What the hell is happening with the video-game market?

[LoLcano]

This is why i pirate every game that have no interesting online feature . then later on when games are on their real price ( +70% off with all "dlc" ) i buy them for my collection .

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Try using actual arguments dude, rather than acting like this.



Clearly popular opinion proves otherwise, and yet again, the average price of a AAA game.



Not really, but nice try. Not sure how you get "Gambling!" out of "Play the game and ignore the cash shop".



Clearly you haven't played much then, since they upped the amount of coins you get from coin chests.



Except you're screwed if your favorite free heroes rotate out, or are nerfed to oblivion. Or when you want to play competitively, but you need certain characters for each role because they're the strongest. (and then they proceed to get nerfed to oblivion because they're too strong!)



And oddly enough, Overwatch will still be around in another year or two, with more characters added. Where will Battlefield be at that point? On a completely different sequel that you have to fork over $60 for?




Says the one who tried starting off their post with-


yeah, forgive me if I don't take your word for granted.

Awww, someone can't handle getting their buttons pushed. Cute.

I knocked down every one of your points without error and with little effort and basically each and every one of your responses in turn were, "I'm going to shimmy over here to the left just a bit and dodge the actual core argument to save myself the trouble." You're being intentionally obtuse and then wonder why someone might want to poke fun at you.

Now you're boring me. Congratulations. Rather than quote your spiel again and go back for another lap I think I'll conclude our argument on this note: You're a masochistic apologist. Dime a dozen. It gets old contending with your irrelevant and pointless defense that sounds worse than what even a sleazy, poorly prepared company representative can produce.

We're done here.

[GennGreymane]

A whole 6 hours of it.
Maybe 15 if you replay for perfection.
https://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=38001



It really depends on the game.

Something like LoL? I would say yes, it's on the game design, because "speeding the game up" would actually benefit you far better because you can get more characters, which when it comes to MOBAs, more options is always better.

When said reward is purely cosmetic? That's on you if you feel the need to have it "now". And I'm guilty of that myself, like how I "needed" the Junkenstein skin. It's not Blizzard's fault for making a skin that I happened to love, it's mine if I decide to fork out money to try and get that skin faster.

You are aware it is designed that way yes?

[Deleted]

Our wallets happened :3

[Jester Joe]

Awww, someone can't handle getting their buttons pushed. Cute.

I knocked down every one of your points without error and with little effort and basically each and every one of your responses in turn were, "I'm going to shimmy over here to the left just a bit and dodge the actual core argument to save myself the trouble." You're being intentionally obtuse and then wonder why someone might want to poke fun at you.

Now you're boring me. Congratulations. Rather than quote your spiel again and go back for another lap I think I'll conclude our argument on this note: You're a masochistic apologist. Dime a dozen. It gets old contending with your irrelevant and pointless defense that sounds worse than what even a sleazy, poorly prepared company representative can produce.

We're done here.

You literally accomplished nothing.

You ignored my point about this being better than TF2. You ignored me repeatedly telling you about how all content in OW is free, while you continued to bark about how great Battlefield is despite you needing to pay for new content. You tried to justify LoL's money scheme, and then ignore my rebuttal about it.

Hell, you even claimed you're getting "less coins since the last update", I tell you they UPPED the coins you can get, and you proceed to ignore that also. I think that proves enough here who's actually knocking down points here.

Literally all you did accomplish, was handwave. You handwaved every single point I said while going "bubbububut BATTLEFIELD!11!!!". And then you retorted to ad hominids, and apparently you cannot take being called out on that, so instead you just shove your fingers in your ear and claim you're right?

Okay then, if that's "winning" to you. Keep ignoring what's being said, but that's not "knocking down points".

You are aware it is designed that way yes?

yes, and that's part of why I won't touch it. I won't spend days on end complaining about it either, because it doesn't affect me, but LoL is ridiculously expensive to get into. Compare that to something like Smite, that you can just pay a flat fee of $30-40 and have all characters that will ever be released, it's just a bit gross to me that LoL would rather just sell boost items.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

You literally accomplished nothing.

