WoW: The RPG Without Customization

[Nihilan]

Wildstar does many things better than WoW. Not least of which is player housing. Were it not for WS's almost tragically single minded focus on "Teh Hardcore Raiderz" at launch, they would very likely have taken a far larger portion of WoWs playerbase. Instead they are on the precarious verge of bankruptcy.

Player housing in that game is basically a lego set where you complete pve activities to unlock various decorations. E.g., your lego blocks.

[Deleted]

You posted snowflake builds
Pretty sure several people covered snowflake builds multiple times.

Snowflake builds? What's that

[clevin]

ns.

The only problem with reforging was hit/expertise, with those gone reforging has no downfalls... It's most definitely better than the Netherlight crucible, which is just reforging with added RNG and tons of extra problems (having to bind the relic to you just to find out if the "reforging" RNGd into something decent)... I would much rather have Reforging than Netherlight.


the same could be said of gems, and enchanting. Whats the point if you're just going to pick the one that is best based on your stat priority? That argument sounds stupid to even just say aloud.

You get 2 items the same ilvl, and you pick the one that simcraft tells you is best based on your stat priority, what's the point? follows the same premise, but also sounds stupid.

What reforging does, and does well, is give you more options in gear, items that would have otherwise been disenchanted on sight can potentially be upgrades.

More customization is not a bad thing.

To address this point - reforging lets me tailor and *re-tailor* the same piece of gear. Say my two best stats are mastery and haste. I get an item with lots of crit and some mastery. At the point I get this, My gear set is low on haste... so I can reforge some crit to haste. Later, I get drops in other slots and I'm now fine on haste... I can redo the reforging on this piece to trade the crit for mastery instead of the haste. This is just like enchants or gems but we have fewer slots that we can enchant (and WHY???) and get fewer sockets now, too.

As it is, if I get a vers/crit piece I just curse at the waste of a drop and can't do anything about it.

[huth]

Are you honestly going to try and claim WoW has more character customization than a FF game? Hilarious.

Given that some of them don't have any whatsoever, it's hard for WoW to have less.

[Pensatore]

Wow is so overrated right now

[BlackMage66652]

I completly agree. That's why I quit FFXIV, it has none of those, therefore its not even an RPG, its apparently closer to an FPS.

Are you fucking high?

[huth]

To address this point - reforging lets me tailor and *re-tailor* the same piece of gear. Say my two best stats are mastery and haste. I get an item with lots of crit and some mastery. At the point I get this, My gear set is low on haste... so I can reforge some crit to haste. Later, I get drops in other slots and I'm now fine on haste... I can redo the reforging on this piece to trade the crit for mastery instead of the haste. This is just like enchants or gems but we have fewer slots that we can enchant (and WHY???) and get fewer sockets now, too.

As it is, if I get a vers/crit piece I just curse at the waste of a drop and can't do anything about it.

Was that even possible, reforging to a stat already present on the item?

And you'd still curse at the Vers/Crit piece. That has nothing to do with Reforging, but with the item being crap. Reforging never changed that some items just weren't worth using, it only changed what items specificially this applies to.

[Kyanion]

I think it's a case of "I looked up what spec to use and never deviated from it so everyone else must've too". I never followed guides, I made the builds myself. For example I ran a fire build on my warlock in TBC while everyone else ran with the cookie cutter shadow bolt spam spec and I kicked their asses every single fight, simply because the spec worked better in an actual raid environment than it did on paper.

Okay cool. You beat people on your realm. If you think it was the optimal spec you were wrong. There is a reason why 'cookie cutter' builds exist. You think you solved the game with your ingenious builds and you are free to think that. You are wrong but you are free to think that.

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There are? Maybe for some classes but my Monk is VERY much "cookie cutter". There is as much "cookie cutter" builds today as there were in previous expansions for a lot of classes. At least my monk is, not sure for everyone else.

So in your first post you bitch about things being removed from the game but then you highlight the fact the game is the same 'cookie cutter' as it always has been. So you don't need the things they removed? Got it.

[clevin]

Was that even possible, reforging to a stat already present on the item?

And you'd still curse at the Vers/Crit piece. That has nothing to do with Reforging, but with the item being crap. Reforging never changed that some items just weren't worth using, it only changed what items specificially this applies to.

I don't think you could reforge to a stat that the item had... I'd remove that restriction.

And yes, it would still be crap, but I could make it less crap. More to the point, I could take something that's a minor upgrade and make it better. Or, well, see my comment - I could tweak my overall stat profile.

The thing is, even ignoring reforging entirely... this is what we used to do with enchants and gems. It's not like this is a new concept. The only thing different about reforging is that you move some of one stat into another vs simply adding a stat to an item.

The loss of reforging and the drastic restriction of enchants and gems means we're far more dependent on drop luck now and that means you either 1) call it good at some point and don't chase gear or 2) you play a LOT more.

[Kyanion]

They don't report on sub numbers because they're at an all time low.

Nice alternative facts. I mean they totally didn't gain people from the release of Legion from the disaster of dead time that WoD was. Nope. All time low! You must have insider knowledge!

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"Some of them".

What like FF1 and FF2? Hahahaha. Christ almighty you people will spew anything to support your argument.

Dude you really need to let this go. You are looking really clueless here. There is no customization in many of the console Final Fantasy games from years past. Most character sprites NEVER CHANGED outside of the weapon equipped. It would be different if you were actually talking about the MMO FF but you aren't.

[Deleted]

Yeah, because the game is soooo balance right now, right? Oh wait.

its balance better than iut ever was yes. with some of the best boss fights ever.

