Speculation - Silithus: The Wound

[Snorri]

How Y'shaarj died was different then to C'thun and Yogg. They weren't ripped out of the planet.

Y'shaarj was not killed when he was pulled out. His heart remained alive. Y'shaarj and the heart truly died when Garrosh drained all of its power and was then defeated.

[Qualia]

Yeah it is definitely a lot more clear now, but it still seems odd to me. I guess they didn't really explain it enough. If they're dead and them being dead caused the Cataclysm then why is it linked to Deathwing? Deathwing was supposedly corrupted by N'zoth who was the one "signing his checks". That implies to me that the destruction of the world was a result of Deathwing and N'zoth, don't you think?

I agree - and to be honest, I wouldn't rule out the chance that they just answered with the first thing randomly came to their minds either. Still, they said that, so we just have to live with it. I'd theorize that the two OGs deaths weakened Azeroth enough for Deathwing to cause the Cataclysm. Otherwise, if Deathwing was so powerful that he could wreck havoc on Azeroth from Deepholm, why wouldn't he do it earlier (or later), but wait until Yogg is dead to started his stuff. After all, he has been there a few times to recover from his wounds and he behaved well, according to the rock giants there. Also, killing Yogg should have contaminated Ulduar to some degree, as when we came with Khadgar, the Saronite Vapors spawned those Faceless Echoes and the caretaker robot was complaining "Not again! The Keepers will make me fill out an incident report" as if it was something that happens frequent enough instead of some shocking event that only happened because we were there.

Y'shaarj was not killed when he was pulled out. His heart remained alive. Y'shaarj and the heart truly died when Garrosh drained all of its power and was then defeated.

The heart was dead, though. Garrosh revived it using the pools of the Vale of Eternal Blossoms and was said almost revived Y'Shaarj itself during SoO. We better pray that none of those Azeroth's blood will be spilling over AQ.... will it?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The heart was dead, though. Garrosh revived it using the pools of the Vale of Eternal Blossoms and was said almost revived Y'Shaarj itself during SoO. We better pray that none of those Azeroth's blood will be spilling over AQ.... will it?

And all cause Illidan wanted to finish the Legion off.


WOOPS

[Snorri]

The heart was dead, though. Garrosh revived it using the pools of the Vale of Eternal Blossoms and was said almost revived Y'Shaarj itself during SoO. We better pray that none of those Azeroth's blood will be spilling over AQ.... will it?

The heart was beating before he tossed into the pools. Dead hearts don't beat. You see it in the Siege of Orgrimmar trailer. The heart was what was keeping the Sha alive, but with the heart truly dead now, the Sha are gone from Pandaria forever.

Of all places Blizzard could let Sargeras stab, they chose Silithus. It has to mean something. The consequences will be carried over to the next expansion. I hope the blood will be used to revive C'thun.

[Azalar]

Anyone else finds the convenient shape of the crater familiar? It suspiciously looks like C'thun's eye.

[elderu]

Anyone else finds the convenient shape of the crater familiar? It suspiciously looks like C'thun's eye.

Nah, DESTINY.

Sargeras' sword has a giant burning EYE like C'thun's on it



Also the symbol of the DARKMOON Faire, which is a Purple/Green themed event. (See Argus for colours)

Argus is the Darkmoon prophesied by Silas Darkmoon while tapping into the Void, and seeing the unfolding, timeless expanses of potential realities.

So.. Like hear me out. The Old God's probably manifest as our fears to a degree.

C'thun, as an Old God, has been granted the foresight of Sargeras' coming by N'zoth and Murozond.
Hence why he looks like a giant eye, and the Stab wound's colours are a reflection of that great fear. The fear of the Dark Titan annihilating our world.

[SinR]

Meh... like I said somewhere, its a good thing they finally did something with Silithus

[Redroniksre]

I mean I think the sticky situation comes from the fact that they always told us that Y'shaarj was truly dead and implying he could NEVER come back. That Garrosh was using the heart as a weapon and nothing more. They stated that he was 100% dead numerous times to emphasis the point that Garrosh was acting out of his own desires and his own will.

