Finland’s Welfare State Has a Massive Baby Problem

[truckboattruck]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...e-baby-problem

Well...at this point you really do need immigration to keep the welfare state going. Not much else you can do. Can't force Fins to have babies. Hopefully they do the right thing.

so destroy an entire people and replace them so you dont have to endure growing pains?
no thank you, 3rd world immigration only produces more 3rd world


just have more babies and tie your welfare state to that. thank you

[Deleted]

Governments, it's simple. Want your nation to survive? Depower women. Look at all the third-world nations like India, Somalia, Pakistan and our (Western Europe's) past history, when we had healthy birthrates. If you remove a woman's ability to work, inherit, financially support themselves and marry outside of arranged marriages, then they can focus less on working or fretting over a suitor and more on carrying new life to term.

You know how indecisive women are. Their addled, small minds can't concentrate on more than one thing at a time without becoming frazzled and over-heated. Why else are cases of stress, depression and suicide skyrocketing in the west? Remove choice, have women focus on only one thing (child rearing), and our society will be much happier.

Slavery is freedom!

[Seranthor]

Well...at this point you really do need immigration to keep the welfare state going. Not much else you can do. Can't force Fins to have babies. Hopefully they do the right thing.

You really do like to try and be in everyone ELSE's business instead of your own... Tell us, how many First Nation women went missing today? How many were murdered? How many Haitians did Pierre's whelp throw out today? Minding everyone else's business means that other people have to mind yours for you. I am sure you dont mind.

But OT, She's right, they DO need more people to fund their welfare state. Cause its all fun and games until you run out of people to leech money from.

[Tennis]

I find it interesting how Tennis, a Canadian, is so interested in importing unwanted immigrants into other countries. Why don't we just leave the garbage in the bin and move on?

Actually look at the OP's post. Finland has a problem keeping the welfare state running. The obvious solution is immigration. It's worked well in Canada, U.S. etc

[Deathpath]

In the long term it is worth it. These young immigrants will reproduce at a higher rate and also will help bolster the welfare state. Otherwise guess what the pyramid will look like?

What country do you expect these immigrants to come from?

[Tennis]

What country do you expect these immigrants to come from?

They likely won't come from G20 countries since they wouldn't want to immigrate to Finland.

[Kolbjorn]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...e-baby-problem

Well...at this point you really do need immigration to keep the welfare state going. Not much else you can do. Can't force Fins to have babies. Hopefully they do the right thing.

What's "welfare state" have to do with this?

Every major developed nation, including the United States, has this problem.

[GreenJesus]

Actually look at the OP's post. Finland has a problem keeping the welfare state running. The obvious solution is immigration. It's worked well in Canada, U.S. etc

Do you mean immigration or refugees? Regular immigrants from a country with similar societal and economic background is beneficial. Refugees from middle east? Probably not as much since they will most likely only increase the welfare costs.

[Deathpath]

So most of africa and the middle east? Like that's worked before in other first world nations...

[Sorshen]

If you allow women to exist without the support of a man (i.e. welfare/UBI or alimony in the USA), then they won't have babies. Tie a woman's survival and wellbeing to having a husband supporting her, then she has no choice but to fulfill her marital, spousal duties of providing him sex and children.

Governments, it's simple. Want your nation to survive? Depower women. Look at all the third-world nations like India, Somalia, Pakistan and our (Western Europe's) past history, when we had healthy birthrates. If you remove a woman's ability to work, inherit, financially support themselves and marry outside of arranged marriages, then they can focus less on working or fretting over a suitor and more on their primary function: carrying new life to term.

You know how indecisive women are. Their addled, small minds can't concentrate on more than one thing at a time without becoming frazzled and over-heated. Why else are cases of stress, depression and suicide skyrocketing in the west? Remove these hard decisions, have women focus on only one thing (child rearing), and our society will be much happier. I think Thomas Jefferson couldn't have said it more eloquently: "We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness." Preserve life, liberate our women from worries and give them happiness with a dedication to motherhood.


[Infracted]

Wew, it's like reading about a The Handmaid's Tale episode.

[Amerrol]

If you allow women to exist without the support of a man (i.e. welfare/UBI or alimony in the USA), then they won't have babies. Tie a woman's survival and wellbeing to having a husband supporting her, then she has no choice but to fulfill her marital, spousal duties of providing him sex and children.

Governments, it's simple. Want your nation to survive? Depower women. Look at all the third-world nations like India, Somalia, Pakistan and our (Western Europe's) past history, when we had healthy birthrates. If you remove a woman's ability to work, inherit, financially support themselves and marry outside of arranged marriages, then they can focus less on working or fretting over a suitor and more on their primary function: carrying new life to term.

