qnubi]

I often see people asking for meaningful/challenging leveling content as well, isn't that one of the points people always bring up when asking for legacy servers, too? It doesn't really matter if you go to a zone or a dungeon to level up. The content that's more fun should be the one that you choose. You can have 1 Shot zones and you can have thoughtful/meaningful combat that showcases your talents/skills and thus rewards you by playing smart/good. They can co-exist for both playerbases. My point is, Blizzard is not showing people that they can have this combat in retail right now. It only would need a few tweaks (rewards/XP/scaling) and both parties could have fun content without pouring a lot of manpower into it.

[rda]

Whenever I see people complain how boring the leveling in WoW is, I always bring up the point to simply solo or duo Dungeons instead of LFD them. They are actually challenging and decent XP (~350 per mob with Heirlooms at level 15). Just did ragefire chasm with my level 16 Elemental Shammy and it was as fun as I remembered them to be. The bosses all have meaningful mechanics too. For example Slagmaw spits fire on the ground, so right when he finishes the cast you move left/right and not get hit. Simple but rewarding and did not take damage. Dark Shaman Koranthal needs to be interrupted or you get hit with 25-30% HP. He also has a phase where you need to run out of some shadow voids, it actually was FUN to play the dungeon how it was supposed to be. While specific mobs have priority to kill/burst, patrols need to be killed, CC is important as well as interrupts. You may even take different talents depending on what boss/dungeon you fight. Now, granted, Shaman has an easier time than others simply because you can heal yourself. But that's where Blizzard could do a better job. Let's be honest, the dungeons at this point are not meant for 5 players, I would change them all to be 2-3player dungeons (while keeping them as is!) without role restrictions. Kinda like Scenarios. If you hate leveling because it is faceroll I encourage you to solo (or duo, depending on class) them. It is, to some degree, more fun than endgame dungeons.

Thoughts?

There isn't a lot of fun in that. I did a whole character soloing dungeons (and raids when I could) doing nothing else and there were maybe 5-6 interesting fights in the entire run to max level (the optional boss in Blackfathom Deeps, Rattlegore in Cata's Scholomance, the final guy in Mogushan Palace etc). You either go splat or you are winning so obviously that it is just boring.

The scaling feels very bizarre. The moment you go 61, for example, you can solo all classic raids. Nice, eh? Except Twin Princes in the Temple of Ahn'Qiraj whom you won't outdamage and so you will have to die because the fight won't end otherwise. After you level enough to get past Twin Princes you will get a nice FU from Cthun whom you will have to kill by meleeing through his damage reduction debuff, since you are soloing - prepare for 20-30 minutes of scratching him. WoW raids and instances are filled with this shit. Ie, right after you get past Jaraxxus in ToGC you are stopped hard by the champions who will CC you to the moon and back - without DR - and heal to full while you are busy being feared. It's much much later when you will be able to get past them and all the next bosses will be complete cake.

Long story short: it's only fun if you never tried it before. Once the factor of novelty wears off a bit, there is nothing there. It's extremely unbalanced and mostly very stupid. As I say, there were maaaaaaaybe 5-6 interesting fights in *all* instances up to WoD (I got very bored with this after and stopped).

[Deztru]

All they need to do is remove heirlooms, RaF, LFG, reduce experience gain and increase difficulty.

Which they will never do.

And leveling would be interesting again.

[Narveid]

All they need to do is remove heirlooms, RaF, LFG, reduce experience gain and increase difficulty.

Which they will never do.

And leveling would be interesting again.

Removing things aren't going to make anything more interesting.
"Hey, remember when you could max out your level in 1 week? Yeah, now it takes 5!"
That would make them really unpopular.

[Soon-TM]

All they need to do is remove heirlooms, RaF, LFG, reduce experience gain and increase difficulty.

Which they will never do.

And leveling would be interesting again.

Also, on-rails questing has to DIAF. It feels un-immersive at best and patronizing at worst.

[fooliuscaesar13]

All they need to do is remove heirlooms, RaF, LFG, reduce experience gain and increase difficulty.

Which they will never do.

And leveling would be interesting again.

This, mostly.
I personally don't mind the xp buff at times (or some kind of xp buff, having leveled a crazy amount of alts), but I think they should have made it an on/off switch rather than giving you gear that trivializes content at your current level (heirlooms). The slow power increase as you level up makes the leveling experience (in my opinion) more fun. Sure, there will always be those people that crank out gear via professions every level but in general, I think making the leveling rewards actually worth something makes the leveling experience better.

