Australia's PM slaps down call for sugar tax as obesity levels reach 'crisis point'

[Xar226]

We can either move forward on the obesity crisis or we can not. Simple choice.

Assuming it is not a false choice.

Is there any evidence that a soda tax actually curbs soda consumption (much less overall sugar consumption)? Or does it just hurt people, disproportionately poorer people who can least afford more tax, by sucking more money out of their wallets and potentially causing them to cut back in other areas -- like perhaps their fruits and vegetables?

That's an honest question. I haven't looked for any research about whether or not it has any positive effect. I'm merely pointing out that the act of creating an economic disincentive does not necessarily get you the results you hope for.

[Tiwack]

Nothing beats good education on how your body works. Be careful it doesn't all end up being about sports though..

[ledger]

For people who think this will cause foods to be bland though; a lot of foods these days are full of sugar when they don't have to be because they rely on dated knowledge that fat is worse than sugar. "Weight Watchers" is hilarious and frightening at the same time when it is being advertised as such because that product is absolutely jam-packed with sugar, apparently reducing fat makes a product "healthy". People still think fat is the big bad wolf, but compared to sugar it is so insanely insignificant. Hopefully with a sugar tax a lot of these products would make the switch from sugar to fats.

Norway has had a sugar tax for a long time now, probably came in to effect before I was born. I was really surprised when I moved to Australia to see how many products down here are being advertised as "Up to X% reduced fat!", and then having their contents replaced with sugar instead. Sugar tax might not stop people from buying lollies, but it will stop a lot of products replacing fats with sugar.

Some of you guys think losing weight is easy, I assume you have never been in the situation where you have to. It is a lot of work, and it is extremely easy to fail at. When every product on the shelf contains absurd amounts of sugar, it doesn't really help people who try to keep their daily calorie intake on the low. I love to eat lollies, I used to be fat, but now I can control myself and go to the gym regularly and eat much more healthy. I too get that "Don't tax what I love just because some people can't control themselves!", but really it is so hard to control oneself and thinking like that is extremely egotistical. A sugar tax will be for the better even though it will "sting" a little for some to begin with.

[Kathandira]

All that'd do is make poor people poorer. People would still buy the same stuff, maybe just in a cheaper brand name.

I don't know. Water is a lot cheaper than Soda. Basically free really.

[Afrospinach]

I think one good place to start though could be culture; get them in grade school. Maybe more funding for middle and high school health class than football and arts programs?

It is not culture though. Sugar is fundamentally satisfying, that is why it is put in food. It is a bit like trying to convince people not to enjoy orgasms or something. No one has to tell you it is good. It is like my sister who has spent a lifetime trying to convince everyone she prefers skimmed milk. I still don't believe it, especially since you can show the body's reaction to fat on a brain scan.

Nothing beats good education on how your body works. Be careful it doesn't all end up being about sports though..

Well considering endurance athletes have a >60% lower chance of getting type 2 diabetes(diet be damned) I would say making it all about sports is probably one of your best bets.

[Sesshou]

What's this guy doing? We really need some better leadership in Australia. This is unacceptable. We can either move forward on the obesity crisis or we can not. Simple choice.

Taxing everyone because some people have no self control is not the solution.

[Noomz]

http://www.9news.com.au/national/201...ia-soft-drinks



What's this guy doing? We really need some better leadership in Australia. This is unacceptable. We can either move forward on the obesity crisis or we can not. Simple choice.

I don't expect Americans to understand this. You'll get lots of people who only see the word "tax" and they'll say how Australians are being oppressed.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I find it hilarious that you can square a statement like "people aren't going to like it" in a democratic government. That makes no fucking sense.

Yeah people don't always have to like things, it's hilarious that you think the world works from a perspective you do.

[AcidicSyn]

HAHA, funny because that is exactly what I had in mind.


I also think as a smoker you have a pretty good perspective.

