Do you think the Vindicar is a tech demo for ships next expansion.

[SammyCat203]

In the speculated south seas expansion and the speculated customizable ships, do you think that the ships will work like the vindicar?

Right now, the vindicar is always shown to be in the zone you are in while on the map there is an outline where it would be if you were in different zones.
With ships, i feel that it will be very similar with the ship always being at the dock closest to you with an outline at all the docks it could possibly be at.

I assume if it worked this way it would just allow you to fast travel between docks and not really be driveable or even have a "moving between location" animation like flightmasters.

The changing textures and weapons are also features that i would imagine our ships having.

What do you think that will be? Teleport like the vindicar? Travel around like flight paths? Be drivable with full control? Or not even exist?

[Morgaith]

In lore it's a ship, in game it's a nonmoving quest hub (house w/e you want to call it)

[Teri]

Before Argus was out, I already had the idea of having our ship docked at the area of multiple Island zones.

This way they can move away from a continent without being all portals like cataclysm.

System can also work for future space worlds. (Ethereals/void got a nice re-introduction in Mac'aree after a 10 year gap since TBC)

Nothing says they can't make the world map consist of 5 islands with similar travel hubs like Argus. Could even add activities and scenarios/quests when "sailing" between areas, even if it's 1 time/daily/weekly stuff.

I would love to go back to simpler days without being the hero of a superpower class hall decked in legendaries and artifacts, and have simple pirates be somewhat menacing at least at the start of the expansion. After all when leveling Legion we weren't the superheroes yet and had to be tested and push back the nightmare/felskorn etc with help of our faction or neutral druids/heroes and such.

Ship could still very well be our personal base of operations, even customizable and such, right now having to gather followers from 2 zones + class hall trainers feels a bit clunky, but I suppose they stack to 2+5 for a reason.

[rhorle]

Right now, the vindicar is always shown to be in the zone you are in while on the map there is an outline where it would be if you were in different zones.

I don't think it is. The ship on Argus is actually 3 different ships. It might be a test for future ship based hubs but nothing for a customized garrison 3.0. It works for an area like Argus where the 3 zones are not connected. Zones for an expansion don't work that well when fragmented like that. They work better when they are all connected with borders that you can cross with out special transportation.

Even if there were teleports I don't think it would work out that well. That was one of the large problems with Cataclysm in my opinion. The zones were all over the game world rather then together as a continent/area. Would legion be as fun if you had to use teleports/loading to cross zones? Flying would lose some convenience for travel across the world.

[hyphnos]

I don't think it is. The ship on Argus is actually 3 different ships. It might be a test for future ship based hubs but nothing for a customized garrison 3.0. It works for an area like Argus where the 3 zones are not connected. Zones for an expansion don't work that well when fragmented like that. They work better when they are all connected with borders that you can cross with out special transportation.

Even if there were teleports I don't think it would work out that well. That was one of the large problems with Cataclysm in my opinion. The zones were all over the game world rather then together as a continent/area. Would legion be as fun if you had to use teleports/loading to cross zones? Flying would lose some convenience for travel across the world.

I'd rather have 5 second load screen than a 3 minute flight point, so no, legion would not be less fun with teleports. The entire game wastes way too much time on transit.

Also how were the cataclysm zones a "problem". If I am in stormheim and you're in Aszuna, how is that any different than someone being in Twilight Highlands or Hyjal. You can meet up just as fast by hearthing to the main city of the expansion. The fact of the matter is it's almost always faster for two players to meet up by at least one hearthing to a central location to get to the other unless they are in the same zone to start with.

OT: If the ships are anything, they are a prelude to teleports replacing FPs. This will only happen if the cost savings is greater than the value of the player hours wasted on travel, so we'll have to see how it plays out. The obviously can keep a lot of the time waste in as they do now with a 15 second run across the Vindicar every time you go back to get to the quest people and console. I suppose once you're past those initial quests that's less of an issue but it's still 15 seconds here and there times millions of players which doesn't add up to nothing.

[Wyrt]

If I recall correctly the devs. didn't like that all the Cata zones were disconnected from each other. Wouldn't expect to see something like that again outside of patch content like Argus.

