Will Malfurion and Illidan ever meet this expansion?

[Beloren]

Given the *spoilers* i really doubt it. Then again, i would love if malfy developed "Are you watching illidan ?" tic. Like having some fun with tyrande and just yelling "Are you watching illidan ?

but the vibe should be that of a loving brother who knows his sibling twin all too well. But Mal needs a moment with Illidan when they recognise they misjudged him in several areas and how they view him now in light of what they now know to be true.

Also these truths should have huge ramifications for the night elves going further and their perceptions of their past and their attitudes to themselves and magic. Shouldn't it lift a lot of the burdens and shame they have felt over their empire and their relationship to magic?

Especially now night elven arcane addiction is curable. And they clearly have both the knowledge and wisdom to use magic in balance whether arcane night elf/borne or not and now they know their magic and the Well was not the motive of the demon horror invasion - and that Azeroth was a prime target the legion would have found eventually and in a weird way the way it happened made it possible to actually defeat them. It should change a huge lot. Especially having both Suramar back and the Tomb of Sargeras/Cathedral idf Eternal Night. Their most holy site after the Well fully cleared and recoverable.

But doubt you'll see any of that

[Qualia]

They never worked together if im correct since he became supersayian demon. Not even spend time in presence of one another. Also, people change.

It's true that people change over time, but it rarely happens that rapidly. The thing is that Malfurion's personality has been more or less the same since WoTA until Vanilla (which is around 10 years ago in WoW timeline). There hasn't been any indication that he had a change of heart whatsoever in story, neither was there any drastic event between the two brothers since then. Thus, that change of heart'd be something virtually coming out of nowhere - why would he suddenly change his opinion (that Fel is bad and Illidan is too reckless to be trustworthy) within a few weeks / months at most (the duration of Legion) if he has been fixed in his way for 10,000+ years? If anything, the only realistic possibility for Malfurion to change his opinion in regards to Illidan would be if the later unexpectedly sacrifice his own life (or attempt to) to save the druid.

As long as the two brothers don't change their personalities and opinions, their reunion would be consist of awkward silence at best, and another full of drama / tension at worst (with Illidan mockingly taunt Malfurion that Illidan's path was the right one after all, while Malfurion grumpily tell Illidan that he will be watching his demonic brother closely so don't try anything funny). Given that it's not really time for that, both of them actively trying to ignore each others sounds like a good choice from them.

[Aliven]

It's true that people change over time, but it rarely happens that rapidly. The thing is that Malfurion's personality has been more or less the same since WoTA until Vanilla (which is around 10 years ago in WoW timeline). There hasn't been any indication that he had a change of heart whatsoever in story, neither was there any drastic event between the two brothers since then. Thus, that change of heart'd be something virtually coming out of nowhere - why would he suddenly change his opinion (that Fel is bad and Illidan is too reckless to be trustworthy) within a few weeks / months at most (the duration of Legion) if he has been fixed in his way for 10,000+ years? If anything, the only realistic possibility for Malfurion to change his opinion in regards to Illidan would be if the later unexpectedly sacrifice his own life (or attempt to) to save the druid.

As long as the two brothers don't change their personalities and opinions, their reunion would be consist of awkward silence at best, and another full of drama / tension at worst (with Illidan mockingly taunt Malfurion that Illidan's path was the right one after all, while Malfurion grumpily tell Illidan that he will be watching his demonic brother closely so don't try anything funny). Given that it's not really time for that, both of them actively trying to ignore each others sounds like a good choice from them.

Malf slept for most of those 10k years.

Also i told that both will grown. What you wrote is just a bad character who is stale and dont change no matter what.

Tyrande good, Illidan bad.

And hell, they can explore that and give Malfurion growth even in hating Illidan to the point that he can actually try to kill him just for the sake of sparing world another demonic entity.

But instead we have Malfurion whos whole character arc with Illidan is - i dont like you, go away or somebody lock him up.

[Qualia]

Malf slept for most of those 10k years.
Also i told that both will grown. What you wrote is just a bad character who is stale and dont change no matter what.
Tyrande good, Illidan bad.
And hell, they can explore that and give Malfurion growth even in hating Illidan to the point that he can actually try to kill him just for the sake of sparing world another demonic entity.
But instead we have Malfurion whos whole character arc with Illidan is - i dont like you, go away or somebody lock him up.