Hehe, and ty. I figure I can really only base things off my own experiences; myself and the majority of every other smoker/former smoker that I know started in that age group, so I figure a sort of "cut the head off the snake" kind of approach. A quick hat tip here to the more recent string of anti-smoking commercials; these used to be damn right comical focusing almost entirely on that "cool kid peer pressure" angle. Find me one teenager who doesn't see that kind of ad and instantly roll their eyes, as if their iron wills could ever possibly falter, I mean c'mon; they're the smartest people ever. /s

These new ads though? the ones where the girl is peeling off parts of her face in the restroom or the dude has to pull out teeth to pay the cashier for his pack? MUCH better approach in my opinion; it empowers the teens with data and encourages them to make informed decisions for themselves. In my (quite limited) experience, teenagers tend to care a whole lot more about conclusions they arrive at (or at least think they arrive at) on their own as opposed to being told by adults.

It's also increasingly more difficult to even be a smoker these days. I recall when I was a child; when we'd go out to eat as a family. The end of the meal was the part I dreaded the most; I'd have to sit there bored out of my mind while my parents had their after dinner smoke in <insert smoking section wherever here>. Compare to now; pull out a smoke in the parking lot people look at you like you're murdering kittens. Hell, been to Disney lately? I laugh every time I see the smokers on their "walk of shame" down the designated smokers walkway treking the length of the splash mountain queue to some far off alcove where one of like 2 total ash trays in the park are. At least until security comes over and reminds me that I have to go with them to vape too....then I'm sad again.

A final point? Vaping is even helping kick nicotine addiction as well! Oh how wonderful it is to be able to control the nicotine content in the vape juice! I say again; WONDERFUL! I went from 2-4 packs (depending on work) a day to vaping at 12mg nic level. Now I'm at 1.5mg nic level and the best part? Every time I'd quit before (patch, spray, gum, whatever) I'd gain 30+ flipping pounds, but being able to gradually reduce the nic levels while still "smoking" resulted in no weight gain at all.

so my smoking rant aside; I wonder if a sort of similar concept could even be applied to things like sugar and junk food. Probably not, but then again I do know a handful of nieces and nephews who gagged and swore off hotdogs once they found out what they were made of. Of course now they eat gallons of hummus each month....but at least they make it themselves; progress?

[Doctor Amadeus]

Hehe, and ty. I figure I can really only base things off my own experiences; myself and the majority of every other smoker/former smoker that I know started in that age group, so I figure a sort of "cut the head off the snake" kind of approach. A quick hat tip here to the more recent string of anti-smoking commercials; these used to be damn right comical focusing almost entirely on that "cool kid peer pressure" angle. Find me one teenager who doesn't see that kind of ad and instantly roll their eyes, as if their iron wills could ever possibly falter, I mean c'mon; they're the smartest people ever. /s

These new ads though? the ones where the girl is peeling off parts of her face in the restroom or the dude has to pull out teeth to pay the cashier for his pack? MUCH better approach in my opinion; it empowers the teens with data and encourages them to make informed decisions for themselves. In my (quite limited) experience, teenagers tend to care a whole lot more about conclusions they arrive at (or at least think they arrive at) on their own as opposed to being told by adults.

It's also increasingly more difficult to even be a smoker these days. I recall when I was a child; when we'd go out to eat as a family. The end of the meal was the part I dreaded the most; I'd have to sit there bored out of my mind while my parents had their after dinner smoke in <insert smoking section wherever here>. Compare to now; pull out a smoke in the parking lot people look at you like you're murdering kittens. Hell, been to Disney lately? I laugh every time I see the smokers on their "walk of shame" down the designated smokers walkway treking the length of the splash mountain queue to some far off alcove where one of like 2 total ash trays in the park are. At least until security comes over and reminds me that I have to go with them to vape too....then I'm sad again.