[rhorle]

Also how were the cataclysm zones a "problem". If I am in stormheim and you're in Aszuna, how is that any different than someone being in Twilight Highlands or Hyjal. You can meet up just as fast by hearthing to the main city of the expansion. The fact of the matter is it's almost always faster for two players to meet up by at least one hearthing to a central location to get to the other unless they are in the same zone to start with.

And if you want to go do something in another zone you would have to hearth to the main hub for the portals or take a flight path etc. Look at how world quests are spread out in Legion. Imagine if to do the Warden emissary you would have to hearth back to Dalaran and take a portal to the zone each time you wanted to do a Warden world quest in a different zone.

How much more annoying would the process to unlock Kosumoth be if the zones were scattered around EK and Kalimdor? You can't have the geography of Highmountain flow into Stormheim. In order to change from Stormheim to Highmountain you would need to go to the teleporter. Teleporter to the nearest hub then go to your destination. There are lot of problems with non-connected zones.

[Halicia]

I think its just a quest hub... and as such, not a gimmick they're likely to reuse in a major way.

As much as I'd love to see some player or guild - owned ships in the future, I don't think this is the sort of tech that suggests they intend to make use of it in the future... at least not in such a transparent manner.

[mingarrubia]

oh God please no more loading screens

[Nihilan]

Spaaaace Garrisons.

Please dont do this Blizzard.

[WolfRider]

I speculated this in my thread ( http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...on-Expansion-8 ) :

New feature: personal Battleship
- the Battleship is an instantiated area for you and your group. Only the Battleship's owner can give orders to NPCs. The Battleship sails to the location's coast if the main questline is not completed, or in the island's harbor if you finished the main quest.
- to upgrade or customize your BS, you'll need to gather theses resources: Kaja'mite, Gas, Oil and wood. Kaja'mite can be found in Kezan, Wood can be found on Tel'Abim, Oil can be found on Gillijim and Gas can be found on Kul Tiras. You can also find these resources on the Venturo Co. NPCs, so Balor isle will be an important location. Be careful, the other faction will try to collect the resources there too.
- you can upgrade your BS from level 1 to level [X], changing the size of your ship. This cost a lot of the 4 resources and only in your faction harbor (Undermine or Boralus)
- you can customize your BS with better shields, canons, heliport, submarine launchers, torpedos and a lot of other items. You can buy these customizations in the different harbors around the Archipelago. A customization cost gold and is available on the island's reputation. You need to be in a harbor to build the customization and it costs resources. You can repair a customization with resources.
- you can hire up to [X] members in your BS crew. Sail to the islands harbors and buy a contract.
there are 5 kind of members:
- Engineers : they repair the shield of your Battleship and your arsenal.
- Pilots : they pilot the Helicopter gunships and the submarines
- Sailors : they use the canons and the torpedos launchers
- Gatherers: they can be sent on mission to gather resources
- Filibusters: they aboard the enemy's ship and fight the opposite crew
- On the Archipelago map, you will see enemies' fleet: Bloodsail Buccaneers, Venture Co., Nagas and hostile Zandalar. You'll have to sail to the attacked Island and launch the scenario by talking to your second in command. The scenario engages you in combat against the opponent's ship (or fleet if you're grouped). The objective is to sink your enemy fleet before he destroys your BattleShip. You can pilot a helicopter or a submarine, you can use a grappling iron to aboard. Once the scenario starts, your Crew will attack the enemy's fleet, damaging its shield. The more your BS is upgraded and customized, the faster the shield is damaged. You can't only count on your crew to win, the enemy's crew will damage your shield and aboard your BS. Defend or Attack, it's your choice!
When you're grouped, you'll see your allies' ships, you can defend them from the enemy's crew. The number of your enemy's ships depends on how many players are in the group. Always equal.

If you win the Naval battle, you'll earn crew experience, resources, gold, reputation from the defended island and equipment for your character. The amount and the value of the equipment depends on the time spent and the average of the BS shield's health.
If you lose, you'll have to repair the BS in the island's harbor, costing you resources.
The more your crew is experienced, the harder the Naval battles and bigger the rewards will be!

