Power level of Argus the Unmaker (spoiler)

[Manabomb]

You have take account that even when he ressed KT he had to use sunwell so ressing DW would take more powerful than Arthas could have or really long preparation with gathering huge amounts of magic. and first of all he needs DW's corpse and his corpse had to disintegrated to defeat him.

1) Argus
2) Aggramar's avatar
3) KJ/Archi
4) DW
5) Yogg
6) Lei Shen
7) C'thun or Cho'gall as avatar of c'thun with hammer of twilight "The Hammer was forged for Cho'gall by Wildhammer smiths,[1] commissioned by Deathwing and imbued with power of the Old Gods" When we take account that power of many old gods which reffers atleast two old god gave power to that hammer
8) Lk/Hulked Gul'dan
9) Malygos
10) Cenarius/Xavius(as a Nightmare lord)

You mean this hammer? It doesn't even talk to you like a certain knaifu.

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I mean, Argus isn't even a World Soul anymore.

He's a LITTERAL Titan when we fight him. Sure, he doesn't LOOK IT, but that's due to all the Torment Sargeras put on him. Hell, Sargeras looks tormented also, yet he's the Strongest Titan of them all.

However, we DO see Argus in World Soul form, and that's during the Aggramar fight. However, Argus is fully birthed during the Seat of The Pantheon.

That's a fair assessment, was actually nodding my head to your other post. Argus is one scary dude that Blizzard pulled right out of their ass. I wonder if he will be the standard measurement of power in the extended universe. "Ahh yeah, this guy is... 14 Argus'"

[Terongor]

You mean this hammer? It doesn't even talk to you like a certain knaifu.

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That's a fair assessment, was actually nodding my head to your other post. Argus is one scary dude that Blizzard pulled right out of their ass. I wonder if he will be the standard measurement of power in the extended universe. "Ahh yeah, this guy is... 14 Argus'"

Well she might have not been a weapon from the beginning also have heard about the tough silent types?

[Manabomb]

Well she might have not been a weapon from the beginning also have heard about the tough silent types?

You know what? That's fair. You win. Mace-daddy is a mute that just likes to watch you work it while you quest.

[cparle87]

Deathwing should be a lot higher and the Lich King a lot lower. But still I find it difficult to compare Deathwing and a Titan like Aggramar or Argus. A dragon Aspect, even empowered by the Titans (as well as the Old Gods in Deathwing's case) shouldn't be more powerful than an actual Titan. But then again we needed deus ex machina miracle powers to have a shot at Deathwing while we can simply pew pew actual Titans like Aggramar and Argus dead. That kinda states that Deathwing was a more difficult fight.

Or brush it up as Blizzard bad writing, as usual.

Deathwing's biggest strength was his power over the earth. Looks like he's losing a fight? Split the planet apart. His actual combat abiilty, I'd say he's beneath Argus, Aggramar, Kil'jaeden and Archimonde. But above the rest listed. Lei Shen vs Malygos is a fight I'd like to see. Can his titan-imbued lightning magic prevail against titan-infused magical mastery?

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I mean, Argus isn't even a World Soul anymore.

He's a LITTERAL Titan when we fight him. Sure, he doesn't LOOK IT, but that's due to all the Torment Sargeras put on him. Hell, Sargeras looks tormented also, yet he's the Strongest Titan of them all.

A literal Titan is the size of a planet. Argus' and Aggrammar's souls have been placed in Avatars, just like Sargeras did before.

[TheFirstOnes]

Deathwing's biggest strength was his power over the earth. Looks like he's losing a fight? Split the planet apart. His actual combat abiilty, I'd say he's beneath Argus, Aggramar, Kil'jaeden and Archimonde. But above the rest listed. Lei Shen vs Malygos is a fight I'd like to see. Can his titan-imbued lightning magic prevail against titan-infused magical mastery?

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A literal Titan is the size of a planet. Argus' and Aggrammar's souls have been placed in Avatars, just like Sargeras did before.

Argus is NO Avatar. If he were, then where would his actual Titan form be? Also, if he WERE An Avatar, then we wouldn't need the Titan's help.

