Varian Wrynn VS Grom Hellscream

[lazypeon100]

I think the disconnect here is strategy/tactical prowess in combat vs warfare. Grommash was a very rash and hotblooded leader, in that he would command his forces to charge into many situations without considering all (or sometimes any) factors. This however doesn't really carry anything into the OP scenario though, I don't think anyone would disagree that if the scenario is a classic RTS 1v1 ladder match type of set up; Varian would win in nearly all categories. The solo combat prowess of Grommash Hellscream however, is an entirely separate matter, and certainly not one he was in any way lacking skill or intelligence in.


Side note; does anyone else know about those various youtube groups that make fan-fic fights (IE: super powered beatdown)? I really, really, wish we could see Varian vs. Grom built in one of those.

Perhaps you're right. I always saw Grom as too rash, which to me tells me he is more open to making mistakes. But Grom was also an insanely powerful warrior in his own right.

Also, I do know what you are talking about! Screwattack has a series on youtube called Deathbattle where they analyze two different character with either similar themes or abilities and then animate a fight between them (then explain their conclusion).

I think this would be a pretty good one for them to do, though I doubt they would pick two characters from the same game / universe.

[Goondicker]

Voted Grom but am biased.

[Jorah]

Varian with the blessing of Goldrin could not win against a tired Garrosh, people rly think he could win against Grom with the demon blood? what the fuck, for real?

Are you serious? Varian swooped his ass in Wolfheart - if not Kor'Krom bodyguard Garrosh would bite the dust there.

Don't know why everyone think orcs fight like Scourge, mindlessly charging until they tire out.
This is not Lotr, orcs aren't morons in Warcraft.

They both have equal chance of outsmarting each other, Varian is not some genius comparing to Grom.
(That's just orcs are dumb stereotype you can't let go off)

Off topic. I remember fun thing - when Garrosh fought Varian in Ulduar patch cinematic and Panda Guy Monk (forgot his name sorry) in SoO patch cinematic they both (Varian and Panda Guy) pretty easy provoked Garrosh to stupidly charge at them.





Garrosh was idiot and had big anger issues. I really liked Varian's line there.

Varian - You want my blood? Come then dog.
Garrosh barks and charge.

[omeomorfismo]

Depends.

If Varian splits Shalamayne and dual wields, Grom loses. A massive battleaxe is no match for the precision of two one-handed swords, especially with someone as strategic and experienced as Varian.

If Varian doesn't split Shalamayne, Grom overpowers him and ultimately wins.

when dual wielding become something precise? lulz

[OIS]

Are you serious? Varian swooped his ass in Wolfheart - if not Kor'Krom bodyguard Garrosh would bite the dust there.

He had Goldrinn's stamina buff. Garrosh was eventually tired out, it's hardly a fair fight. Garrosh had the upper hand in Tides of War, what's your point?

[Bumbac]

Hmm they both killed huge demon and sacrificed themselves doing so to free their own people.

Why are they fighting against each other again? They should be drinking beer together in Skyhold and having a good time.

[sarkayan]

One of them alone killed a gigantic, GIGANTIC demon robot thing, fought against the legion army to the death. The other one could not dodge an explosion.

[Jorah]

He had Goldrinn's stamina buff. Garrosh was eventually tired out, it's hardly a fair fight. Garrosh had the upper hand in Tides of War, what's your point?

Yes he had Goldrinn's Blessing so what? It's part of his character and his power. Its not like he found it on the side of a road.

[OIS]

Yes he had Goldrinn's Blessing so what? It's part of his character and his power. Its not like he found it on the side of a road.

Does this hold any relevance in a versus? We're not discussing character here, only strength. If you count Goldrinn's blessing on Varian's side you have to bring something else for Garrosh to balance it out, otherwise it will only confirm your bias.

[Terongor]

Grom defeated Mannoroth due to 2 lucky, out of sight shots.

Grom also had needed an ARMY Of Fel Orcs to kick Cenarius' ass.

Varian defeating Onyxia in 1v1 Combat (Read the Comics), and he's defeated Demons, monsters, and 1 shotted a Fel-reaver built by near unbreakable Fel Steel.

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Same comic which had me'dan story which makes that when me'dan is not canon so isn't how varian defeated onyxia. Also we can say that the Fel reaver which Varian killed was also a lucky shot.