New faction hubs:
When you start the first quest leading to the Archipelago, both factions will have to do a scenario:
- Undermine takeover: Trade Prince Gallywix sends you to take the city back from the Venture Co. Kill the Nagas on the Shore, chase the hostile Zandalar from the mine, the Bloodsail Buccaneers from the city and the Venture Co. from the Trade Prince's mansion and take back the Blidgewater Port.
- Defense of Boralus: Secure the Kul Tiras capital from the Bloodsail Buccaneers at the harbor, push back the Scourge at the City's gate and kill the Nagas assaulting the streets and the Keep.

Once the scenario are completed, each faction will access to the harbor, the Inn, the city's stores and the Headquarter where the faction leaders will stand to work on the strategies.
This will bring some weekly features:
- exclusive Battleship customizations and crew members: an emissary of Archipelago will settle in the Harbor, providing exclusive Battleship customizations and crew members in exchange of resources (and your reputation's level)
- dungeons' missions: three emissaries will stand in the Headquarter, sending you to dungeons related to their reputations, rewarding you with reputation, stuff and resources.


PVP Battleground: Balor's coasts
Similar to the Naval Battle's scenarios, this BG will bring you to the Balor's coasts, where Alliance and Hord are fighting on the sea with their greatest battleships. This is a 30 vs 30 players, with a high tactical gameplay: use the Helicopter gunships, the submarines, your grappling irons to assault the enemy's Battleship and sink it with explosives once its shield is down! Like in the Scenario, Vehicles have a shield (when it hits 0 the vehicle explodes) and fuel (the vehicle stops and fall/sink if it hits 0).

[A dot Ham]

In lore it's a ship, in game it's a nonmoving quest hub (house w/e you want to call it)

You understood him... no need to be pedantic.

[spleen1015]

I dunno about that but I do know this. We have teleporters now. No reason for there to be flight paths in any future content. Teleporters are part of the lore now.

[hyphnos]

And if you want to go do something in another zone you would have to hearth to the main hub for the portals or take a flight path etc. Look at how world quests are spread out in Legion. Imagine if to do the Warden emissary you would have to hearth back to Dalaran and take a portal to the zone each time you wanted to do a Warden world quest in a different zone.

How much more annoying would the process to unlock Kosumoth be if the zones were scattered around EK and Kalimdor? You can't have the geography of Highmountain flow into Stormheim. In order to change from Stormheim to Highmountain you would need to go to the teleporter. Teleporter to the nearest hub then go to your destination. There are lot of problems with non-connected zones.

Have you actually DONE world quests in legion? Because I'd say over half the time it is just as fast to hearth to dalaran to go a quest in a different zone as to take a flight point between zones unless the quest you're doing is just across the border in an adjacent zone. And no, I don't think hearthing somewhere and taking a portal in 30 seconds is less convenient than 3-5 minutes on flight points.

The "unconnected zones" in cataclysm were in fact connected by a big pile of portals one beside the other (not to mention tol barad portal and portal tabard). The zones being apart made ZERO difference because there was a central hub that got you to all the zones that was readily accessible. It was at the time certainly faster to go from Hyjal to Uldam or Deepholm or Twilight Highlands than it would have been to go two zones over from any of the other two.

This is all a psychological problem you have in thinking you need to fly from one zone to an adjacent zone. If the zones were all linked by a central portal network, you'd do just what you do now - do your shit in one zone, then take the fastest route to the next one, which is not guaranteed to be adjacent and more than 3/4 of the time is not. So what do you do, hearth to dalaran and take a shorter route. The fact that zones are adjacent doesn't mean necessarily that on a given day you will be wanting to do things in two adjacent zones and not say 2 quests in Aszuna and 2 in stormheim or highmountain.

A viable teleport system that let you move from any teleport hub/flight point to another (like it should be) would make it a non-issue, they could scatter the zones however they wanted and it wouldn't matter. As it was at the start of Legion it was 99% do a quest, whistle, take FP to next area, do quest whistle. Every whistle was a fucking load screen so I don't see what you're on about. We've had flight that let us move between zones easily for a tiny fraction of the expac, otherwise we were simply utilizing an elaborate shitty version of portals with a shit ton of load screens and a lot of time wasted on flight points.

[TheFirstOnes]

Uh....


Ye. I hope so.

[Netherspark]

I feel there wouldn't be much point in a ship that only pretends to move.

