Materialism

[Doctor Amadeus]

As the nature of society moves forward from our social constructs such as race, sex or orientation. Thinking beyond that I recognize that progress and moving forward require sacrifice, to get what something else, sometimes it requires to give up something else.

Putting aside any social conflicts that we are still to overcome what exactly will be the next step forward?

Are we going to have to start thinking about our resources and how our environment works in totality?

At some point will the age of materialism going to need to come to an end, along with our ideas of what, we have vs what we want, and what we are going to have to give up?

[Heladys]

Virtual reality and the eventuality of all humanity subsuming into it will finally put an end to materialism, because any possession or experience desired may be available within, with no practical benefit to possession outside of it.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Virtual reality and the eventuality of all humanity subsuming into it will finally put an end to materialism, because any possession or experience desired may be available within, with no practical benefit to possession outside of it.

Do you think that includes eventually your actual body?


In that I mean we are developing a lot of promising research into genetic therapy and being able to manipulate cells and our DNA, but the question is regardless to how long life can be extended for, is there a point to where we have to accept giving up some things?

For instance if your consciousness could be transferred to another body artificially or not, what kind of life would you live vs the one you are going to give up?


If space travel is or ever becomes a reality then synthetic bodies might be more of a requirement.

[cuafpr]

Virtual reality and the eventuality of all humanity subsuming into it will finally put an end to materialism, because any possession or experience desired may be available within, with no practical benefit to possession outside of it.

i was going to say materialism will never end without a major catastrophic event that sets us back a few 100 to 1000 years... but you are right, given enough advancment VR can end it, or at least curtail it. Want the 250,000 sports car go into your holodeck and bam you got and can get the feel of driving it. Its not 100% the same but likely close enough for most.

[Heladys]

Do you think that includes eventually your actual body?


In that I mean we are developing a lot of promising research into genetic therapy and being able to manipulate cells and our DNA, but the question is regardless to how long life can be extended for, is there a point to where we have to accept giving up some things?

For instance if your consciousness could be transferred to another body artificially or not, what kind of life would you live vs the one you are going to give up?


If space travel is or ever becomes a reality then synthetic bodies might be more of a requirement.

On a long enough timeline all any of us is ever going to experience is life in a vat with experiences piped in to us.

[melodramocracy]

Material acquisition is hardwired into the human psyche, because consumption on some level is required for us to live (shelter, clothing, food, etc) We've built a myriad of social and economic constructs around this with varying degrees of success, so while the delivery mechanism will change, the underlying desire for things will not.

On a personal level? Of course I want 'things', and will continue to, because those 'things' are enjoyable to me. Ownership of said things is enjoyable to me. Do I want in excess? I don't think so, but I doubt many people admit that sort of thing to themselves.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Material acquisition is hardwired into the human psyche, because consumption on some level is required for us to live (shelter, clothing, food, etc) We've built a myriad of social and economic constructs around this with varying degrees of success, so while the delivery mechanism will change, the underlying desire for things will not.

On a personal level? Of course I want 'things', and will continue to, because those 'things' are enjoyable to me. Ownership of said things is enjoyable to me. Do I want in excess? I don't think so, but I doubt many people admit that sort of thing to themselves.

So are you saying it is impossible?

Keep in mind if it's hardwired it could still be changed, although the follow up is by removing it, could that cause other problems like the End of Fire FLy, hehe where they removed aggression and the drawback was, the development of zombie like societies that eventually stop functioning and gave up and died, or become reavers if they rejected such development and turned into ravenous hordes.

[Theodarzna]

As the nature of society moves forward from our social constructs such as race, sex or orientation. Thinking beyond that I recognize that progress and moving forward require sacrifice, to get what something else, sometimes it requires to give up something else.

Putting aside any social conflicts that we are still to overcome what exactly will be the next step forward?

Are we going to have to start thinking about our resources and how our environment works in totality?

At some point will the age of materialism going to need to come to an end, along with our ideas of what, we have vs what we want, and what we are going to have to give up?

Why would we overcome any of these things? Materialism is the essence of the future of a globalized, secular world.

[Independent voter]

Even without VR, 3D printers or the version of 3D printers that will be around 100 years from now will make all material goods super cheap, that and full automation we humans will live a life of leisure and plenty.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Why would we overcome any of these things? Materialism is the essence of the future of a globalized, secular world.

What do you mean in totality, and what would brings you to such a conclusion?

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Even without VR, 3D printers or the version of 3D printers that will be around 100 years from now will make all material goods super cheap, that and full automation we humans will live a life of leisure and plenty.

I think of that as the "Do these jeans make me look to fat" approach. I mean it looks good in whatever mirror we have made in our minds about how we think we would look vs how it actually happens and appears in reality meaning how it's viewed from the outside looking in.


Yeah we have everything we want virtual 3D printers provide a life of leisure. Are you sure?

The only way I see that happening is if humanity thins the heard, or we make some pretty important leaps forward in society where we have overcome a lot of social environmental issues.

[melodramocracy]

So are you saying it is impossible?

Keep in mind if it's hardwired it could still be changed, although the follow up is by removing it, could that cause other problems like the End of Fire FLy, hehe where they removed aggression and the drawback was, the development of zombie like societies that eventually stop functioning and gave up and died, or become reavers if they rejected such development and turned into ravenous hordes.

