Bethesda paid mods came out and its exactly what skeptics assumed.

[corebit]

no one brought up royalties other then you we were talking about nexus mods and how modding shouldn't be the only hobby where your expected to not get paid.

Right, I'm countering Yunru and Sydanyo's belief that modders should do all their shit for free, because "that's how they were done before" Other gaming-related hobbies allow people to make money and they don't bat an eye.

So, I Push Buttons, do you hold the same stance or not? Because I initially replied to Sydanyo and you took my reply to argue about royalties, when I don't even care about that.

[I Push Buttons]

Right, I'm countering Yunru and Sydanyo's belief that modders should do all their shit for free, because "that's how they were done before" Other gaming-related hobbies allow people to make money and they don't bat an eye.

So, I Push Buttons, do you hold the same stance or not? Because I initially replied to Sydanyo and you took my reply to argue about royalties, when I don't even care about that.

If it weren't against the EULAs they agreed to, then I would have no problem with them selling their mods.

No one would buy them, just like no one would buy YouTube videos... But they would be free to sell them.

[corebit]

If it weren't against the EULAs they agreed to, then I would have no problem with them selling their mods.

No one would buy them, just like no one would buy YouTube videos... But they would be free to sell them.

Right at least you agree that dedicated modders should be paid somehow for their efforts. I don't care whether it comes from royalties or ad revenue or what not.

I don't argue that Bethesda has done a very shitty first impression with their Creation Club, but at least their motive is a good one. As long as modders are compensated fairly, then I support their intentions. What they need to do is not fuck up anymore and put out actual DLC-quality type content to win over the community instead of putting shitty overpriced reskins that have better alternatives on the Nexus site.

[SirCowdog]

Not by selling their videos to the people consuming them... They make money from ads and from selling merchandise. People consume the videos for free.

If you have a gripe about Nexus modders not getting paid, then perhaps you should tell the Nexus to share their ad money with modders since it is the modders drawing traffic to their site, literally nothing else. Donation are equivalent to purchasing merchandise in a sense.

If that's really your stance, then maybe Bethesda should share some of their Skyrim sales due to modders keeping their game on the top seller list for so long. Hmm?

[endersblade]

If that's really your stance, then maybe Bethesda should share some of their Skyrim sales due to modders keeping their game on the top seller list for so long. Hmm?

Good point. I think Bethesda would've gone under long ago if it wasn't for all of their games being moddable.

[SirCowdog]

Good point. I think Bethesda would've gone under long ago if it wasn't for all of their games being moddable.

I doubt Bethesda would have gone under, but games like the Elder Scrolls and Fallout series sure as hell wouldn't have sold well. I think it's fair to say that those games live because of the modding scene, and a significant amount of the sales are also because of mods.

[I Push Buttons]

I doubt Bethesda would have gone under, but games like the Elder Scrolls and Fallout series sure as hell wouldn't have sold well. I think it's fair to say that those games live because of the modding scene, and a significant amount of the sales are also because of mods.

This is utter bullshit.

The far and beyond vast majority of Elder Scrolls and Fallout sales are on console and until a year ago, consoles didn't have mods. Skyrim, for example... 86% of its sales were on console.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I doubt Bethesda would have gone under, but games like the Elder Scrolls and Fallout series sure as hell wouldn't have sold well. I think it's fair to say that those games live because of the modding scene, and a significant amount of the sales are also because of mods.

Ya no there games sell way better on consoles then pc most people don't have high end pc's capable of notable modding.

[Aleksej89]

I really want bethesda to keep making games.
While their games are often a buggy mess with a lot of cut content, they are perfect "platforms" that can be further fixed, upgraded and expanded by the community.
Stuff like Unofficial Patches and many many other mods are the core reason why Bethesda games are so long lived.

The whole payed mods approach might literally kill that whole mod aspect of bethesda games, along with their longevity.
Literally no one will pay for mods that are identical to those they have been using for DECADES in many bethesda games.
Not to mention that those payed mods will probably get "pirated" and cracked so fast that the whole concept of payed mods will fall apart.

One possibility where payed mods could succeed is if they are literally expansion-sized.
I do not know how would issues with bugs/stability/polish be handled but the only type of mod i would pay for is if it was as big/good as Dawnguard or Dragonborn (skyrim).

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I really want bethesda to keep making games.
While their games are often a buggy mess with a lot of cut content, they are perfect "platforms" that can be further fixed, upgraded and expanded by the community.
Stuff like Unofficial Patches and many many other mods are the core reason why Bethesda games are so long lived.

The whole payed mods approach might literally kill that whole mod aspect of bethesda games, along with their longevity.
Literally no one will pay for mods that are identical to those they have been using for DECADES in many bethesda games.
Not to mention that those payed mods will probably get "pirated" and cracked so fast that the whole concept of payed mods will fall apart.

One possibility where payed mods could succeed is if they are literally expansion-sized.
I do not know how would issues with bugs/stability/polish be handled but the only type of mod i would pay for is if it was as big/good as Dawnguard or Dragonborn (skyrim).

If they keep making games like fallout 4 then I hope they don't keep making game and get some one like obsidian to use there ip's fallout was great as an rpg making it a crappy stream lined action game like 4 takes away so much of what made fallout good.

As for paid mods I think there fine even with smaller dlc/micro transactions. Sure some people will pirate them but some won't and I highly doubt they will take any action against free mods not to mention the people on PlayStation who can't really get mods without them being from Bethesda.

[SirCowdog]

Ya no there games sell way better on consoles then pc most people don't have high end pc's capable of notable modding.