It's possible Blizzard will implement something similar though, but I also think they'd do it poorly.

[rhorle]

Have you actually DONE world quests in legion? Because I'd say over half the time it is just as fast to hearth to dalaran to go a quest in a different zone as to take a flight point between zones unless the quest you're doing is just across the border in an adjacent zone. And no, I don't think hearthing somewhere and taking a portal in 30 seconds is less convenient than 3-5 minutes on flight points.

It isn't just about flight paths though. If zones are not connected and only connected through border you can't take a flight path. It is not just as fast to hearth to dalaran then it is to take a flight master from Val'sharath to Stormheim. Or fly there now that flying is enabled. Something you can't do if the zones are set up like Argus and Cataclysm. Hearth is not always available because you can complete world quests faster then its cool down.

The zones being apart made ZERO difference because there was a central hub that got you to all the zones that was readily accessible.

With a hearth stone unless you were a mage. You keep claiming zero difference but I don't think you know what zero difference means. You couldn't walk from one new expansion zone to the other. You couldn't have multi-zone quest chains with a good flow. World Quests wouldn't work when you have to go half way across the world for emissaries or multi-zone WQ. Even with a central hub which was Stormwind. Not all portals worked both ways so if you wanted to return to a new zone you had to burn you hearthstone cool down.

It was at the time certainly faster to go from Hyjal to Uldam or Deepholm or Twilight Highlands than it would have been to go two zones over from any of the other two.

Well duh. Of course portals and hearth is quicker to move between zones that are spread out and not connected.

This is all a psychological problem you have in thinking you need to fly from one zone to an adjacent zone.

What if I want to ride a ground mount? Look at how Valley of the Four winds used the terrain and zone connections to mesh with Karasang wilds. You couldn't have ropes hanging down to climb. Water falls. Quest flowing from Valley to Karasang. It isn't about flying so I don't know where you got stuck on that.

If the zones were all linked by a central portal network, you'd do just what you do now - do your shit in one zone, then take the fastest route to the next one, which is not guaranteed to be adjacent and more than 3/4 of the time is not.

You literally can't do what you do now if the zones were only connected by portals. Literally

We've had flight that let us move between zones easily for a tiny fraction of the expac, otherwise we were simply utilizing an elaborate shitty version of portals with a shit ton of load screens and a lot of time wasted on flight points.

You could move between zones before Pathfinder. Moving between zones has been in Legion since launch. What drug are you taking that you think otherwise?

[Deleted]

If the ships are introduced to the game I can't imagine it being a sea ship. Lol.

We have Fel Hammer (DH's) with super weaponry.
We have DK flying Ebon Hold fortress.
We have space-goat ship.

And then you would like me, a super hero who defeated and imprisoned Sargeras sail a fkin sea ship ?
Like... you can teleport on Argus from a SPACESHIP
and you want me to...
fucking...
swim?...

Or even worse, instead of sci-fi ship we get a flying helicopter-like ship like Varians or Sylvanas baloon. LOL.

[Klingers]

I think this is a very good question you're asking that I hadn't thought about, and yeah... Might be.

I'd be a little sad if true though because in the back of my mind I was still kind of hoping for an Assassin's Creed IV-style ship we could sail around seas of the new continental area like a floating garrison. I might have been dreaming too big.

[Deleted]

In modern day business everything is sort of a "tech demo"... if you didn't jump on the ship yet, then you still will.

And blizzard has done that long ago.

If the ships are introduced to the game I can't imagine it being a sea ship. Lol.

We have Fel Hammer (DH's) with super weaponry.
We have DK flying Ebon Hold fortress.
We have space-goat ship.

And then you would like me, a super hero who defeated and imprisoned Sargeras sail a fkin sea ship ?
Like... you can teleport on Argus from a SPACESHIP
and you want me to...
fucking...
swim?...

Or even worse, instead of sci-fi ship we get a flying helicopter-like ship like Varians or Sylvanas baloon. LOL.

The fel hammer is for some reason stuck on that husk of a planet.
The DK flying fortress seems rather inefficient (it didn't work for the scourge in the 3rd war and WotLK; why would it work for us)
The space-goat ship is most probably staying on Argus.

So albeit there is this weaponry... it is either sub-par or just our of reach.