You ignored my point about this being better than TF2. You ignored me repeatedly telling you about how all content in OW is free, while you continued to bark about how great Battlefield is despite you needing to pay for new content. You tried to justify LoL's money scheme, and then ignore my rebuttal about it.

Hell, you even claimed you're getting "less coins since the last update", I tell you they UPPED the coins you can get, and you proceed to ignore that also. I think that proves enough here who's actually knocking down points here.

Literally all you did accomplish, was handwave. You handwaved every single point I said while going "bubbububut BATTLEFIELD!11!!!". And then you retorted to ad hominids, and apparently you cannot take being called out on that, so instead you just shove your fingers in your ear and claim you're right?

Okay then, if that's "winning" to you. Keep ignoring what's being said, but that's not "knocking down points".

Yaaawwwwwwwn. More inane prattling that does nothing to actually establish a real defense.

- - - Updated - - -

You are aware it is designed that way yes?

You know, because it had no upfront cost. It's almost like they cleverly built a cash shop with some benefit to the player!

The irony is, in the end, it got far more time played and more money spent by yours truly than Overwatch did who went for the metaphorical throat from the outset. I loved League. You know, until the toxicity finally caused me to choke, die and float away only to be resuscitated.

Had a hard time returning to it after that.

[Jester Joe]

Yaaawwwwwwwn. More inane prattling that does nothing to actually establish a real defense.

"Here's all these things you ignored"

You're not helping yourself here.

[GennGreymane]

yes, and that's part of why I won't touch it. I won't spend days on end complaining about it either, because it doesn't affect me, but LoL is ridiculously expensive to get into. Compare that to something like Smite, that you can just pay a flat fee of $30-40 and have all characters that will ever be released, it's just a bit gross to me that LoL would rather just sell boost items.

Oh, but it does affect you.

"I won't buy loot boxes in Overwatch"
*now even single player games have loot boxes*

"I don't feel the need to buy this to speed up the game"
*games designed to be more grindy and tedious to nudge you to buy the premium currency*

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

"Here's all these things you ignored"

You're not helping yourself here.

You defeated yourself with the earlier response. I knew you wouldn't concede, nor will you, so why bother? I told you very early on, we're at an impasse. You didn't accept that.

[Acelius]

As long as people keep buying it, companies will keep doing it. It only works to speak with your wallet but people don't seem to be too bothered with it.

[GennGreymane]

Yaaawwwwwwwn. More inane prattling that does nothing to actually establish a real defense.

- - - Updated - - -



You know, because it had no upfront cost. It's almost like they cleverly built a cash shop with some benefit to the player!

The irony is, in the end, it got far more time played and more money spent by yours truly than Overwatch did who went for the metaphorical throat from the outset. I loved League. You know, until the toxicity finally caused me to choke, die and float away only to be resuscitated.

Had a hard time returning to it after that.

Its why mobile games are huge cash cows. I know three people who spent over 500 dollars US on pokemon go.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I blame the people who preorder months or a year out, I blame people who take part in EAs, I blame people who buy lock boxes, I blame ANYONE who buys a UBIsoft game on release(they are great at selling a MVP then selling you the rest of the game over the next 6 months). I stopped buying any game that has a season pass sale months before the game comes out.

I wish they would just go back to shipping full games and charge 80-90 bucks. as is they charge 60 for half a game a lot of the time. XPacks are the norm now, except they are selling content that should be in the base game. Ghost Recon shipped with NO PvP, like wtf for real? But they sold it for 20 bucks a few months down the line. There are some folks making proper games still Horizon ZD was proper, the Dark Souls guys ship proper games, aside from buggy launches Bethsaida ships feature complete games and sells proper Xpacks.

I don't know if it's fair to blame people who buy ea games I mean I really hate ea but I still bought dead space 3 as I love the world and franchises and I didn't want it to go under like it did. I'd be happy to suffer any scummy treatment if it keeps a title i love alive if that's it's only option.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Its why mobile games are huge cash cows. I know three people who spent over 500 dollars US on pokemon go.