The issue with Malfurion is that his character has already been developed clearly before Legion over a number of expansions and novels. His personalities, relationships, circumstances, point of views, plots, etc. - are well established over many events. When someone whose personality is that clearly described, suddenly force him to do what he would never do normally is NOT always a good thing. Good character developments are meant to be natural and realistic. Changing just for the sake of introducing changes to the plot, in other word, forced development, isn't. Obviously, people do grow up, but it doesn't happen within matter of days (or few short weeks) and it certainly doesn't happen on someone so fixed on his path without any drastic event (which we have none). If Blizzard is to change Malfurion point of view - whether to make him a lot more forgiving / accepting towards Illidan, or the other way around, have him go full out antagonistic / murderous against Illidan, they either would need to do it gradually, or slam a massive event that can shake Malfurion's beliefs to the core. None of that happened, so it'd be unnatural for Malfurion to suddenly change.

Additionally, a character does NOT have to change to be good. There are many characters who remain the same throughout stories - Sherlock Holmes is one, for example. They are called static characters, not stale / flat, and they more or less stick to their established personalities and traits through and through. Not that I'm saying that Malfurion is a great character - he isn't (in fact, he isn't even a main character in our current storyline / arc for that matter), but introducing changes isn't always necessary and forced development is bad. If Blizzard are to keep Malfurion true to his character, they can have the brothers having an awkward meeting which lead to their cooperation, then give us a quest chain in which Malfurion started to open his mind - but that isn't a must. Too much work, for too little gain in story (not to mention these quests would be very difficult to design). Without that, there logically wouldn't be much interaction between Malfurion and Illidan, neither of them hate the other that much, but they aren't fond of each other either, after all.

[Volardelis]

Malfurion and Illidan left on somewhat good terms after Illidan saved Tyrande from the scourge. I don't think a meeting between them is needed. Unlike Illidan and Maiev, which we got in CoEN

[Deleted]

Malfurion is supposed to be the most powerful mortal but in game he acts more like a damsel in distress. He is the Corki of Legion.

On topic yeah I would love to see a reunion between the brothers but without the drama of love triangle.

[Deleted]

The issue with Malfurion is that his character has already been developed clearly before Legion over a number of expansions and novels. His personalities, relationships, circumstances, point of views, plots, etc. - are well established over many events. When someone whose personality is that clearly described, suddenly force him to do what he would never do normally is NOT always a good thing. Good character developments are meant to be natural and realistic. Changing just for the sake of introducing changes to the plot, in other word, forced development, isn't. Obviously, people do grow up, but it doesn't happen within matter of days (or few short weeks) and it certainly doesn't happen on someone so fixed on his path without any drastic event (which we have none). If Blizzard is to change Malfurion point of view - whether to make him a lot more forgiving / accepting towards Illidan, or the other way around, have him go full out antagonistic / murderous against Illidan, they either would need to do it gradually, or slam a massive event that can shake Malfurion's beliefs to the core. None of that happened, so it'd be unnatural for Malfurion to suddenly change.

Additionally, a character does NOT have to change to be good. There are many characters who remain the same throughout stories - Sherlock Holmes is one, for example. They are called static characters, not stale / flat, and they more or less stick to their established personalities and traits through and through. Not that I'm saying that Malfurion is a great character - he isn't (in fact, he isn't even a main character in our current storyline / arc for that matter), but introducing changes isn't always necessary and forced development is bad. If Blizzard are to keep Malfurion true to his character, they can have the brothers having an awkward meeting which lead to their cooperation, then give us a quest chain in which Malfurion started to open his mind - but that isn't a must. Too much work, for too little gain in story (not to mention these quests would be very difficult to design). Without that, there logically wouldn't be much interaction between Malfurion and Illidan, neither of them hate the other that much, but they aren't fond of each other either, after all.

You are right, but on the other hand, how are the assault from the Legion and our following attack on Argus not a massive event to change some people's minds?

Beside that, they have presented both Malfurion and Tyrande extremely disappointing in the game. They behaved worse than some brainless teenagers, not like the millennia old beings they should be.