[Kyanion]

its balance better than iut ever was yes. with some of the best boss fights ever.

Hell most of the people mocking the balance or fights likely haven't even played the game in years.

[IIamaKing]

Nice alternative facts. I mean they totally didn't gain people from the release of Legion from the disaster of dead time that WoD was. Nope. All time low! You must have insider knowledge!

THey have not gained subs since WotLK. Going from 14 to 5 back up to 7 in not a gain. Beyond that, I would happily bet that they are back down to around 5 or less atm.

[Alydael]

are you now turning STUPID beyond silly on purpose?
there is no such thing as BEST BOOK or BEST SONG you silly. and comparing min-maxing to books/songs makes you look REALLY silly...

There is a best song and book actually, by definition of the term "best." You can google the definition if you don't know what it means.

You got so caught up in semantics- you missed the whole point btw (/golfclap).

The point was, that a certain spec might not be the top performer in the raid (highest deeps or w/e), but it still might be fun to play and worth having. Just because a certain "concept" behind a spec doesn't preform as well, doesn't mean it should be abandoned.

To bring it back to the book analogy that you loved so well, just because a book isn't the "best" book doesn't mean it's not worth reading and still enjoyable.

[Schattenlied]

its balance better than iut ever was yes. with some of the best boss fights ever.

Have you done literally any PvP lately? I'd wager not. It's a total mess.

Have you looked at the discrepancy between classes in PvE on Warcraft Logs? I'd wager not. There is more than a 20% gap between the top and bottom.

I'm not talking about just PvE and how the bosses are balanced, the way the classes compare to each other is currently very awful in both major endgame settings.

[Kyanion]

THey have not gained subs since WotLK. Going from 14 to 5 back up to 7 in not a gain. Beyond that, I would happily bet that they are back down to around 5 or less atm.

Oh sorry I didn't realize going from 5 to 7 is not a gain. That's cool. Math sure is weird! Also if you are going to make shit up at least get it right. Highest point was around 12.5, they never had 14 and after WotLK they hit 10mil twice (not even counting Cata which would make 3).

Considering the age of this game it is frankly quite impressive.

[Deleted]

No you did not follow always a cookie cutter build in WotlK.

Yes you did, but you are in denial with your tinted glasses.

[TheLimonTree]

the game was much more interesting when you had people coming up with new and funky ways to play the game.

I mean you can come up with new ways, they're just not encouraged because simcraft had made everything numerically valued

[Kyanion]

So math is always right? What people theorycraft is always right and encounter design should always be ignored and we should always go for the patchwerk sims? If so we can throw most of todays talents out the window since they are useless.

If something raises my DPS by 10% on any given fight it's better, that's not even up for discussion, it doesn't matter what some nerd in a basement is calculating, DPS increase is DPS increase..

Your last line is so fucking wrong it almost physically hurt me. You keep thinking you have cracked the code and know the best things to take for every fight and always stomp everyone on dps. You just link those logs for us to gawk at and I'll be more than happy to change my tune. But since I know you are full of shit I don't have to worry about it.

Theorycrafting is important but it is ALSO coupled with practical experience in the raids and evolves as things are learned. But I don't know why I am bothering. You are so willfully arrogant in your wrongness it is best just to let you carry on doing it.

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I mean you can come up with new ways, they're just not encouraged because simcraft had made everything numerically valued

They just want to live in the fantasy world that back in the day they could play this "Innovative Spec" that no one had figured out that made them a badass. What they don't realize is that they were a badass in their own minds or to a tiny amount of people (such as their guild). When compared to people who actually knew what the fuck they were doing it was easy to see just how wrong those people were.

That being said while some of the oddball things were NOT good on dps they were fun for players, and some of that is missing for the game. I had no problem with people playing specs how they wanted and casting what they wanted as long as it wasn't harming me in a raid or something. But I had a problem when those people think they have the best new spec ever and everyone is wrong with their evil theorycrafting and logs proving what was REALLY the best specs for situations.

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If something raises my DPS by 10% on any given fight it's better, that's not even up for discussion, it doesn't matter what some nerd in a basement is calculating, DPS increase is DPS increase.

This is EXACTLY what I mean @TheLimonTree

[Deleted]

Pretty sure several people covered snowflake builds multiple times.

yes, but he tends to ignore those people and continues to dream on about "better" times when the game was new for him....

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Wildstar does many things better than WoW.

Surely not bringing the cash in, it doesnt

Were it not for WS's almost tragically single minded focus on "Teh Hardcore Raiderz" at launch, they would very likely have taken a far larger portion of WoWs playerbase.

No, they wouldnt cause WoW secret is that you and your mom can play it

Instead they are on the precarious verge of bankruptcy.

Just let'em die already

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There is a best song and book actually, by definition of the term "best."

Oh you young silly one, you gotta lot to lern if you really think if someone says "this is the best book ever" you instantly belive it. But go on believing that centuries of books has one book as the best of them all (hint for when you got some life experience: there is not....)

The point was, that a certain spec might not be the top performer in the raid (highest deeps or w/e), but it still might be fun to play and worth having.

this is so dumb its beyond silly. A specc that is fun to play but NOT viable is NOT worth having you can only claim that if you DONT play since vanilla obviously.

Just because a certain "concept" behind a spec doesn't preform as well, doesn't mean it should be abandoned.

but yes, that is what you do as a devoloper to invest more in viable options.

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Have you done literally any PvP lately? I'd wager not. It's a total mess.

So, who cares for pvp? fuck pvp, kick it out of the game and be done with it already. (PS: pvp has been a mess since vanilla)