I can't speak for Pokemon Go. Never got into mobile games myself.

League I felt was a fair trade though. Get in free. Have a few unlocked upfront. You also get your rotation of free heroes to test and try out new ones without purchase for X amount of time. Then you go and buy what you want, directly, should you choose. Want Y hero? Get them! Want Z skin? Knock yourself out. It wasn't all buried in a bullshit gambling scheme designed to fuck you over and make you keep forking out for that special something.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Honestly? I'm leaning towards stepping out of the hobby entirely. As much as I love games, they're becoming too expensive for too little and the worst part is all anyone seems to be able to do is make excuses for their shitty value propositions. It's getting too hard picking and choosing now that the market has become so saturated with absolute shit. All it's done is serve to frustrate and disappoint me.

Jt may have been hyperbolic and disingenuous with his argument in another thread but a part of me is almost at that point where I will end up resorting to these extreme absolutes if not take it a step further than that. Because people will continue to make excuses, apologize and it'll only get worse and worse from here on out as it's been doing for the past several years. Where does it stop? When does it stop?

The answer: Never.

You should just do what I do and ignore any main stream game so far this year the only new game I bought at full price was dinvity original sin 2. Hell I like the game so much I bought it twice one normal version so I could play on launch and a collectors edition, I'm going to give the game code to a friend.

- - - Updated - - -

Name a single game that doesn't have a cash shop that also gets free support after launch. I'll wait on that. Or hell, if it's so common, name several. Show how "common" this is.

And that is exactly what the cosmetics do, they sustain future development. Why does it really matter to you if the base game came with no cosmetics? (which, by the way, only the $40 version doesn't, the $60 ones all come with several Origins skins, and now also 10 loot boxes).

You're getting mad/bashing a game for doing exactly what is needed to sustain the game in the long run, while admitting they need something to sustain the game.

Terraria has been getting free updates for year and years some of them massive. Divinity original sin got a full remaster free to every one who owned the game already.

[IIamaKing]

I don't know if it's fair to blame people who buy ea games I mean I really hate ea but I still bought dead space 3 as I love the world and franchises and I didn't want it to go under like it did. I'd be happy to suffer any scummy treatment if it keeps a title i love alive if that's it's only option.

By EA I meant Early Access, not Electronic Arts, though those fucks do also have some shady practices these days.

[Schattenlied]

@ the OP: I agree with everything.

I think the people who build them deserved to be paid.

They chose to mod knowing it would be free before hand, they only deserve to be paid if they go into it expecting pay, they didn't. Modding has never been about making money, it's about sharing your love of the game with the game's community, and making tweaks/additions to the game that you feel make it better, and sharing those with the community. It's a hobby, not a job, like a hobbyist artist that just makes stuff and posts it online for everyone to see, they do it because they like doing it, not because they expect to be paid... If you want to make games and content for games and make money from it, there's already a job for that, it's called being a fucking game developer.

The people who made the Project Reality mods for Battlefield 2 and Arma 2, they decided they wanted to be paid for it... did they start demanding money for their mod? No, they went and made a game studio, and made their own game, Squad.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

This individual you're struggling with has a track record for being... "special". He gets a notion in his head, and no matter how rational or logical you are, he's going to stonewall you with his "u r a hypocrit" nonsense. Don't worry, though, he's the type to play on Easy mode and expect Hard mode rewards. That should give you insight into his thought process. +1 Wisdom for ignoring him.