[shinyteethqt]

Malfurion comes to Argus to alert the alliance.

They embrace as Illidan has chosen to stay as the the jail keeper for sargeras.... and malfurion whispers "that'll do pig, that'll do"

[Claymore]

What exactly do you want? All they'd be doing is talking, bickering, perhaps seeing eye to eye a bit after the events of Val'Sharah.
This kind of NPC one-on-one that doesn't impact the story or explain -why- us the players are doing what we're doing are things best left to the books and short stories, other forms of media.
Kinda like the whole event after SoO and the aftermath was left inside a book. Blizzard knows they have a lore-hungry market within the fanbase who enjoy reading, and they provide reading material.
I mean I'm not crapping on the notion of the two interacting at some point, but I don't need it to be in-game imo. But it most likely will happen if it does during the proposed 1-2 mini story patches after Argus.

And I don't know why so many people ignore WoWs lore yet enjoy the game. Always kinda think "wait...what?" When I'm in discord and someone's like "who's this EE-SIR-UH dragon over here?" Or "talk to the Mage dude"... Khadgar??!?

With all due respect, I would disagree.

Most players enjoy those inter-personal scenes. Scenes are what make a plot into a story. Hell, look at Kil'jaeden's death scene with Velen; not necessary whatsoever, but a lot of players loved that; I'd even argue that players would rather have more of *those* kinds of scene, than just "plot developments".

It's something that, overall, Legion has been much better about. When Illidan and Velen arrive to Argus, you really see the *characters* interacting, instead of just "X plot device happened, go fix it". People *want* to see the characters we know and (sometimes) love interacting with each other. It's what spices things up, and it would be nice if you saw more than *just* personal vendettas.

For example, what do Tyrande and Genn Greymane think about each other? How would Sylvanas interact with Jaina or Anduin? Players are hungry for the "big" meetups -- the Windrunner sisters all meeting up, or the Night Elves' leaders with Illidan -- but you also have to have those other scenes to establish context.

Sylvanas might feel betrayed by Vereesa, while Alleria -- now wielding Void powers -- might understand her plight a bit more, and encourage some peace between them. But really, what good would that be if we don't see or understand how Sylvanas treats characters she *doesn't* have a personal connection with? What is her relationship like with Thrall or Baine? Does she treat the Horde as servants, cannon-fodder, or with actual concern?

Even scenes of "just talking" can help establish the context of the game's world, and give us more insight into how things might play out. Most players really don't need (or in some cases, even *want*) personal motivations for their character. Most are driven by the overarching narrative, and given how many players follow WoW's lore because of how much they enjoyed WC3's story, I think it's safe to say that taking some time to actually put the "story" front-and-center is a safe bet.

[Frontenac]

Malfurion and Illidan left on somewhat good terms after Illidan saved Tyrande from the scourge. I don't think a meeting between them is needed. Unlike Illidan and Maiev, which we got in CoEN

Exactly. Malfurion and Illidan are still not loving brothers, but Malfurion does not hate Illidan anymore. When we meet him in Vanilla, you can see that he feels pity towards Illidan. When they parted in Frozen Throne, Malfurion made only one threat: if Illidan was to put the world at risk again, he would act against him (probably kill him). Since Illidan has not put the world in danger (yet), there is no reason for Malfurion to intervene. That being said, I would like some comment on Illidan from Malfurion when this is all over.

Also, Malfurion does not have to apologize to Illidan. It's not because Illidan is now helping us that all actions made against him in the past were not justified.

[Adoxe]

Spoilers for ending of Legion and this subject:

[Qualia]

Oh my, I am already seeing people being mad at Illidan's speech and screaming that he was doing things for his own gains instead of to protect the world, or how he's too full of himself while telling us that our doings rival his own Blizzard doing white-washing, etc. etc.

That asides, I guess this is the most peaceful way for the brothers and Tyrande to settle their things. I was saying that only a big enough event can change Malfurion's opinion of Illidan (and Illidan's way), and this is one. While it'd be awkward originally, as Tyrande said "I couldn't bring myself to speak to him" - after Illidan sacrificed himself to (assist the Pantheon to?) imprison Sargeras, others can hardly ignore that. Still, even when the things are somewhat settled, they both are still stubbornly sticking to their own choices. Malfurion still considers Illidan's choices selfish and his actions unforgiveable, while Illidan claims that Malfurion just didn't understand his brother.

