Witnesses yell 'he can't hear you' as cop shoots deaf man

[Heladys]

Ok. What does that have to do with the fact that almost nobody, cop or otherwise, dies from assault weapons? If you are anti-gun, and you are not chasing the hand guns, you are doing it wrong, to a comedic level. Something like 95% of murders are done with hand guns. These police happy triggers are that way due to hand guns. I don't agree with your gun position, but you guys truly are SUPER fucking bad at it. Just sayin...

Because when it goes wrong it goes very extremely wrong in no time flat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_nightclub

But yes, handguns are the far greater threat day to day, to everyone not just police.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

As with most of these types of situations...
If only the people hadn’t broke the law in the first place. If the driver had just not left the scene of the accident all of this could have been easily avoided.
Where was his father while all this was taking place?

The father breaking the law does not mean the son should be shot he did not break any law.

[petej0]

Quotas have been illegal for three decades. Get real.

Quotas is not the right word, but there is a push to get more minority and women officers and the result is to lower standards in order to get them to pass the various tests.

[NineSpine]

WHOOSH. You got my point laughably wrong. My point is that only criminals murder.

Making statistical comparisons to unlike situations is bad science, and unconvincing. Your statement that the US has more use of police force than unlike nations factually does not refute my point that the number of incorrect usages of force in the US is tiny, when compared to correct usages of force in the US. I'm making an apples to apples argument, and you are saying yeah but bananas though.

No, what you are doing is called special pleading, and it's a logical fallacy.

[vindicatorx]

Perhaps its different in America but I have infact undergone the Canadian equivalent of said training. Wherein someones life had to be actively in danger for a gun to come out and you better be prepared to write a report on why you felt that was the case. As threatening as Im sure a man walking at you with a blunt object is, I wouldnt classify it as imminently life threatening when, as previously mentioned, you have other ranged means of subduing the guy. Like a god damn taser.

Your argument seems to be that the cops are entitled to lethal force when presented with anything even vaguely a threat. That doesn't denote levels of force. Thats two modes. Not kill and kill.

Funny I went through the relevant US version worked for the Sheriff's department for 3 and a half years before going back to college and changing fields. My arguement is the Usage of force guidelines. For US officers they are +1 meaning whatever threat level the suspect is they are 1 higher.

In this case holding a weapon (the pipe) and walking towards the officers would be considered active agression. I'm not making an excuse for the cops I am simpley educating people this is what they go by.

[NineSpine]

Quotas is not the right word, but there is a push to get more minority and women officers and the result is to lower standards in order to get them to pass the various tests.

We already have states that ban people for scoring TOO WELL on intelligence tests. You aren't dealing with the reality of the situation. You are just trying to change the subject into some perverse obsession you have with minority complaining.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Quotas is not the right word, but there is a push to get more minority and women officers and the result is to lower standards in order to get them to pass the various tests.

I know they push for more minority's here in Canada but the bar to get in is higher then America in general so i doudt they lower the standards. Don't know about woman.

[Tijuana]

Because there is a disconnect:

Poll: 92 percent of gun owners support universal background checks
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...kground-checks

NEW POLL: GUN OWNERS SEE THE NRA AS OUT OF TOUCH
http://americansforresponsiblesoluti...un-owner-poll/


But like on other issues, people stick to emotions, and identity/party line:

Despite Criticism, NRA Still Enjoys Majority Support in U.S.
http://news.gallup.com/poll/186284/d...y-support.aspx

So, I enjoy watching this clown show go on... even though I think its horrible.

I'm not saying the particular organization hasn't done or said things I disagree with. But to many on the left, and you if I'm getting you right, seem to think that if the NRA didn't exist, that would just be the end of it...or...something? The second amendment isn't going anywhere, any time soon. It's unlikely that it ever will go anywhere, ever, in fact. A little bit of tighter gun control, while the 2nd is in tact, is nibbling at the margins, at best. If Democrats got what they wanted on gun control, while leaving the 2nd Amendment active, it would result in a rounding error amount of change nation wide.

[NineSpine]

How many fit in the crotch of some baggy, saggin style jeans?

So now you are changing your argument from number of guns to who has the guns, and your problem is the guns held by the group of people who wear "baggy jeans"?

[Tijuana]

I don’t lock my doors either. I wouldn’t leave my vehicle running in the street/lot though.
People are just going by what their news media is spoon feeding them. They want them to think the US is bad so it makes their own country look great in comparison. Propaganda is all it really is. When they grow up and see the world for what it really is it may be too late.

Meh, I think we are all a little bit guilty of doing the same, but I agree that is what is going on here.

