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  1. #1

    We’re building roads to withstand last century’s climate

    I received an interesting article from Roads & Bridges magazine. As you all know asphaltic concrete (A.C.) is temperature sensitive. A group of researchers in AZ did a study on the impact of rising global temperature, and came to the conclusion that the current A.C. in use was designed to tolerate temperature extremes of a period that ended in 1995.

    Here is a summary of the study.

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2017...turys-climate/

    Here is the full study. Unfortunately you have to buy or rent the study, or subscribe to the magazine.

    http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journ...ck=true#access

    So far the study estimates that the mismatch between the roads and temperatures already added up between 13 - 14 billion in repair/maintenance/replacement cost as of 2010. States like CA and TX which have the most roadways see the largest total cost. However, on a per kilometer basis, the midwest states experience the largest number of problems.

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Molis's Avatar
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    You are telling me that roads built for 120 degrees cant with stand temperatures of 121 degrees?

  3. #3
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    I received an interesting article from Roads & Bridges magazine. As you all know asphaltic concrete (A.C.) is temperature sensitive. A group of researchers in AZ did a study on the impact of rising global temperature, and came to the conclusion that the current A.C. in use was designed to tolerate temperature extremes of a period that ended in 1995.

    Here is a summary of the study.

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2017...turys-climate/

    Here is the full study. Unfortunately you have to buy or rent the study, or subscribe to the magazine.

    http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journ...ck=true#access

    So far the study estimates that the mismatch between the roads and temperatures already added up between 13 - 14 billion in repair/maintenance/replacement cost as of 2010. States like CA and TX which have the most roadways see the largest total cost. However, on a per kilometer basis, the midwest states experience the largest number of problems.
    The shifting of the climates is a huge deal, especially for structures and infrastructure built in a previous era that cannot be easily changed. Thankfully methods of road pavement are easier-ish to change than entire water systems.
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  4. #4
    Last centurys weather is this centurys weather...

    I find so many global warming stories to be disingenuous...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    I received an interesting article from Roads & Bridges magazine. As you all know asphaltic concrete (A.C.) is temperature sensitive. A group of researchers in AZ did a study on the impact of rising global temperature, and came to the conclusion that the current A.C. in use was designed to tolerate temperature extremes of a period that ended in 1995.

    Here is a summary of the study.

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2017...turys-climate/

    Here is the full study. Unfortunately you have to buy or rent the study, or subscribe to the magazine.

    http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journ...ck=true#access

    So far the study estimates that the mismatch between the roads and temperatures already added up between 13 - 14 billion in repair/maintenance/replacement cost as of 2010. States like CA and TX which have the most roadways see the largest total cost. However, on a per kilometer basis, the midwest states experience the largest number of problems.
    Where I live we get extremely cold winter and some very hot days in summer, every spring, asphalt is demolished, raped by winter and they have to fill the holes and repair a lot of stuff.
    Last year they started remaking an entire highway in concrete instead of asphalt, it seems much better so far.

  6. #6
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    Last centurys weather is this centurys weather...

    I find so many global warming stories to be disingenuous...
    Until you dare to actually read them, eh?

  7. #7
    But the climate ain't changing, Rush Limbaugh said so.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Until you dare to actually read them, eh?
    Not really no... most tend to cherry pick data hard and use extremely limited sample sizes.

    Even with data for 100 years a few degrees of temperature variation for specific dates are not a sign of our doom approaching us.

  9. #9
    So the roads started to decay right after people starting driving on them with electric cars...suspicious.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    Last centurys weather is this centurys weather...

    I find so many global warming stories to be disingenuous...
    The author is not trying to address global warming. All he was saying is that we may need to adjust the design procedure for pavement sections. Instead of using climate data going back to 1965 to evaluate the design temperature which is the norm, we should used a sliding window method, and from hereon forward only use climate data from the prior 20 years. His position is that because the climate is changing quickly, for statistical analysis purposes, data older than 20 years are considered obsolete (garbage).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    Not really no... most tend to cherry pick data hard and use extremely limited sample sizes.