And then that seems to directly contrast with C'thun and Yogg. I really dislike the comics as a source of canon material considering even Blizzard at this point is starting to get a little iffy on Med'an's story, but Cho'gall is seen to be attempting to resurrect C'thun. This is something that was said couldn't happen with Y'shaarj because he was truly dead. It is still just my interpretation, but all of these things in combination scream to me that C'thun and Yogg are not dead like Y'shaarj is dead. Obviously WoW is already a bit... iffy on the whole resurrection lore seeing some characters do get rez'd, others cannot for... reasons? The main characters hardly ever just get hit with a priest's resurrection spell and come back, though. Illidan's return had to be explained based on the fact he had become a demon. None of the hundreds of Paladins thought to bring Tirion back to life even though my holy paladin friend has a 100 yard range mass rez spell that brings me back to life after every wipe. I think maybe we're just conditioned differently. C'thun and Yogg being dead but possible to be resurrected is nothing unique to us seeing as we just take that sort of thing as being in the canon of WoW. People can always cast rez spells... except they can't always it seems. The problem is that Blizzard has integrated rezes into the lore of the game for certain quests and the like which muddles the waters again.

I would say that, unless it directly happens to a major lore character, resurrection spells are not entirely canon or at least as easy as we think they are.

But I think the biggest problem is that Blizzard hasn't really talked about them very much. I think they were trying to keep the mystery of the Old Gods intact, but the revelation that they're just minions of the void really ruined that mystery. I'm fairly confident that nobody would be having this argument right now if Old Gods had remained a complete mystery. We would have just forgiven each other for thinking one way or the other simply because we didn't have a single shred of concrete evidence other than, "Y'shaarj was truly dead and only his ghosts and a heart remained," which doesn't tell us much about their state of existence as beings. All it tells us is that one died and his wounds were felt for a long time afterwards.

TL;DR:
Y'shaarj being immune to a full resurrection regardless of any power is an indication that C'thun is at least differently dead than he was. We can also assume that Yogg is in the same state seeing as players took out both of them. Also Blizzard needs to have a live Dev Q&A discussing the lore of the Old gods because this shit is no longer an exciting mystery now that they're just void creations.

Yogg-Saron himself says that he is dead (well, going to die at least) and that his blood would continue to corrupt. I mean they could bring them back still through lore magic, but that really goes for any villain.

[SoulSoBreezy]

Potential Spoilers:

The new 7.3.2 patch notes make mention of a new map possibly for a scenario “Silithus: The Wound” this naturally brings to mind C’Thun and AQ.

Could we finally be seeing confirmation we have not “killed” the old gods like we believed? Could perhaps C’Thun, after being weakened and granting strength/blessing/extra eyeballs to Cho’Gall in Cata, be making his full emergence from the ground and breaking free of his prison in full totality.

Could we be getting a few new zones in the next expansion and a few of the more “old god zones” like ulduar/storm peaks and Silithus getting a revamp with the old god buried there bursting out or something similar.

“The Wound” seems to imply that Azeroth is hurt somehow. Could then rumours of sargeras being involved in the final raid/ announced at bliss on as the last boss of the expansion but kept hidden this whole time involve him perhaps throwing his (broken) sword at Azeroth in a final act of insanity hurting Azeroth in the process?

Thoughts....discussion....

IMO, this starts off a series of events that end with Azeroth deciding to become permanently dormant before becoming infected, putting an end to the "end of the universe" path WoW has been on.
No more Titans. No more Burning Legion. No more path for the Void Lords to destroy everything.

Then we're back to killing each other.

[Hctaz]

Yogg-Saron himself says that he is dead (well, going to die at least) and that his blood would continue to corrupt. I mean they could bring them back still through lore magic, but that really goes for any villain.

Yeah and I think that's, ironically, sorta where WoW loses it's magic. There never seems to be any certain death in a game where players can literally bring each other back to life, and the lore has resurrection in it all the time for various reasons. The player character's rez ability doesn't get used for major lore characters, but there are instances in the game where somebody does a quick resurrection spell to bring back somebody recently departed. I think the Old Gods would remain a lot more frightening if they could never truly die without a permanent consequence but only if they were the ONLY characters to be that way. I'm glad that the paladins didn't cast Redemption on Tirion when he died, but there are so many undead characters who just defy everything. The three vampire Princes from Wrath all came back, the entirety of Naxx came back... Darion Mograine came back. It seems like undead characters can just keep resurrecting themselves. It's a little silly. It was scary when the undead were this force that would keep growing every time they killed somebody who was alive, but when they can just keep bringing themselves back it's a little silly. And the Legion suffers from that right now. I'm not scared of them, I'm just like "Yeah, whatever. We'll just keep winning"