Also Cenarius had alot forces which where blessed by his magic when Grom defeated him. Lets take account for numbers Warsong clan whiches number had dwilled over the years and most of their females left behind probably on Draenor and we have no knowledge if they took any more to them before thb and they fough many years gorilla warfare againts humans. Cenarius had support of Night elves which had have 10k time to breed and grow their numbers in time of prosperity also he had forrest spirits like treants and ancients on his side and huge number of warsong warriors had died on innitial attack of cenarius. Which makes grom hellscream and warsong remnants againts huge hoast of night elves, ancients and Cenarius. Also those night elves forces had experience atleast worth 1k years. They also had all strategic advantages when fighting in Ashenvale. Also all metal machines has weak part which usually all weaker than normal demon flesh also the part which Varian struck had gold collour on it and demon metals don't have gold collour and gold is extremely weak metal so and during Wota dungeon mannoroth defences physical where nearly impregnable until we through Varo'then sword at him which had been made with power of the well of eternity if I remember correctly.

Also if there two layers of different metal smelted on each other and not mixed like bronze both of those lose much of their structural integrity and if you can piers the first layer second layer already suffers alot of damgage from that too so even if behind that gold was nearly indestructible demonic metal is strugtutal integrity shatter almost completely when Varian pierced the gold part making it nearly as sofy as gold.

[frogger237]

Grom fought humans for 20 years and lived right under their nose. He has way more experience fighting humans than Varian has against Orcs.

You do realize the lore world is bigger than in game world right? Hell there have been Japanese holdouts from WWII on small islands able to evade people for 5-50 years. Doesn't mean he experienced killing humans all that time.

[Terongor]

You do realize the lore world is bigger than in game world right? Hell there have been Japanese holdouts from WWII on small islands able to evade people for 5-50 years. Doesn't mean he experienced killing humans all that time.

Well all of them where experts those japanese soldiers where pretty much experts they claimed alot of lives during 5-50 years which where people armed with guns and experienced enough to know how to use them effectly. Also Warsong probably had their number thined alot during those years because orcs don't live very long and most of their warriors only where stranded on azeroth so probably most females left on dranor and they suffered alot casualties and losses before they faced Cenarius which had on his night elves armies, treants and ancient proctertors and they devasted warsong ranks before they gained the demon empoweredment so that was warsong warband (with with no huge replenishment troops they probably suffered more losses then gained during those gorilla warfare years.) Vs night elve army with help treants, ancients and cenarius so they easily had more experience, numbers and strategic advantages in ashenvale. By all accounts There was no chance Warsong could have won Cenariuses armys

And because of the number advantages we don't know for sure if Grom 1v1 him or ganked him.

[Jorah]

Does this hold any relevance in a versus? We're not discussing character here, only strength. If you count Goldrinn's blessing on Varian's side you have to bring something else for Garrosh to balance it out, otherwise it will only confirm your bias.

Why should i bring something for Garrosh? Varian got blessing because Goldrinn felt he was worth it. He managed to control his inner rage (what is pretty great talent for warrior) and channel it for battle. Remove it from Varian or give something to other combatant because its unfair is lame argument. Its like saying let's remove Light power from paladin in fight against warrior because its unfair.

Compare to orc's demon blood Varian earned Goldrinn's blessing through hard work (by being great warrior and calming his inner rage).

[Syegfryed]

Are you serious? Varian swooped his ass in Wolfheart - if not Kor'Krom bodyguard Garrosh would bite the dust there.

because he was buffed by a will god and Garrosh was tired, this part you guys always forget right?

Off topic. I remember fun thing - when Garrosh fought Varian in Ulduar patch cinematic and Panda Guy Monk (forgot his name sorry) in SoO patch cinematic they both (Varian and Panda Guy) pretty easy provoked Garrosh to stupidly charge at them.

Garrosh was idiot and had big anger issues. I really liked Varian's line there.

Varian - You want my blood? Come then dog.
Garrosh barks and charge.

so you are implying just because he charge to attack he is stupid? charge first give you the advantage of the attack, wtf, about anger issues read the tides of war book when varian got saved by the ship cracking

an this is rly funny, we are talking about how Varian and Garrosh are almost Equal when Grom is far superior than Garrosh, then obviously he is superior than varian

easy math

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Yes he had Goldrinn's Blessing so what? It's part of his character and his power. Its not like he found it on the side of a road.

it was not his power, was a power of a wild god on him

[Tripzzz]

Varian wins. His goldrinn power up + his skills as a warrior + his versatile weapon(can change from 2 hander to dual wielding in an instant) give him the edge.