[NineSpine]

I'm not saying the particular organization hasn't done or said things I disagree with. But to many on the left, and you if I'm getting you right, seem to think that if the NRA didn't exist, that would just be the end of it...or...something? The second amendment isn't going anywhere, any time soon. It's unlikely that it ever will go anywhere, ever, in fact. A little bit of tighter gun control, while the 2nd is in tact, is nibbling at the margins, at best. If Democrats got what they wanted on gun control, while leaving the 2nd Amendment active, it would result in a rounding error amount of change nation wide.

For almost 200 years the second amendment was not considered to protect the individual right to own firearms.

[vindicatorx]

How about the ones that do their fucking job without killing innocent non-suspects?

That's called murder, mate.

Then the whole US system needs an overhaul. Then again how many officer fatalities a year do those places get?

[NineSpine]

Then the whole US system needs an overhaul. Then again how many officer fatalities a year do those places get?

Even in the US, being a police is not a particularly dangerous job. Extremely few police officers are killed in violent altercations. More die in car accidents.

[cuafpr]

I don't know teaching them to recognize a more common threat is probably a higher priority a lot of people don't have endless free time or money to education there disabled kid on every threat or hire some one to do it. As to it being an American thing I mean compared to Canada as I can't speak for any where else I have family members who work with disabled people here in Canada and freinds who work with them in America. They both have some horror story's about but the over all info I've gotten is that Americas get a lot less support funds for there family's making it a lot harder to afford a full time worker or teaching staff.

oh that you are correct on! My extended family is dealing with that now with my step-grandfather ...

[Tijuana]

The point I'm making is that a criminal engagement is likely to be roughly equivalently violent regardless of where it happens, while your police by their very approach tend to send noncriminal engagements in the same bad direction -> and that is where the higher levels of general armaments factor into the violence of potential responses. Not because the generic american is looking to pop a cop given the opportunity.

And yet. Gun ownership is part of it, but it's far from enough to account for those differences. Policing effectiveness and approach is the major contributor. Temperament and training.

Yeah, and I could not disagree more, that police interactions are the same in places where hand guns are allowed and where they are not. To statistically support that with logic, you would have to think the people of the US are being oppressed, and fighting some sort of underground resistance. Far more cops are shot in the US, than cops are shooting citizens. If there is a war between citizens and cops, the cops are losing fucking badly. Given the reality of the situation, it's hard to blame cops for taking an aggressive stance, since they want to, you know, keep living and such.

Nobody is saying cops don't make mistakes, or that they should not see due process when they do. But making it look like there is some epidemic, is transparently painting an agenda driven narrative. It's not an accident these stories are in the news. The actual numbers of unlawful usages of force tell a VERY different story, given the hundreds of thousands of police in the US. Even if you accept every news story that the cop was wrong, you are still left with a statistically insignificant number of instances, and no supporting data for an increase, let alone an epidemic.

The REAL problem, is mother fuckers getting off when they are clearly guilty. Why is THAT not the topic ever? Why does it always have to be all cops are bad and racist and they wake up knowing they will kill, they just don't know who yet?

[Allybeboba]

The father breaking the law does not mean the son should be shot he did not break any law.

Did not follow lawful command of a police officer.
Again, we don’t know the entire situation only what the media has chosen to tell us. The person had a two foot club with a lanyard on it. That has to be taken into account as well.

[petej0]

We already have states that ban people for scoring TOO WELL on intelligence tests. You aren't dealing with the reality of the situation. You are just trying to change the subject into some perverse obsession you have with minority complaining.

I am explaining part of the reason why we have bad police officers.

I know they push for more minority's here in Canada but the bar to get in is higher then America in general so i doudt they lower the standards. Don't know about woman.

Are you saying departments in the US dont not lower standards?

[Tijuana]

For almost 200 years the second amendment was not considered to protect the individual right to own firearms.

No, it was understood all along. US citizens have owned fire arms for our entire existence. Any statement to the contrary is just retarded, sorry.

[Antiganon]

Did not follow lawful command of a police officer.
Again, we don’t know the entire situation only what the media has chosen to tell us. The person had a two foot club with a lanyard on it. That has to be taken into account as well.

It can't be presumed that he even knew what the command was. He was deaf, developmentally disabled, and we have no means of confirming he was able to read the officers' lips.

[Tijuana]

So now you are changing your argument from number of guns to who has the guns, and your problem is the guns held by the group of people who wear "baggy jeans"?

No, I'm making the obvious point that you can't pull a hunting rifle out of your pants very quickly, which creates a very different police/citizen dynamic.