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yeah and I think that's, ironically, sorta where WoW loses it's magic. There never seems to be any certain death in a game where players can literally bring each other back to life, and the lore has resurrection in it all the time for various reasons. The player character's rez ability doesn't get used for major lore characters, but there are instances in the game where somebody does a quick resurrection spell to bring back somebody recently departed. I think the Old Gods would remain a lot more frightening if they could never truly die without a permanent consequence but only if they were the ONLY characters to be that way. I'm glad that the paladins didn't cast Redemption on Tirion when he died, but there are so many undead characters who just defy everything. The three vampire Princes from Wrath all came back, the entirety of Naxx came back... Darion Mograine came back. It seems like undead characters can just keep resurrecting themselves. It's a little silly. It was scary when the undead were this force that would keep growing every time they killed somebody who was alive, but when they can just keep bringing themselves back it's a little silly. And the Legion suffers from that right now. I'm not scared of them, I'm just like "Yeah, whatever. We'll just keep winning"

That's just your perception. Something that keeps coming back and defiling your world is pretty scary. The three princes in Wrath obviously just got reanimated and there is precedent for that. Anub'arak got rezzed after we killed him in Azjol-Nerub and we finally ended him in the ToC Raid.

[rcshaggy]

Why Silithus? Wouldn't you want to remove the most blatant visual rip-off from Starcraft that is in game if you were Blizzard?
THAT version of the Aqir aesthetic was a little too Zerg.

Because C'Thun was in Silthus and the city of the desert, Yogg'sarron is in the Northrend area, Y'sharrj or something is in Pandaria, and finally my bro N'Zoth is in the Maelstorm or kinda close below it altogether.

[Daevelian]

Even if you are trying to ignore WoG (which was laughable enough), did you also miss the comic and, if you even want to ignore the comics, the in-game text from the omniscient narrator quest? This, for example?

(I'm not even using our side NPCs' quotes - like the more recent Xal'atath's "It is ironic that the weakest of us may be the ultimate victor. C'Thun, Yogg-Saron, Y'Shaarj, and... well. Only one would remain to consume the world, that was always meant to be" or the older Yogg's salty death speech "The shadow of my corpse will choke this land for all eternity" because they technically can be subjected to being wrong or lies just like Old Gods' worshippers NPCS)

Sorry for lateness, sleep n all that.

Are... are you calling PC PERSPECTIVE quest text as... word of god? Really? Are you really gonna pull that crap after discounting half of my sources for the same gorram reason? You're really gonna cling to an extremely poorly worded question from a guy who says that everything is "in theory" and claim it as your so called "word of god" when it was pretty much directly saying that "Well, yeah, even in your theory the world would not have ended yet because, well, who signs deathwings paychecks? GUIZ WE HAVE A NEW OLD GOD TO REVEAL!"?

And are you REALLY going to use the events from a comic whose entire state of being has been called into question by blizzard themselves as to being canon? And now you're using quotes from known liars as "ermahgerd guiz this undeniable truth from their own mouths!".

Man, no wonder people think Jaina is a dreadlord...

The next you think we killed him, remember this image, from CHRONICLES i might add.



You really expect me to believe we killed that with a couple of swords, fireballs and arrows? Not to mention Yogg is even bigger, being almost as big as Northrend itself. What we did was akin to popping a pimple for him.

[Redroniksre]

Sorry for lateness, sleep n all that.

Are... are you calling PC PERSPECTIVE quest text as... word of god? Really? Are you really gonna pull that crap after discounting half of my sources for the same gorram reason? You're really gonna cling to an extremely poorly worded question from a guy who says that everything is "in theory" and claim it as your so called "word of god" when it was pretty much directly saying that "Well, yeah, even in your theory the world would not have ended yet because, well, who signs deathwings paychecks? GUIZ WE HAVE A NEW OLD GOD TO REVEAL!"?

And are you REALLY going to use the events from a comic whose entire state of being has been called into question by blizzard themselves as to being canon? And now you're using quotes from known liars as "ermahgerd guiz this undeniable truth from their own mouths!".

