Originally Posted by
Qualia
Firstly, I'd advise you to stop cite Wowpedia and Wowwiki. They aren't from Blizzard, and thus held as much canonical values as my, or your words. The articles were written, and edited by players. In other words, they can be wrong - and in fact, they were wrong a number of times. Quoting them doesn't give you any more credit than just saying your own opinions. The same reason why universities don't accept Wikipedia as a proper source in your research papers, by the way. If you are referring to them (which is fine, as they are a good collection of information after all), make sure to check the sources and cite it properly. Did you miss that I didn't cite any opinion, just the interview or direct page / quote from the game?
Also, just stop using Wowwiki altogether and stick to Wowpedia. The information there was outdated and wrong so many times. There wasn't anything up to debate except the head of whoever wrote that bit of that Wowwiki article when Afrasiabi said - in fact, AFTER he made the statement that Me'dan being Guardian is not canon - that the comics are still canon.
You realized that the cinematics showing things happening to Deathwing and things happening on Azeroth does NOT neccessarily mean the later was direct result of the later, right? It's entirely possible that Deathwing was simply give us a badass boast without the truth in it, just like almost every other bosses, while the scenes showing that for the impact values. Sure, it only means things were uncertain, but then we have the Word of God stating that the Cataclysm happened because of the Old Gods. And as usual, WoG > all by definition. Even if it wasn't true until the moment they said it, the lore have to reshape itself to make it true. Thus, when they say "Because of the Old Gods", it's because of them. No ifs, or buts, unless you are trying to argue against WoG (which then, good luck having anyone with proper knowledge of how to discuss things take you seriously). If you truly don't want to believe it, you are free to bring the issue up to Blizzard and have them refute it - I'll gladly adjust my knowledge just like I did many times when Blizzard decided to change things.
Firstly, I'd advise you to stop cite Wowpedia and Wowwiki. They aren't from Blizzard, and thus held as much canonical values as my, or your words. The articles were written, and edited by players. In other words, they can be wrong - and in fact, they were wrong a number of times. Quoting them doesn't give you any more credit than just saying your own opinions. The same reason why universities don't accept Wikipedia as a proper source in your research papers, by the way. If you are referring to them (which is fine, as they are a good collection of information after all), make sure to check the sources and cite it properly. Did you miss that I didn't cite any opinion, just the interview or direct page / quote from the game?
Also, just stop using Wowwiki altogether and stick to Wowpedia. The information there was outdated and wrong so many times. There wasn't anything up to debate except the head of whoever wrote that bit of that Wowwiki article when Afrasiabi said - in fact, AFTER he made the statement that Me'dan being Guardian is not canon - that the comics are still canon.
Just because it was a concept doesn't mean it will automatically apply to everything. The dead monster was - as you stated, dead. Dead, not alive. It can come back to life, so what? Just for the record in case you aren't aware of, everything in WoW, with the exception of (ironically) the supposedly immortal demons who are killed in the Nether, can come back to life one way or another. Even Medivh who got his head chopped off, his inside burned away completely and left with just ragged skins, could be brought back. It's just the matter of preparing enough energy. However, can come back to life doesn't mean you are not, well, dead. Otherwise, we may pretty much say that everyone who died in WoW with their corpse still intact aren't dead. They technically can still be resurrected if we bother to, see?
The demons weren't considered dead because they can naturally, without anyone helping or any outside interactions, come back by themselves. Again, there hasn't been any indication that the OGs can do the same.
Obviously we do. Keywords: Old Gods' servants. Biased, crazy, and have been wrong multiple times. Unreliable narrator is a thing, and it means that NPC (every NPCs) words aren't always the truth. A threat is even less trustworthy than a normal speech. Otherwise, C'Thun would have stalemated a Titan as said by Prophet Ske'ram (nope). Y'Shaarj would have been beating by mere Mogu as told in their tablets (nope). My friends would have betrayed me and my heart would have exploded during C'Thun's fight (nope). Of course, that's not to say everything NPCs say are falsehood, but their words - both our sides' and the enemies' - aren't always 100% trustworthy. If they conflict with the more meta sources - Blizzard's answer, omniscient narrators in quest texts or comics - obviously you know which will triumph. WoG is a thing.
... So we went from dead, to dead dead? If by dead dead, you meant "will never, and can never come back in anyway" (which is the usual meaning of dead dead / deader than dead), then obviously nothing and no one - including me - has said they are so. We are saying they are dead. Either you are having some issue with reading comprehension, or you are trying to bend your arguments to make it better. So, what is it? Are you arguing that they aren't dead dead and you just misunderstood everyone else (which then we can stop as no one is disagreeing with this), or are you arguing that they aren't dead? Make up your mind.
If you are arguing that they aren't dead, then all the links I put in my previous post - from the in-game texts from the omniscient narrator (in other word, isn't as susceptible to being wrong as an NPC) to out-of-game comics stated so. That they are dead.
The event in Ulduar doesn't mean anything. Dead powerful beings can interact with normal world just fine in WoW, that doesn't make them alive. Y'Shaarj, who was ripped into pieces when Aman'thul plucked him off Azeroth and was stated by Kosak to be "Y'shaarj itself is very, very, very dead", still contaminate Pandaria and spawn Shas (which is pretty much what happens in Ulduar, the Saronite clouds spawned the Echoes - unlike Sha, those were just Echoes, not even living being to begin with). MU Gul'dan, who was only an orc, not even a demon, can still whispers and hold proper two-way conversations with people (which is actually better than the dead OGs repeated whispers). Those aren't the sign of living, or again, we'd have a bunch of dead characters still being alive.
Yet another Timewalking loot post ( As directed by GM)
Opened timewalking Cache before hotfix
Boosting payments.
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See MU Gul'dan for example.
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