[OIS]

Why should i bring something for Garrosh? Varian got blessing because Goldrinn felt he was worth it. He managed to control his inner rage (what is pretty great talent for warrior) and channel it for battle. Remove it from Varian or give something to other combatant because its unfair is lame argument. Its like saying let's remove Light power from paladin in fight against warrior because its unfair.

Compare to orc's demon blood Varian earned Goldrinn's blessing through hard work (by being great warrior and calming his inner rage).

Because it's not Varian's power, it's Goldrinn's. Nobody's talking about whether Varian is worthy of it or not. The source of that power is Goldrinn, and since Goldrinn is a seperate entity from Varian, you can't give him all the credit. Same reason why we don't count Y'shaarj's powers as Garrosh's own.

It's not like Varian is the only warrior who has managed to control his inner rage. Grom can do it too, you know.

[Caerule]

I'd love for Grommash Hellscream to win... But I doubt it.

Varian's stamina has already been mentioned. Demon-blooded Grommash has strength advantage. But that was also "Idiot Grom". Grom's will is iron, but when hopped up on fel, he wasn't using it. He fought on instinct. It was only later in life that his will began reasserting itself and he could refuse the call of fel.

Demon-corrupted orcs fighting on instinct is nothing new to Varian. If Garrosh couldn't win; an orc with an actually cunning mind as well as strength, Grom won't make it either. Maybe in a round 2. But not in a Death Battle.

Still a close fight though. It'd be one hell of a battle to watch. Wouldn't be over quick.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I'd love for Grommash Hellscream to win... But I doubt it.

Varian's stamina has already been mentioned. Demon-blooded Grommash has strength advantage. But that was also "Idiot Grom". Grom's will is iron, but when hopped up on fel, he wasn't using it. He fought on instinct. It was only later in life that his will began reasserting itself and he could refuse the call of fel.

Demon-corrupted orcs fighting on instinct is nothing new to Varian. If Garrosh couldn't win; an orc with an actually cunning mind as well as strength, Grom won't make it either. Maybe in a round 2. But not in a Death Battle.

Still a close fight though. It'd be one hell of a battle to watch. Wouldn't be over quick.

In books shown from his point of view, he was able to control the demon blood and still use husband mind to fight though...

[Caerule]

Because it's not Varian's power, it's Goldrinn's. Nobody's talking about whether Varian is worthy of it or not. The source of that power is Goldrinn, and since Goldrinn is a seperate entity from Varian, you can't give him all the credit. Same reason why we don't count Y'shaarj's powers as Garrosh's own.

It's not like Varian is the only warrior who has managed to control his inner rage. Grom can do it too, you know.

That's a difficult discussion. I mean, can we throw Tirion into one of these Death Battles, but say "But remove his Light from him, because that power is not his own"?

I think it's more useful to take opponents in their "normal" state of being. Their normal peak.

If you take Tirion's Light away, he's just an olderly human knight. I don't think that encompasses all of him. Similarly, I don't think you can remove Varian's divine empowerment from the equation.

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In books shown from his point of view, he was able to control the demon blood and still use husband mind to fight though...

Which book was this? I'm not asking as criticism. I just only recall him able to do so around the time he met Thrall. Not during the siege of Shattrath, hopped up on demon blood. But I admit I may be wrong. I've not read that book in a good time. That's just what I recall.

[Friendlyimmolation]

That's a difficult discussion. I mean, can we throw Tirion into one of these Death Battles, but say "But remove his Light from him, because that power is not his own"?

I think it's more useful to take opponents in their "normal" state of being. Their normal peak.

If you take Tirion's Light away, he's just an olderly human knight. I don't think that encompasses all of him. Similarly, I don't think you can remove Varian's divine empowerment from the equation.

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Which book was this? I'm not asking as criticism. I just only recall him able to do so around the time he met Thrall. Not during the siege of Shattrath, hopped up on demon blood. But I admit I may be wrong. I've not read that book in a good time. That's just what I recall.

Beyond the dark portal or tides of war. I don't remember it all, just the part where he fought, and hanged his fighting styles mid fight depending on how his opponent reacted