[Verral]

I do agree that this way of doing dungeons is somewhat fun, I did the same thing on my fresh priest toon a couple weeks ago and enjoyed it!
But man, imagine soloing WC... Or Uldaman... I just don't have enough patience for that

[rda]

I do agree that this way of doing dungeons is somewhat fun, I did the same thing on my fresh priest toon a couple weeks ago and enjoyed it!
But man, imagine soloing WC... Or Uldaman... I just don't have enough patience for that

These are peanuts compared to Blackrock Depths.

[Qnubi]

There isn't a lot of fun in that. I did a whole character soloing dungeons (and raids when I could) doing nothing else and there were maybe 5-6 interesting fights in the entire run to max level (the optional boss in Blackfathom Deeps, Rattlegore in Cata's Scholomance, the final guy in Mogushan Palace etc). You either go splat or you are winning so obviously that it is just boring.

The scaling feels very bizarre. The moment you go 61, for example, you can solo all classic raids. Nice, eh? Except Twin Princes in the Temple of Ahn'Qiraj whom you won't outdamage and so you will have to die because the fight won't end otherwise. After you level enough to get past Twin Princes you will get a nice FU from Cthun whom you will have to kill by meleeing through his damage reduction debuff, since you are soloing - prepare for 20-30 minutes of scratching him. WoW raids and instances are filled with this shit. Ie, right after you get past Jaraxxus in ToGC you are stopped hard by the champions who will CC you to the moon and back - without DR - and heal to full while you are busy being feared. It's much much later when you will be able to get past them and all the next bosses will be complete cake.

Long story short: it's only fun if you never tried it before. Once the factor of novelty wears off a bit, there is nothing there. It's extremely unbalanced and mostly very stupid. As I say, there were maaaaaaaybe 5-6 interesting fights in *all* instances up to WoD (I got very bored with this after and stopped).

I never tried raids because they don't give appropriate XP, all dungeons give good XP so it doesn't feel slow, especially with heirlooms and all of them also have quests. I can imagine that raids are super boring because they have unforgiving mechanics like you mentioned endless stuns/heals. Leveling Dungeons don't have that, but they do have Dmg Spikes that require you to pop CD and utility skills that you NEVER EVER would use with 5 people. Like I have said, at this point they would be better suited as Scenarios for 2-3 people with no particular role specified. You get a glimpse on what your class can do rather than 1 shot everything you look at. That's the point I am trying to bring across. You can't argue away that you will use a rotation and CDs when Solo/duo them. When you go zone by zone at appropriate level you will never finish your rotation or need burst damage, fact!

[Flurryfang]

Whenever I see people complain how boring the leveling in WoW is, I always bring up the point to simply solo or duo Dungeons instead of LFD them. They are actually challenging and decent XP (~350 per mob with Heirlooms at level 15). Just did ragefire chasm with my level 16 Elemental Shammy and it was as fun as I remembered them to be. The bosses all have meaningful mechanics too. For example Slagmaw spits fire on the ground, so right when he finishes the cast you move left/right and not get hit. Simple but rewarding and did not take damage. Dark Shaman Koranthal needs to be interrupted or you get hit with 25-30% HP. He also has a phase where you need to run out of some shadow voids, it actually was FUN to play the dungeon how it was supposed to be. While specific mobs have priority to kill/burst, patrols need to be killed, CC is important as well as interrupts. You may even take different talents depending on what boss/dungeon you fight. Now, granted, Shaman has an easier time than others simply because you can heal yourself. But that's where Blizzard could do a better job. Let's be honest, the dungeons at this point are not meant for 5 players, I would change them all to be 2-3player dungeons (while keeping them as is!) without role restrictions. Kinda like Scenarios. If you hate leveling because it is faceroll I encourage you to solo (or duo, depending on class) them. It is, to some degree, more fun than endgame dungeons.

Thoughts?

Well it is pretty obvious why Blizzard is not promoting this as a way to lvl up a new character, because you are not following the system they have created (dungeons made for 5 people), but i do think that you got a hold of a good base idea.