You know how indecisive women are. Their addled, small minds can't concentrate on more than one thing at a time without becoming frazzled and over-heated. Why else are cases of stress, depression and suicide skyrocketing in the west? Remove these hard decisions, have women focus on only one thing (child rearing), and our society will be much happier. I think Thomas Jefferson couldn't have said it more eloquently: "We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness." Preserve life, liberate our women from worries and give them happiness with a dedication to motherhood.


[Infracted]

He's right to an extent. When did birthrates for white people start to decline? 1960s. When did women's rights and sexual liberation start to really gain traction? 1960s. Countries that have a male dominated society aren't facing declining birthrates.

This is obviously not the only reason, as many socioeconomic factors come into play, but it's certainly a major factor. Unfortunately, the West seems hell bent on wiping itself out, but at least I'll be dead before it happens.

[Vash The Stampede]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...e-baby-problem

Well...at this point you really do need immigration to keep the welfare state going. Not much else you can do. Can't force Fins to have babies. Hopefully they do the right thing.

No you need to fix aging itself, not immigrate people who have babies.

[Deleted]

Can't force Fins to have babies. Hopefully they do the right thing.

Sigh, Tennisace taka a crap on Finland becuse there low ther fertility rate are 1.57 but ignoring that Canadas fertility rate are at 1.6 (2015)

[Mormolyce]

It's no secret that pretty much all major Western nations are below replacement levels and therefore need immigration to reduce the burden of an aging population.

And "welfare" is rather misleading, the problem is old people specifically. They need lots of young people contributing so that they can pay their massive medical bills and try to stay alive. Via welfare OR otherwise.

There are ~7 Billion humans on Earth with the Earth lacking the resources to lavishly sustain every one of us.

Which resources are you referring to?

They tried that...

Crybabies called it imperialism, accused the west of destroying indigenous culture, and made them to stop.

Or you could bring those people to the West where they can enjoy the social and economic progress of Western nations.

But then the OTHER group of crybabies said "waaaaah immergernts!!!".

[Seranthor]

Actually look at the OP's post. Finland has a problem keeping the welfare state running. The obvious solution is immigration. It's worked well in Canada, U.S. etc

You ARE the OP. Unless you are sharing your account again. Are you sharing your account again OP?

Are you suggesting the rest of the world follow Canada's lead on immigration? Would that be the lead of cherry picking who they let in? or would that be the lead of kicking out people that want asylum? Or would that be only letting them in if they can contribute and not be a drain on government services? Which is it? inquiring minds want to know... Facts Mister... we need facts.

Canada takes in ~250,000 immigrants a year, you have a Population of 36.29 Million. you take in 0.7%... if Finland were to do what Canada is doing they would have to cut their immigration in half... Let that sink in... you take in less than half of what Finland takes in... Pathetic.

[Dezerte]

I think there are other solutions to the problem, immigration is more of a band-aid than a fix.

Identify why families are having less children, and try to tackle that (we know that richer and more developed nations tend to have lower birthrates). Should we raise the pension age? Should we reduce work hours? Whatever the reason, we're going to need to solve it sooner or later.

[Mormolyce]

Sigh, Tennisace taka a crap on Finland becuse there low ther fertility rate are 1.57 but ignoring that Canadas fertility rate are at 1.6 (2015)

It's basically everywhere - places like France and the US look closer to 2.0 on paper but if you dig into that you realise that's because of fertile immigrants coming into the country. Mostly Hispanic immigrants on the US side - were it not for them they'd be contracting pretty rapidly too.

Also research shows that every subsequent generation after immigration gets closer to the US average birth rate, so the country needs a constant flow of immigrants to prop it up.

[Seranthor]

Sigh, Tennisace taka a crap on Finland becuse there low ther fertility rate are 1.57 but ignoring that Canadas fertility rate are at 1.6 (2015)

And immigration to Finland is 2x as the rate Canada allows in...

Why does Canada hate immigrants so much?

[Calfredd]

And immigration to Finland is 2x as the rate Canada allows in...

Why does Canada hate immigrants so much?

Uh oh. You guys are talking bad about Canada, you probably scared him off.

[Mormolyce]

Well the age of retirement was conceived at a point in time when people lived on average a decade less. The age of retirement needs to keep up with life expectancy otherwise pensions need to be cut significantly down.

Actually if you adjust for infant mortality rates, the average lifespan was pretty much the same for the entire 20th Century.