    Even with data for 100 years a few degrees of temperature variation for specific dates are not a sign of our doom approaching us.
    Who is talking about doom? We are talking about pavement sections lasting only 16-17 years instead of 20 years as designed.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    The author is not trying to address global warming. All he was saying is that we may need to adjust the design procedure for pavement sections. Instead of using climate data going back to 1965 to evaluate the design temperature which is the norm, we should used a sliding window method, and from hereon forward only use climate data from the prior 20 years. His position is that because the climate is changing quickly, for statistical analysis purposes, data older than 20 years are considered obsolete (garbage).
    It isn't changing quickly though.. using smaller measurements of time just gives you more drastic variation...

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Molis's Avatar
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    The climate is not changing quickly.

    It is changing slowly over time.

    Of course weather is destroying the roads. So are millions of cars.


    The very slow, possibly man made, climate change with 1-2 degrees average change is not going to affect a road.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    It isn't changing quickly though.. using smaller measurements of time just gives you more drastic variation...
    That is the point. He is saying the older data lowered the design temperature and shorten the lifecycle of the pavement sections.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    That is the point. He is saying the older data lowered the design temperature and shorten the lifecycle of the pavement sections.
    Right but hes using bad logic.

    Raising the design temperature then having the roads break apart during a cold year isn't productive.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Molis View Post
    The climate is not changing quickly.

    It is changing slowly over time.

    Of course weather is destroying the roads. So are millions of cars.


    The very slow, possibly man made, climate change with 1-2 degrees average change is not going to affect a road.
    It is sufficient to shorten the design life of the pavement section. When you design pavement sections to last 20 years (standard), you want it to last 20 years. Not 14 - 17 years.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    Right but hes using bad logic.

    Raising the design temperature then having the roads break apart during a cold year isn't productive.
    Unless we are talking freezing Midwest weather, no it wont. The increased temperature gap between max (during summer) and min (during winter) in the Midwest likely accounts for the higher number of pavement distress on a per mile basis.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2017-09-21 at 10:02 PM.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Molis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    It is sufficient to shorten the design life of the pavement section. When you design pavement sections to last 20 years (standard), you want it to last 20 years. Not 14 - 17 years.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Unless we are talking freezing Midwest weather, no it wont.
    That just tells me the road builders were short sighted, or used cheap materials.

    I am not a climate change denier. I am just saying that global warming is not going to suddenly change a 20 year road to 14.

  17. #17
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    Not really no... most tend to cherry pick data hard and use extremely limited sample sizes.

    Even with data for 100 years a few degrees of temperature variation for specific dates are not a sign of our doom approaching us.
    All evidence to the contrary . . . . But don't worry about - those pesky scientists are really after all the climate change endorsement money - all 97% of the earth's scientists.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    All evidence to the contrary . . . . But don't worry about - those pesky scientists are really after all the climate change endorsement money - all 97% of the earth's scientists.
    Being skeptical isn't the same as denial. I would point out the errors in your foregone conclusion but I found that a waste of time to do online.

  19. #19
    Dreadlord Ol Scratch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    Not really no... most tend to cherry pick data hard and use extremely limited sample sizes.
    No, that would be people like you. You're the ones going around cherry picking what information you want to believe and dismissing the volumes, upon volumes, UPON VOLUMES of other data contrary to your idiotic world view.

    You.

    You're the problem.
    "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through out political and culture life, nutured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" —Isaac Asimov

  20. #20
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    Being skeptical isn't the same as denial. I would point out the errors in your foregone conclusion but I found that a waste of time to do online.
    And constant denial masquerading as "skepticism" is just willful ignorance run amok. Unless you can point to a post where you even mildly embrace the idea that climate change is not only happening but is human caused, you can take your place in line with the rest of the knuckle dragging science deniers.

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