Edit: put spoiler tag in just in case

[nothingsjim]

Illidan's speech is touching, but the response from Malfurion and Tyrande are just...cold.

Dude, it's your twin brother, and a man who loved you unconditionally for 10 thousand years. Sure he has committed atrocities before, but in the end he sacrificed himself to be the eternal jailer of Sargeras and saved your world. Can't you at least show some more emotion??!!

[Sin Cara]

Illidan's speech is touching, but the response from Malfurion and Tyrande are just...cold.

Dude, it's your twin brother, and a man who loved you unconditionally for 10 thousand years. Sure he has committed atrocities before, but in the end he sacrificed himself to be the eternal jailer of Sargeras and saved your world. Can't you at least show some more emotion??!!

That's the way I felt too. But I can't help but wonder if their reactions are before they hear his final words to them.
If so, it makes me dislike Tyrande and Malfurion even more.

[Frontenac]

Illidan's speech is touching, but the response from Malfurion and Tyrande are just...cold.

Dude, it's your twin brother, and a man who loved you unconditionally for 10 thousand years. Sure he has committed atrocities before, but in the end he sacrificed himself to be the eternal jailer of Sargeras and saved your world. Can't you at least show some more emotion??!!

Tyrande says "Seems he has a duty to fulfill." This is before the raid. Illidan has betrayed them before, so it is normal that they would be cautious about what he's saying. Things could change when Illidan has fulfilled his duty and truly shown that he wanted to save Azeroth.

"Loved him unconditionally?" Maybe. But all those two ever shown to each other is rivalry (Illidan even moreso than Malfurion). And that's all we saw too. Like Illidan said, they were struggling since the womb.

[nothingsjim]

Tyrande says "Seems he has a duty to fulfill." This is before the raid. Illidan has betrayed them before, so it is normal that they would be cautious about what he's saying. Things could change when Illidan has fulfilled his duty and truly shown that he wanted to save Azeroth.

"Loved him unconditionally?" Maybe. But all those two ever shown to each other is rivalry (Illidan even moreso than Malfurion). And that's all we saw too. Like Illidan said, they were struggling since the womb.

"Loved unconditionally" was directed at Tyrande, my bad if I failed to make that clear. There are plenty of rivalry between Malfurion and Illidan, but for Tyrande, Illidan has only love (And some lust) for her.

All conversations take place Post-Argus, where Illidan is already serving as the eternal jailer of Sargeras. So unless Tyrande feels this is just Illidan's plan to gain more power from the imprisoned Sargeras, there's no need to be cautious.

Tragic, really. To have sacrificed everything to stop the Burning Legion, only to have the one woman he loved continue to doubt and distrust him, even at the very end.

[zlygork]

I love how he describes loving in Tyrande everything that he makes fun of Velen for.

[nothingsjim]

I love how he describes loving in Tyrande everything that he makes fun of Velen for.

Well, let's be fair. Tyrande's faith hasn't guide her to flee from her enemy for 10000 years.

[Frontenac]

"Loved unconditionally" was directed at Tyrande, my bad if I failed to make that clear. There are plenty of rivalry between Malfurion and Illidan, but for Tyrande, Illidan has only love (And some lust) for her.

All conversations take place Post-Argus, where Illidan is already serving as the eternal jailer of Sargeras. So unless Tyrande feels this is just Illidan's plan to gain more power from the imprisoned Sargeras, there's no need to be cautious.

Tragic, really. To have sacrificed everything to stop the Burning Legion, only to have the one woman he loved continue to doubt and distrust him, even at the very end.

Tyrande's answer seems to point out that it hasn't happened yet. It is also logical. Why Illidan would have entrusted the Hero with these messages when the Hero is also going to Argus? If the Hero gets killed, who will deliver the messages? It makes more sense to deliver them before the final attack on Argus.

[Wildmoon]

What's wrong with the responses? It would be stupid if they just cry and forgive everything Illidan did. This is the most realistic way to portray this kind of things. In case of Malfurion, you can hear the regret in his voice but he quickly brushes it away and focus on the real important thing which is not his personal feeling but healing the world.