Time for a level squish

[videotape]

In my opinion, there are too many goddamn levels. The delta between 100 and 110, or 110 and 120, starts to feel kind of meaningless. Also it's no secret that the leveling grind feels a tad excessive to most players at this point.

Given the likelihood of level scaling tech spreading throughout existing pre-Legion content, thus obviating the need to have enough levels to reasonably cover available content, doesn't it seem like it's about time for a level squish in WoW? Freshen things up a bit, ya know?

I would personally like to see max level squished to 20 at the end of Legion and have 8.0 cover levels 20-30. But I have no idea what I'm doing, so what do you think?

[Echocho]

This is a really good idea

[Marmot]

Level has always just been a number, get over it.

[cuafpr]

no, just no... stop with the squishing of stats / levels/ and forced world scaling.. uhg.

[Deleted]

Also it's no secret that the leveling grind feels a tad excessive to most players at this point.

What leveling grind? They make it faster and faster with each expansion, through heirlooms and changing how much experience you get and how much you need. Level 100 to 110 is superfast, so are the 100 levels before that. I mean that is exactly the reason why they make it so fast, because they keep adding on more and more levels. Having a level squish would be a catastrophe. It would be like the work you put in didn't matter and you have to start over. If they squish us to level 60 and then tell us, here new expansion, level to 70, people would be like, uhm, we did that in TBC. Are you kidding us?

[Feali]

It's just a number.

[jackofwind]

It's just a number.

If it's just a number then it shouldn't matter either way, correct?

[Dracullus]

Yes, it could be great, especially with level scalling. I think old world should have 1-50, and 8.0 50-60. They will do stat squish and item level number squish (so we won't go over 1000), so why not this.

[Kelathos]

Just extend the level boost to all new characters. Always start players in the latest expansion.

[Lord Pebbleton]

It's true that it's just a number, but keep in mind it is such for just the people who play.
If you were to recommend a game to a friend, and you tell them that the real fun starts at 110... good luck trying to convince them further.
Numbers can be deceiving. The road from 1 to 110 today is faster than 1-60 in vanilla. But people who don't play won't know and will give up before trying, because 110 on paper is such a staggering number.
It could be easily adjusted to fall below the 100 mark.
I vote for 1-40 in the old world, and 5 levels for each past expansion. Make it 10 levels for the new ones.

[Feali]

If it's just a number then it shouldn't matter either way, correct?

I really don't care.

[MechaCThun]

Personally I've always felt the max level should have been 120. That's double the amount from which we began our adventures in Azeroth.

This is assuming the next expansion is the LAST expansion and it's 10 levels.

Or they can do 2 more expansions, each 5 levels more. Either way, for some reason, 120 is a solid number for me.

As for reasons for a level squish, I see no reason for that because the issue of massive, inflated numbers doesn't come from your level. Sure your level increases your STATS as you level up.

So that means you need to squish the STATS.

[jackofwind]

Just remove max level imo, and replace the AP grind with a never-ending but brutally scaling EXP grind with a relative power increase to additional Concordance ranks.

High level characters will be special snowflakes because people will ooh and aah over their level (presumably, according to them), and people will generally have a never-ending goal to work towards the way Blizzard wants them to.

[Deleted]

It's just a number.

If it's just a number then it shouldn't matter either way, correct?

How would you even do it? Say you have a level 60 and a level 110 character, and the next expansion squishes it to level 60, what would your characters be? Both level 60? That just highlights that all the effort you've put into the level 110 character past level 60 was for nothing. It's like 50 levels are being taken away from you. You might as well have stopped at level 60. If you wanna make it less painful to level, this isn't the way to do it. You're just punishing people who have put in the effort.

So what I would say is that it actually isn't just a number. That's the point. It's more than just a number. It's the effort you put into it.

[videotape]

Just remove max level imo, and replace the AP grind with a never-ending but brutally scaling EXP grind with a relative power increase to additional Concordance ranks.

High level characters will be special snowflakes because people will ooh and aah over their level (presumably, according to them), and people will generally have a never-ending goal to work towards the way Blizzard wants them to.