At its core, it's impossible, because there are basic needs that are desired as well as some level of security (real or imagined) in having the ability to either own those basic needs, or a persistent level of availability to them. We go past that of course because our society is built around the ability to do so, and benefits from the idea of material possessions becoming 'needs' instead of wants (see the iPhone X thread).

[Theodarzna]

What do you mean in totality, and what would brings you to such a conclusion?

The logic of our world trading order and international system is to spread American consumer culture and materialism world wide. That Star Trek fantasy is just clever marketing and RP.

[Doctor Amadeus]

At its core, it's impossible, because there are basic needs that are desired as well as some level of security (real or imagined) in having the ability to either own those basic needs, or a persistent level of availability to them. We go past that of course because our society is built around the ability to do so, and benefits from the idea of material possessions becoming 'needs' instead of wants (see the iPhone X thread).

I see what you mean, I think over the years, I have personally focused more on the things I need, and merging that into what I want. Food, Housing Shelter, basic comforts and security access to interest for things I like to do, such as taking flying lessons, or reading books about biological research as it relates to humanity in terms of medicine things like that.

As far as entertainment couse, it is probably a lot less complicated than it was when starting out. As long as there is a prudent outlet for it, it doesn't take up too much resources either.

I think over all it is ambition to actually build, create or achieve something that I find more interesting like taking flying lessons.

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The logic of our world trading order and international system is to spread American consumer culture and materialism world wide. That Star Trek fantasy is just clever marketing and RP.

Yeah, that doesn't really say anything, and it really doesn't answer my question, Star Trek isn't real, and it is a fantasy, the story therein has nothing to do with marketing or RP, it's just something to think about, that is what art does.

As it relates to our reality though, our world works or fails to in lots of ways that almost never get addressed in a sufficient way. Which is why there is conflict and global bodies and alliances between nations across the the globe, that manage resources.

The question is about that process, not that the way it is exist is the way that it exist.

Why would we overcome any of these things? Materialism is the essence of the future of a globalized, secular world.

Because depending on where you stand intellectually, ethically or morally, the truth is we have a serious fucking problem, and Materialism seems to be part of that problem, NOT a solution.

[Deleted]

What do you mean with "materialism"?
It's a popular philosophy.

[Theodarzna]

Because depending on where you stand intellectually, ethically or morally, the truth is we have a serious fucking problem, and Materialism seems to be part of that problem, NOT a solution.

A problem nobody wants to seriously solve, and most work to actively promote one way or another. Materialistic Consumer Culture is something very few actually want to overturn, even if the results of it are atrocious and unsustainable, few westerners could survive outside it.

[Deleted]

A problem nobody wants to seriously solve, and most work to actively promote one way or another. Materialistic Consumer Culture is something very few actually want to overturn, even if the results of it are atrocious and unsustainable, few westerners could survive outside it.

What does materialism have to do with consumerism?
I'm very confused.

[McFuu]

I see what you mean, I think over the years, I have personally focused more on the things I need, and merging that into what I want. Food, Housing Shelter, basic comforts and security access to interest for things I like to do, such as taking flying lessons, or reading books about biological research as it relates to humanity in terms of medicine things like that.

As far as entertainment couse, it is probably a lot less complicated than it was when starting out. As long as there is a prudent outlet for it, it doesn't take up too much resources either.

I think over all it is ambition to actually build, create or achieve something that I find more interesting like taking flying lessons.

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Yeah, that doesn't really say anything, and it really doesn't answer my question, Star Trek isn't real, and it is a fantasy, the story therein has nothing to do with marketing or RP, it's just something to think about, that is what art does.

As it relates to our reality though, our world works or fails to in lots of ways that almost never get addressed in a sufficient way. Which is why there is conflict and global bodies and alliances between nations across the the globe, that manage resources.

The question is about that process, not that the way it is exist is the way that it exist.



Because depending on where you stand intellectually, ethically or morally, the truth is we have a serious fucking problem, and Materialism seems to be part of that problem, NOT a solution.

Materialism is one of the main driving forces to what we have today, without it we would still be stunted by 100s of years of development. And materialism will drive us into the stars. It's not going anywhere and there really is no need for it to go anywhere.

[Theodarzna]

What does materialism have to do with consumerism?
I'm very confused.

I think the OP is using materialism and consumerism as interchangeable words. I could be wrong but I think that is what Mall Security is trying to say. He means consumerism, or materialistic in the colloquial sense.

[PC2]

So are you saying it is impossible?

Keep in mind if it's hardwired it could still be changed, although the follow up is by removing it, could that cause other problems like the End of Fire FLy, hehe where they removed aggression and the drawback was, the development of zombie like societies that eventually stop functioning and gave up and died, or become reavers if they rejected such development and turned into ravenous hordes.

The scarcity of any materials we use could be reduced. Economic principles are not limited to materials though. There is also an economy and scarcity of knowledge creation. Which may circle back to materialism if it creates demand for traditional materials with new purposes in mind.

[Deleted]

I think the OP is using materialism and consumerism as interchangeable words. I could be wrong but I think that is what Mall Security is trying to say. He means consumerism, or materialistic in the colloquial sense.

oh
oh
people talk like that?
I was hoping for a connal thread, and abandoning dualistic conceptions of consciousness, or something.


Well then... OT:
I doubt that post-scarcity can be constructed by stopping wanting things: it works the other way.