Argus is an actual Titan, maybe this guy can just change size. Blizzard will find an excuse SOMEHOW.

[Manabomb]

Argus is NO Avatar. If he were, then where would his actual Titan form be? Also, if he WERE An Avatar, then we wouldn't need the Titan's help.

Argus is an actual Titan, maybe this guy can just change size. Blizzard will find an excuse SOMEHOW.

I just assume it has to do with Blizzard's shitty scaling for out of game lore reasons or in game gameplay reasons. Whichever excuse suits them best for not giving Sargeras a form to the name before chaining him up indefinitely, or scaling Argus to his proper size.

Or making Khagdar the same size as every other human male....

[cparle87]

Argus is NO Avatar. If he were, then where would his actual Titan form be? Also, if he WERE An Avatar, then we wouldn't need the Titan's help.

Argus is an actual Titan, maybe this guy can just change size. Blizzard will find an excuse SOMEHOW.

His literal Titan body is still inside Argus, like Azeroth is. Blizzard hasn't actually told us what the birth of a Titan involves, specifically whether the world the Titan was growing in survives. Since it would be very counterproductive for the Legion to completely destroy all of planet Argus since, you know, it's his army's headquarters, he's going with this method. Siphon its power to accelerate the regeneration of his army, and create an Avatar for its soul to inhabit to crush anything that comes to Argus that actually presents a threat. Like he sent Aggramar to destroy us after we attacked Nath'raxas Spire.

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I just assume it has to do with Blizzard's shitty scaling for out of game lore reasons or in game gameplay reasons. Whichever excuse suits them best for not giving Sargeras a form to the name before chaining him up indefinitely, or scaling Argus to his proper size.

Or making Khagdar the same size as every other human male....

Any chance you could actually do some critical thinking about how and why something might be, and not immediately relapse into "Blizzard's shitty scaling" and "whatever excuse suits them"? Try reading my post to Jasontheking, there's logical reasons for why these things have gone the way they have.

[TheFirstOnes]

His literal Titan body is still inside Argus, like Azeroth is. Blizzard hasn't actually told us what the birth of a Titan involves, specifically whether the world the Titan was growing in survives. Since it would be very counterproductive for the Legion to completely destroy all of planet Argus since, you know, it's his army's headquarters, he's going with this method. Siphon its power to accelerate the regeneration of his army, and create an Avatar for its soul to inhabit to crush anything that comes to Argus that actually presents a threat. Like he sent Aggramar to destroy us after we attacked Nath'raxas Spire.

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Any chance you could actually do some critical thinking about how and why something might be, and not immediately relapse into "Blizzard's shitty scaling" and "whatever excuse suits them"? Try reading my post to Jasontheking, there's logical reasons for why these things have gone the way they have.

This isn't an Avatar though. Remember, we had NO help when fighting Aggramar at Antorus, and we killed him. This is Argus' full on Titan. Hell, we even saw Argus' WORLD SOUL at Antorus, and that was no Avatar. THAT WAS A WORLD SOUL! Titan's might not be limited to Planets in terms of size. Sure, they're living Worlds, but they can likely change their size.

If Argus was in Avatar form, then why didn't Aggramar kill us when he had the chance? Why were we able to kill off Aggramar ALONE?! Why is Argus' World Soul not the size of the fucking Core?

Maybe it's another retcon. Idk.

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I just assume it has to do with Blizzard's shitty scaling for out of game lore reasons or in game gameplay reasons. Whichever excuse suits them best for not giving Sargeras a form to the name before chaining him up indefinitely, or scaling Argus to his proper size.

Or making Khagdar the same size as every other human male....

That's the thing, he SHOULD be Planet sized. We all know that Argus isn't in an Avatar when we fight him, hence why there is the quest "Death of a TITAN". We're fighting the TITAN Argus, not an Avatar or anything like that. So, why isn't he lanet sized? Unless there's a new lore reason behind it, I call this bullshit. Cause, if Titan's COULD change their size, why didn't Sargeras ENTER that Azeroth Portal without an Avatar?

It's stupid. Maybe Sargeras himself was too POWERFUL for the portal, but I don't see it.