I actually enjoy the 15-40 lvl dungeons, because most of the bosses actually have fun abilities and when they are hard, those also become challenging. Fun and challenging is really what i am seeking in this game and sometimes i am lucky enough to experience that, through playing with very new/bad players

A little bit off topic: I think that Blizzard have alot of great content in their leveling experience, that they are currently ignoring or hiding away for no apperant reason. i think that if they really took their time and dedicated a patch or part of an expansion to improve some core concepts of the leveling experience and make it more inviting, they could create alot of content for alot of players to play through.

[endersblade]

For everything pre Cata, I could definitely see turning them into the scenario setup you mention. That would be really neat! But Cata and above, I can't tell you how many 5-mans I have been through where we actually wiped. WIPED. That's depressing. 5-man leveling content has been castrated, the exp has been nerfed, the mobs are pushovers, and people STILL wipe on them.

[Flurryfang]

All they need to do is remove heirlooms, RaF, LFG, reduce experience gain and increase difficulty.

Which they will never do.

And leveling would be interesting again.

Yeah no, that is not gonna make anything more interesting. You can pretty much do this now with the Ironman challenge and most people will not find it more interesting.

There are no simply solutions to making leveling really good, there are only many things that can help improve it overall.

[unbound]

I always bring up the point to simply solo or duo Dungeons...

...it actually was FUN to play the dungeon how it was supposed to be.

lol

That isn't how it was supposed to be.

While I'm glad you found a way to be more entertained by your leveling, it is, in reality, a rather boring effort. Much of this stems from the fact that if you actually play the game how it was supposed to be (questing and 5 man dungeons), you outlevel the content far too quickly. Furthermore, you are playing an MMO...but you wouldn't know that for most of your leveling experience. Leveling in WoW today feels a lot more like playing GW I where you only see people in the cities than when leveling was actually interesting, fun, and challenging.

[Qnubi]

lol

That isn't how it was supposed to be.

While I'm glad you found a way to be more entertained by your leveling, it is, in reality, a rather boring effort. Much of this stems from the fact that if you actually play the game how it was supposed to be (questing and 5 man dungeons), you outlevel the content far too quickly. Furthermore, you are playing an MMO...but you wouldn't know that for most of your leveling experience. Leveling in WoW today feels a lot more like playing GW I where you only see people in the cities than when leveling was actually interesting, fun, and challenging.

You didn't see the context and didn't get the point I was making in the parts you quoted. The fun part is that you play with the mechanics to not die. Like they are supposed to work. Run out of the bad stuff, interrupt etc. That's how it is supposed to work. If you are alone or with 5 doesn't matter. I had to heal myself (being the healer), I had to tank (being the tank) and I had to Dmg the boss (being the DD) and all 3 parts were crucial for the combat. If I didn't heal I would have died, if I didn't dodge mechanic X I would have died etc. That's how it's supposed to be. The quantity of people is irrelevant as long as I fulfill those 3 roles. That's the point, that's how it's supposed to be in a game with Trinity.

[Teri]

Well, dunno if anyone else noticed 7.3, but a lot of low-level loot from dungeons and also noticed BoE drops and quest rewards are being made ready for some future update.

Stats on many items got changed to use the Legion stat-system:
- Capes with str/int/agi
- Rings/necks with stamina+secondaries.
- Plate armor with int/str, or leather+mail with agi/int.
- Some items changed to epic (hand of justice 16 agi/str 16 crit)
- Many new items were added to vanilla dungeon loot tables. (still a whole lot of "rename me" items out there, so they probably are not done yet)

Items are certainly being "modernized" for something.

It hasn't happened for 100% of the items yet but it seems this is the first step to a new itemlevel revamp or scaling for 8.0.

Also personal boss loot depending on loot spec in vanilla dungeons.

Overall solo-dungeon leveling should yield more useable loot, even if you did it without heirlooms.

[Qnubi]

I am sure they are working on scaling Dungeons/Zones for a future Expansion, if it will be the next one I can't tell/know but that's the next logical step from Legion onward. The technology works pretty well imo and just needs some tweaking to work for all zones/dungeons/raids and maybe that will revitalize content for every kind of gamer. Casual, normal and hardcore gamers alike. I don't even need better rewards for more challenging combat across the leveling/endgame. The reward to me, has always been about having fun with the mechanics and gameplay and overcoming a challenge. No matter if its with level 10 or with level 110.

[Tiwack]

RFC is tuned for 5 ppl with maybe 10 greens between them. Of course you can solo it in heirlooms at the appropriate level with a class that can self heal if you want that challenge. It is a far cry from the entry dungeon it used to be for that kind of content.