I also bought DOOM, and I don't support the "mother company's" tactics. No Man's Sky and Star Wars: Battlefront were prime examples of how these big companies pass off bullshit for a finished product up-to-and-including some blatant lies during the hype phase, ultimately deceiving cutomers into buying shit. What gets me, is people white knight this sort of marketing. If you're on Facebook, go to ANY advertisement for an upcoming AAA title. Take Destiny 2 for example. You'll have people commenting: "Sorry Bungie, but your first product released was riddled with poor business tactics and ultimately didn't meet the expectation the first Destiny was marketed as. You won't be getting my business on Destiny 2." and then someone will respond to his comment with "HURR DURR BYE THEN LOSER, YOU WON'T BE MISSED AND BUNGIE DUN CARE BOUT UR $60 BYE FELICIA" This, to me, just shows how brainwashed some gamers are. Instead of actually realizing the poor practices, they just spout off some ignorant gibberish to white-knight the practice of Bait & Switch. As if to enjoy getting bent over and taken for your money.

I don't mind people just being honest and blurt out, "Fuck it. I like it that much that I am willing to eat crow." Fair enough. However, don't act like I'm crazy or out of line when I point out the obvious elephant in the room. Don't sit here, staring at literal gambling systems, in your games and argue that they're somehow not or that everyone should have your same sense of constitution. In other words, just don't blow smoke up my ass and we're good. Even if I think your purchasing habits are shallow and shitty. It's not like I've never bought something that could be considered questionable.

[Jester Joe]

Oh, but it does affect you.

"I won't buy loot boxes in Overwatch"
*now even single player games have loot boxes*

"I don't feel the need to buy this to speed up the game"
*games designed to be more grindy and tedious to nudge you to buy the premium currency*

So are you blaming LoL for that or something? You're confusing me by jumping to something completely different.

Loot boxes for cosmetics doesn't give an advantage, boosts/outright buying stuff in LoL does.

You defeated yourself with the earlier response. I knew you wouldn't concede, nor will you, so why bother? I told you very early on, we're at an impasse. You didn't accept that.

I didn't defeat myself with anything. And there's a difference between "why bother" and you acting like you somehow won every single statement when you did absolutely nothing to address these points.

-Battlefield still sells DLC for content, and will sell another game at some point which you'll have to buy, meanwhile Overwatch is completely free because of the in game cash shop.

-LoL is even worse with an in game cash shop, because it gives such a ridiculous advantage, so it's odd to claim how bad OW is while saying LoL is fine just because "the game is made to violate your wallet".

-You claimed OW is just proof that it's going downhill from here, while I pointed out it's actually going UPhill from loot crates/gambling like TF2

-Everything is still unlockable in game, unlike TF2 and other games loot crates, yet you feel the need to target Overwatch specifically and not the rest.


I mean, if you really, REALLY hate the cash shop that much, and would rather pay for DLC, that's completely on you. But that doesn't mean the method Overwatch uses is some horrible monster, Satan incarnate.

It just means YOU don't like it. It still is far more fair than most, and while it could use improvements, that's exactly what Blizzard has been doing since day 1. They've been adding more ways to get loot boxes, they've been adding more modes/maps to play to keep it fresh, they've adjusted loot boxes so you don't get as many duplicates nonstop (which helps when events roll around, so if you have a decent amount of legendaries, you should be getting event ones more often).

And yet again, that rubs me the wrong way that people are hating on the companies that are actually trying.

[GennGreymane]

@ the OP: I agree with everything.




They chose to mod knowing it would be free before hand, they only deserve to be paid if they go into it expecting pay, they didn't. Modding has never been about making money, it's about sharing your love of the game with the game's community, and making tweaks/additions to the game that you feel make it better, and sharing those with the community. It's a hobby, not a job, like a hobbyist artist that just makes stuff and posts it online for everyone to see, they do it because they like doing it, not because they expect to be paid... If you want to make games and content for games and make money from it, there's already a job for that, it's called being a fucking game developer.

But then it all changed, when the Youtubers attacked and made money off of their work.

[Viikkis]

It's because corporations have learned that people will pay no matter what. If everyone stopped buying early access games and demanded full games instead of DLC packs surely they would change their way. They simply want to make money and if we are foolish enough to pay for unfinished products why should they care?

Everything was awesome before because the technology wasn't there. When you had SNES you couldn't download game patches... no. Games had to be finished when they reached the customers.