[Eazy]

We finally have another boss that's actually strong enough to one shot us. We haven't had a boss this powerful since the Lich King.

Are you for real?

Just checked out your signature:


you're probably trolling... or don't know WoW lore at all.

1. Argus the Unmaker (Is Capable of unmaking the Universe).
2. Aggramar's Avatar (Similar to Sargeras' Avatar, but Aggramar's trained up, and empowered by Sargeras a bit).
3. Kil'jaeden/Archimonde (1 Eredar Warlock in the Prophet's Lesson short story, is so strong, his small ritual broke the entire Planet's crust. Well, in a vision that is).
4. Deathwing (You know why).
5. Odyn/Helya.
6. Yogg'saron "Ulduar" (Strong enough to have taken us on, had it not been for the Titan Keepers, and their help). Gonna also put Lei'shen here for future Reference.
7. Hulked Gul'dan.
8. Xavius (Full Power, AKA Emerald Nightmare Version).
9. The Lich King (Himself ONLY).
10. Cho'gall.

And, lastly, 11. The Dragon Aspects (Talking about the Present Day Aspects. They're not strong enough to take on many threats).

That's probably a good list, but I'm not only sure about Yogg(above Odyn/Helya? Maybe even above Kil'jaeden/Archimonde? Did we see his real power? We needed Titan Keepers help, he seemed so powerful) and Lei-Shen(would put him just above the Lich King and below Hulked Gul'dan).

[cparle87]

This isn't an Avatar though. Remember, we had NO help when fighting Aggramar at Antorus, and we killed him. This is Argus' full on Titan. Hell, we even saw Argus' WORLD SOUL at Antorus, and that was no Avatar. THAT WAS A WORLD SOUL! Titan's might not be limited to Planets in terms of size. Sure, they're living Worlds, but they can likely change their size.

If Argus was in Avatar form, then why didn't Aggramar kill us when he had the chance? Why were we able to kill off Aggramar ALONE?! Why is Argus' World Soul not the size of the fucking Core?

Maybe it's another retcon. Idk.

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That's the thing, he SHOULD be Planet sized. We all know that Argus isn't in an Avatar when we fight him, hence why there is the quest "Death of a TITAN". We're fighting the TITAN Argus, not an Avatar or anything like that. So, why isn't he lanet sized? Unless there's a new lore reason behind it, I call this bullshit. Cause, if Titan's COULD change their size, why didn't Sargeras ENTER that Azeroth Portal without an Avatar?

It's stupid. Maybe Sargeras himself was too POWERFUL for the portal, but I don't see it.

Titans are planet-sized. That's why the Pantheon had to create the Titanforged to fight the Black Empire, because they couldn't do it directly. You know the end result of Aman'thul personally killing Y'Shaarj. So. Argus being the way he is there are only two options. One, his soul has been placed in an Avatar that Sargeras created for him so he could fight, like with Aggramar. Two, his soul has the ability to change size.

[jellmoo]

Honestly? I don't think either Arthas or Garrosh have a spot on a top 10 list like this, let alone as high as they were placed.

[TheFirstOnes]

Titans are planet-sized. That's why the Pantheon had to create the Titanforged to fight the Black Empire, because they couldn't do it directly. You know the end result of Aman'thul personally killing Y'Shaarj. So. Argus being the way he is there are only two options. One, his soul has been placed in an Avatar that Sargeras created for him so he could fight, like with Aggramar. Two, his soul has the ability to change size.

Yeah, his Titan self might be able to change size. Likely not explained however.

But still, it's not his Soul we're fighting. World souls look like Star clusters, and they don't talk like Mortals, they sing. That's why Azeroth needed Magni as her speaker, as she can't talk like a normal Mortal, namely due to her being a World Soul.

It's strange.

[cparle87]

Yeah, his Titan self might be able to change size. Likely not explained however.

But still, it's not his Soul we're fighting. World souls look like Star clusters, and they don't talk like Mortals, they sing. That's why Azeroth needed Magni as her speaker, as she can't talk like a normal Mortal, namely due to her being a World Soul.

It's strange.