I like that, but it would never happen. Infinitely scaling goals have to have a kill-switch so Blizzard can occasionally move the goalposts and make casuals (like me) feel like we have a chance at participating in meaningful gameplay. AP works in that regard because in a few months it will be worth nothing.

- - - Updated - - -

How would you even do it? Say you have a level 60 and a level 110 character, and the next expansion squishes it to level 60, what would your characters be? Both level 60? That just highlights that all the effort you've put into the level 110 character past level 60 was for nothing. It's like 50 levels are being taken away from you. You might as well have stopped at level 60. If you wanna make it less painful to level, this isn't the way to do it. You're just punishing people who have put in the effort.

So what I would say is that it actually isn't just a number. That's the point. It's more than just a number. It's the effort you put into it.

I don't think it's a technical challenge at all. If you have a 60 and a 110, and 110 gets scaled down to, say, 55 (for an 8.0 max of 60), your scaling factor is quite trivially 1/2. So the level 60 becomes level 30.

The effort you put in got you halfway to cap, whatever that cap is.

It may be true though, as you suggest, that people would feel bad about this. I guess my argument is that the status quo also feels bad.

[shaunika123]

no, just no... stop with the squishing of stats / levels/ and forced world scaling.. uhg.

what's wrong with world scaling? i think it's one of the best features of legion

[jackofwind]

How would you even do it? Say you have a level 60 and a level 110 character, and the next expansion squishes it to level 60, what would your characters be? Both level 60? That just highlights that all the effort you've put into the level 110 character past level 60 was for nothing. It's like 50 levels are being taken away from you. You might as well have stopped at level 60. If you wanna make it less painful to level, this isn't the way to do it. You're just punishing people who have put in the effort.

So what I would say is that it actually isn't just a number. That's the point. It's more than just a number. It's the effort you put into it.

Read my next comment. I think the best thing Blizzard could do is scrap the concept of a max level completely.

[Gravity2015]

meh, hopefully not until maintenance mode in 2027

[vbnm247]

We should never have levelled beyond 60.

Hear me out.

When burning crusade released, we should have been leveling Fel Resistance. 10 levels of resistance (which is equal to 60 to70 levels).

What is the point you ask? Well it meant that when WOTLK comes out, you jump into that expansion at level 60 too but level frost resistance. Each level of Frost resistance also gives 1 level of fel resistance for BC.

This means someone coming to wow during WOTLK just had to level to 60 then they could jump into northrend instead of having to also level through BC.

Same again with Cata, you jump in Cata at level 60 leveling Horde/Alliance ranks, each rank also provides 2 levels of frost and fel resistance.

Same again with MOP, you can jump into the expansion at 60, leveling sha resistance, each level gives 1 level of rank and 2 levels of frost and fel.

This means someone starting during MOP just had to level to 60, could jump right into MOP content after which they could still explore and enjoy BC, WOTLK and Cata

Another advantage is that a lot more world content remains viable. So during MOP older raids from Vanilla, BC and WOTLK would have still posed a challenge and couldn't be solo'd. Great for casual guilds and pugs looking for mounts, pets or certain types of gear.

This not perfect but I think it would have made for interesting expansions without completely making older content obsolete.

Just my 2 cents which is not worth much.

[jackofwind]

I like that, but it would never happen. Infinitely scaling goals have to have a kill-switch so Blizzard can occasionally move the goalposts and make casuals (like me) feel like we have a chance at participating in meaningful gameplay. AP works in that regard because in a few months it will be worth nothing.

That's a valid argument. With Blizzard's world-scaling tech etc I feel like we could have story-driven expansions with completion requirements that wouldn't interfere with the infinitely-scaling level concept. They would just need to embrace the idea of shifting expansion storylines from being a levelling-based experience to being a rewards-based experience (in the vein of a better developed Suramar concept perhaps).

I agree that it's unlikely Blizzard would ever do such a thing, because they value the gear-treadmill reset button far too much, but I do believe it would be the best thing for the game.