Man, no wonder people think Jaina is a dreadlord...

The next you think we killed him, remember this image, from CHRONICLES i might add.



You really expect me to believe we killed that with a couple of swords, fireballs and arrows? Not to mention Yogg is even bigger, being almost as big as Northrend itself. What we did was akin to popping a pimple for him.

However we went -inside- C'thun and destroyed his stomach, and went -inside- Yogg-saron and destroyed his brain. We didn't merely do flesh damage to them, we fucked them up internally. That picture is also from the peak of their power, which got beaten back by the Titans and then finally imprisoned. They aren't hiding in those encounters, that is them. I am sure they could revive them or even have the Void Lords just make new ones. Also why would Yoggy lie to us in a language we can't understand?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

We also had the Keepers helping us when fighting Yogg-Saron so that gave us a big edge if you want to look into that. C'thun...well it was Vanilla, lore was there but not like it is Wrath and onward. It's better for non titan beings to kill the Old Gods because well Aman'thul learned first hand why using brute force wouldn't work.

[Daevelian]

However we went -inside- C'thun and destroyed his stomach, and went -inside- Yogg-saron and destroyed his brain. We didn't merely do flesh damage to them, we fucked them up internally. That picture is also from the peak of their power, which got beaten back by the Titans and then finally imprisoned. They aren't hiding in those encounters, that is them. I am sure they could revive them or even have the Void Lords just make new ones. Also why would Yoggy lie to us in a language we can't understand?

Even applying that "going inside" part, C'thuns stomach is pretty damn huge compared to the tip of the iceberg we fight outside.Yogg's brain i could give you though. But as a reminder, they all happen around the middle of the fight. If we truly killed Yogg's brain inside him, he would not be able to function for the final third of the fight.

I know, gameplay mechanics n all that, but if we're going to use them for one aspect there, we cant exclude other aspects.

Why would Yogg lie to us? the entire premise of the old gods is inducing fear and insanity, why wouldn't they lie? You may as well ask why a Nathrezim would lie.

[Auxis]

Datamined voiceover explains it. As a final act of spite, Sargeras stabs Azeroth, and her lifeblood starts to spill out into the Sands of Silithus.

But I bet he was actually aiming to destroy C'Thun's corruption.

Yeah, I like this. Going out as an anti-"hero", by trying to kill C'thun - helping us willingly or begrudgingly because we are the Universe's only chance now.

------------
On another note, why are there no visible Silithid hives on the map of The Wound?
Did the Silithid fall apart after C'thun's death, and as a result, their surface hives deteriorated?
Did Sargeras' strike disintegrate them? If so, there would still be traces of them left behind, surely.

[KrakHed]

Even applying that "going inside" part, C'thuns stomach is pretty damn huge compared to the tip of the iceberg we fight outside.Yogg's brain i could give you though. But as a reminder, they all happen around the middle of the fight. If we truly killed Yogg's brain inside him, he would not be able to function for the final third of the fight.

I know, gameplay mechanics n all that, but if we're going to use them for one aspect there, we cant exclude other aspects.

Why would Yogg lie to us? the entire premise of the old gods is inducing fear and insanity, why wouldn't they lie? You may as well ask why a Nathrezim would lie.

Look, it's clear Old Gods can die. However, death seems to be less permanent for them than most things. If properly drained of their energy, they'll stay dead. However, now that N'zoth is still active and alive while the others are not, he's probably going to prioritize chowing down on his brothers. Only one Old God was ever meant to survive until the end, and I'm more than willing to bet that was because they were meant to consume one another.

[Deleted]

Old gods are very hard to kill, that was the whole point of the sha in MoP.
Yogg and C'thun are like very big Yogg is as big as Northend since he could corrupt the worldtree in Grizzly hills.

So for us to have killed them in Vanilla and WotlK makes no sense.
If we had killed them then we would now had something like sha beings in the old zones.

[Aleksej89]

If sargeras knew he was going to be defeated i bet he would try to fuck up azeroth's world soul both to fuck us over AND to fuck over Void lords who know that, without Sargy, all the world souls can be claimed by them in due time.

So sargy probably wanted to fuck over both void lords and us by killing azeroths soul.