A final point? Vaping is even helping kick nicotine addiction as well! Oh how wonderful it is to be able to control the nicotine content in the vape juice! I say again; WONDERFUL! I went from 2-4 packs (depending on work) a day to vaping at 12mg nic level. Now I'm at 1.5mg nic level and the best part? Every time I'd quit before (patch, spray, gum, whatever) I'd gain 30+ flipping pounds, but being able to gradually reduce the nic levels while still "smoking" resulted in no weight gain at all.

so my smoking rant aside; I wonder if a sort of similar concept could even be applied to things like sugar and junk food. Probably not, but then again I do know a handful of nieces and nephews who gagged and swore off hotdogs once they found out what they were made of. Of course now they eat gallons of hummus each month....but at least they make it themselves; progress?

Well I mean it's anecdotal BUT you see right here at least you aren't letting it hang without quantifying it.

Which besides what it is, there is merit and value to it, vs someone who says I am a Doctor thus this is bad (qualifying) or someone saying I used to be a smoker but doesn't give actual reasons behind their position which would be quantifying their statement vs like the doctor saying I am a former Smoker (qualifying)

The man difference to me is that with a Doctor provided they are in the required field maybe their opinion is that. However you saying I am a former smoking, not letting your comments hang on that, and quantifying with meat the merits of your position, I think it can be not only valid but more important in some cases.


I think the obesity epidemic I rather go with what is effective, provided it isn't cruel or inhumane.

[Delana]

What difference does it mean, and why does one's views on a global forum need to be only in line with what effects their own backyard, when that isn't an actual rule.

Australia is part of a global community whether you like it or not, so yeah WE, including the U.S and Canada ought to be doing more about the obesity epidemic, one of the primary things as being target those who are targeting the masses and helping to create the harm that is ballooning the need for higher healthcare cost.

This right here. State run healthcare is incompatible with freedom. Virtually any activity can be restricted under this logic.

[Doctor Amadeus]

This right here. State run healthcare is incompatible with freedom. Virtually any activity can be restricted under this logic.

Well of course it can, and any kind of insanity can be allowed if you cry freedom loud enough.

[Delana]

Well of course it can, and any kind of insanity can be allowed if you cry freedom loud enough.

Note that you're literally painting drinking a soft drink as insanity. What other benign things am I no longer free to do in your socialist utopia?

[Putin-Chan]

"We". Stop injecting yourself to other nations' business.

Hey, Tennisace once bought something from Australia, he's totally an Australian taxpayer!

[Doctor Amadeus]

The entire point of a democracy is to not have laws/regulations described as "people aren't going to like it". Doesn't matter what my perspective is or that this is Australia.

Well let me explain something to you Sulla, I don't care about people's personal freedoms or perspectives on the law or anything else. Because if don't see I don't find any value to their argument, and there is absolutely no logic.

Then no matter what it is, I am 100% ok with circumventing their rights to almost any or every degree.

Autocratic nanny state bullshit accomplished by fiat (especially when it is immensely unpopular) is quintessentially undemocratic. Government, should be for the people, but more importantly BY THE PEOPLE; not by a handful of busybody dipshit bureaucrats with sticks up their asses.

If it was up to me if the world would be made a better place by microchipping your ass, I would be more than please be the one to hold your down look you in the eyes as you got implanted.

I believe in freedom, and equality even though people aren't all the same, but that doesn't mean I believe all ideas are the same or should be respected, and I damn sure don't agree to protect them.

If a person disagrees, they need to have a sound argument in reason, or logic and the better both. If they don't meet that criteria.

Then no we aren't equals, and I am not sure your freedoms really all that matter, mostly because you don't actually have them, you didn't especially earn any privilege you think is your right, but if you don't have an appreciation for where any of that comes from or the process of maintaining it, then your protest is meaningless.

[Tiwack]

Well considering endurance athletes have a >60% lower chance of getting type 2 diabetes(diet be damned) I would say making it all about sports is probably one of your best bets.

Not everyone wants to become athletes though and some don't even like sports to begin with. As long as they include good sound education on how your body works and how to take care of it they can include eating contests and Esports for all I care

[Doctor Amadeus]

Note that you're literally painting drinking a soft drink as insanity. What other benign things am I no longer free to do in your socialist utopia?