This is utter bullshit.

The far and beyond vast majority of Elder Scrolls and Fallout sales are on console and until a year ago, consoles didn't have mods. Skyrim, for example... 86% of its sales were on console.

86% of physical copies sold. Valve doesn't release sales figures so we're never likely to get the full picture. But if you think mods didn't impact sales and extend the lifespan of Bethesda games then I don't know what to tell you other than there's a very good reason Skyrim and Fallout are still making money.

[I Push Buttons]

86% of physical copies sold. Valve doesn't release sales figures so we're never likely to get the full picture. But if you think mods didn't impact sales and extend the lifespan of Bethesda games then I don't know what to tell you other than there's a very good reason Skyrim and Fallout are still making money.

I never said that, I said your argument of "Elder Scrolls and Fallout series sure as hell wouldn't have sold well" without mods was utter bullshit. Obviously mod-ability was important to millions of players (whether it was the deciding factor in their purchase, we could never know, I personally doubt it, but to each his own)... But we are talking about TENS OF MILLIONS of copies sold.

The most recent number given was 30,000,000 copies... And we can see from NPD data that 18-19 million copies were physical and sold on console...

In 2014 (a year before Skyrim's first "free weekend" on Steam, which destroyed Steamspy's stats on the game), Arstechnica estimated based on their own crawler scanning accounts that ~6 million steam accounts owned Skyrim.

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-conte...s-0404.001.png

(Once again, this is 2014):


That brings us up to ~25 million copies...

Even if you assume every single one of those remaining 5 million copies were sold on PC (which is laughable since we aren't even counting console digital sales, which are in the millions), PC would still only be 1/3 of sales...

[SirCowdog]

I never said that, I said your argument of "Elder Scrolls and Fallout series sure as hell wouldn't have sold well" without mods was utter bullshit. Obviously mod-ability was important to millions of players (whether it was the deciding factor in their purchase, we could never know, I personally doubt it, but to each his own)... But we are talking about TENS OF MILLIONS of copies sold.

The most recent number given was 30,000,000 copies... And we can see from NPD data that 18-19 million copies were physical and sold on console...

In 2014 (a year before Skyrim's first "free weekend" on Steam, which destroyed Steamspy's stats on the game), Arstechnica estimated based on their own crawler scanning accounts that ~6 million steam accounts owned Skyrim.

That brings us up to ~25 million copies...

Even if you assume every single one of those remaining 5 million copies were sold on PC (which is laughable since we aren't even counting console digital sales, which are in the millions), PC would still only be 1/3 of sales...

Yeah, actually, after doing some of my own research, it looks like I was waaaaay off base. I had assumed that PC sales were a LOT higher. And while there's a lot of ambiguity due to Steam not releasing actual sales numbers, the console sales are pretty clear.

That surprised me quite a bit, because I'd never thought the console versions of those games were that good. Actually, they're quite bad, IMO. Even the PC versions weren't all that good until the modding community had time to fix everything. Bethesda has a bad habit of releasing games in a terrible, bug-ridden state.

Well, consider me educated, I guess. I still think modders deserve more than they get, especially now that it looks like they're trying to bring mods to consoles(with all that entails). I really hope this creation club nonsense doesn't screw things up.

[stellvia]

The problem with how Bethesda does Creation Club atm, is its not really mods so much as cheap contract workers developing DLC. It makes them more money while being cheaper than hiring actual developers in-house.

[Deleted]

modders should continue to not get paid

modders should do all their shit for free

This is a BS false premise. Nobody should make a single mod. Nobody needs to make a single mod. They can choose not to mod. Guess what though? There'll be plenty of people who will make mods for free. There'd be plenty of people who'd make YouTube videos for free, too, even if there was no monetization there.

So yeah, you're just peddling a lie here; I never said people would be forced to make mods for free. They've always got the option to do something else, instead.

[Orange Joe]

I doubt Bethesda would have gone under, but games like the Elder Scrolls and Fallout series sure as hell wouldn't have sold well. I think it's fair to say that those games live because of the modding scene, and a significant amount of the sales are also because of mods.

You do know only about 14% of skyrim sales were on the pc right? That means 85% bought the game without being able to mod it.

[SirCowdog]

You do know only about 14% of skyrim sales were on the pc right? That means 85% bought the game without being able to mod it.

Read the rest of the thread, yo

[Orange Joe]

Read the rest of the thread, yo

As of 2015 it's 14% of total. This doesn't seperate digital from physical.

http://www.statisticbrain.com/skyrim...-v-statistics/

The whole digital phisical things means nothing when it comes to skyrim. No mater how you bought it you got it on steam. Steam sales are able to be tracked.

This shows that most of the people that bought skyrim when it came out didn't give 2 fucks about mods.

[Cyclone Jack]

Correct. People didn't care about mods when Skyrim launched, because there were no mods to care about.

The Creation Kit took a few months before it was released (4-5 months after launch IIRC), and then it took a few months after that before we started seeing any decent mods. There were a few mods that started coming out before the CK was released, but I think it would be safe to say that mods didn't really start to have an impact until 6-12 months after launch, well past most games' shelf life. This is the key factor; as most games tend to die off, games with a healthy modding community can last a decade or more (or in Doom's case, a quarter of a century).

[Deleted]

As for Skyrim and it's PC sales, it's true that compared to console sales the PC sales were low, but I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't just as many people playing it on the PC as there were on the console, anyway. Of course those people don't affect sales, but they sure do keep the modding community alive.