That's what I'm saying, though. If Titans could change size then the Pantheon would've done that to combat the Black Empire instead of, or in addition to, creating the Titanforged. So unless a tortured, twisted from in the womb Titan was able to find out how to do something the entire Pantheon in thousands of years didn't even have a clue they could do, then it's probably not his true Titanic body at any size we're fighting. So best guess is he's either stuffed into an Avatar, or its a representation of his soul that we fight.

[TheFirstOnes]

That's what I'm saying, though. If Titans could change size then the Pantheon would've done that to combat the Black Empire instead of, or in addition to, creating the Titanforged. So unless a tortured, twisted from in the womb Titan was able to find out how to do something the entire Pantheon in thousands of years didn't even have a clue they could do, then it's probably not his true Titanic body at any size we're fighting. So best guess is he's either stuffed into an Avatar, or its a representation of his soul that we fight.

That, or Argus is unique, hence why Sargeras tortured him for the Legion's Infinite BS.

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Also, OP, i'd put Sargeras either greater, or equal to Argus' power.

[cparle87]

That, or Argus is unique, hence why Sargeras tortured him for the Legion's Infinite BS.

True, he could be unique. Perhaps that's why the Pantheon didn't find him but found Azeroth. Did you ever play SC1? Imagine demons regeneration in the nether like queueing up a bunch of marines at your barracks. Now consider Argus to be the cheat code for super fast building. There's a ton of them, and they seem endless when they get regenerated so quickly and are back on the battle. Very demoralizing, to think you're up against an enemy that is endless. Less so when you know they can simply replace themselves very quickly. It's a psych thing.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

Argus the Unmaker is stronger than Sargeras. The Unmaker is only a Avatar and could already unmake the mutiverse. Sargeras's avatar got best by a guardian so Argus > Sargeras > Argus the Unmaker > Sargeras' Avatar.

The titans cannot change their size otherwise they could had best the old gods without ripping them out of existence.

Argus the Unmaker unmakes Sargeras. At full power Argus the Unmaker could unmake the rest of the realities including the void and light.

[cparle87]

That, or Argus is unique, hence why Sargeras tortured him for the Legion's Infinite BS.

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Also, OP, i'd put Sargeras either greater, or equal to Argus' power.

Well, Sargeras was the Pantheon's champion so he was probably the strongest among them in combat ability. Then he gets super infused with fel when he cracked open Marduun, which the Titans are very vulnerable to. It's possible Argus had the potential to be stronger than Sargeras, cause Azeroth is the same way.

[Magistrate]

Deathwing should be a lot higher and the Lich King a lot lower. But still I find it difficult to compare Deathwing and a Titan like Aggramar or Argus. A dragon Aspect, even empowered by the Titans (as well as the Old Gods in Deathwing's case) shouldn't be more powerful than an actual Titan. But then again we needed deus ex machina miracle powers to have a shot at Deathwing while we can simply pew pew actual Titans like Aggramar and Argus dead. That kinda states that Deathwing was a more difficult fight.

Or brush it up as Blizzard bad writing, as usual.

Deathwing was also gifted by the Old Gods. Not saying that makes him more powerful than a Titan, though, as Titans are easily able to kill Old Gods--but don't, for other reasons.

[cparle87]

Argus the Unmaker is stronger than Sargeras. The Unmaker is only a Avatar and could already unmake the mutiverse. Sargeras's avatar got best by a guardian so Argus > Sargeras > Argus the Unmaker > Sargeras' Avatar.

The titans cannot change their size otherwise they could had best the old gods without ripping them out of existence.

Argus the Unmaker unmakes Sargeras. At full power Argus the Unmaker could unmake the rest of the realities including the void and light.

He just went full retard. Please don't go full retard. We were having such a nice discussion.

[Magnagarde]

lemme just reorganise the list so it makes sense
1. Argus the Unmaker
2: Aggrammar
3: KJ / Archimonde
4: Yogg-saron
5: Deathwing
6: Malygos
7: Lei shen
8: Arthas
9: Garrosh
10: Algalon

altho even with this redone list i'm not sure if i'm right with the placing of Yogg i think an arguement could be made for him being placed higher than KJ / Archimonde

Totally agree with this list.