It is insanity when you have a epidemic of mass proportions of people who are consuming so much they require machines and breathing machines before they are 40, and every advance in modern science is stifled because of a disease like greed, and plenty of other forms of stupidity have no only been let to until it is out of check, it was encouraged and profited by some whether they knew or not.

So well now we have a problem, and people business and the average person might not like what we need to do to curb it, but this bullshit of caring how the fuck everybody feels about it needs to come to an end.

[AcidicSyn]

It is not culture though. Sugar is fundamentally satisfying, that is why it is put in food. It is a bit like trying to convince people not to enjoy orgasms or something. No one has to tell you it is good. It is like my sister who has spent a lifetime trying to convince everyone she prefers skimmed milk. I still don't believe it, especially since you can show the body's reaction to fat on a brain scan.



Well considering endurance athletes have a >60% lower chance of getting type 2 diabetes(diet be damned) I would say making it all about sports is probably one of your best bets.

Adding sugar to food is the part that is not only unhealthy; its unnecessary. Natural sugars are fine; our bodies need them, and we enjoy them; but it needs to be done in moderation. The same goes for fats. I love avocado; imagine if when some years back those ads touting avocado as some kind of miracle food I took that as an excuse to eat 14 of them every day (and I would absolutely eat 14 avocados every damned day if it was healthy to do so) I'd have blown up like a balloon. The culture bit I am referring to is the knowledge that is available, and more importantly distributed to our youth. tbh I may have just used culture incorrectly, but my point is that if we teach our children the correct way to eat early, they are much less likely to have issues with obesity as adults (The time to cook factor is probably the largest factor for adults; but I'll stick to the kids for this post). Sugar and fat are not bad, especially when naturally occurring. Adding them in excess to everything however, is fundamentally flawed thinking imo.

I was fat, cholesterol was terrible (was even on meds for it), blood pressure through the roof. Both my hobbies and my job were on a computer- I basically looked exactly as you might imagine, with the exception that I had quite a bit of muscle under all that fat storage. Then my doctor gave me some good old fashioned non-cushioned blunt force to the head reality; the guy told me point blank my heart was going to explode if I kept working it the way I was. The part that confused me was, I actually did go to the gym 5-7 times a week (yes I skipped leg day sometimes bite me so do you and you know you do). Long story short my diet was killing me; then I made a change, I went vegan. I actually stopped exercising (stupid decision and I need to start up again) but I lost over 70lbs in the first 6 months of converting. Went to the doc absolutely convinced I must have some disease or deficiency. Nope, have had the same doctor since I was 16; and he showed me my charts- I was healthier then than I ever was in my entire life, no more meds, blood pressure is fine and I felt (and still feel) great.

Sure, my method was extreme, and I'm not about to start advocating that we all go vegan; but looking past the part about being vegan; it was all the research I had done on what I was eating and making those changes to ensure that what I was eating was healthy for me AND met my bodies needs for the lifestyle I was/am living that really made that change work. That's the part I'm talking about; making sure we teach kids about body mass index and how fat attaches to your cells or how your body processes sugar, and I don't mean mindlessly copying notes for some state exam requirement. Really teach them. I don't think it should be acceptable for a single student to leave high school without a firm understanding of how to freakin take care of themselves. Vegan, paleo, keto, <whatever> is a debate they can have on their own. Here in Florida, in many districts health is an elective. A freakin ELECTIVE! That needs to change.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Uh oh guys, we got a tyrannical bad ass over here. You should try out living in one of the countries that goes along with your belief system for a while. They might teach you (by force) how to string together a meaningful forum post that doesn't come across as a bunch of mental case gibberish.

I'm just honestly putting your objection in perspective of how I see it. The less freedom and consideration the noise you suggest the better.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I feel the same way about people that keep lower-class non-skilled jobs their entire adult lives... kind of like mall security guards. We should force them to get a proper education in a skill more meaningful to society.

- - - Updated - - -



Your perspective is problematic, on a great many things.

lol I'm sure you do. But that doesn't change reality. See despite what you think. My perspective isn't problematic it's just clear. We don't value the same things.

OT I'm ok with this, obesity kills people and is a problem Security not so much.