Speculation - Silithus: The Wound

[Qualia]

So for us to have killed them in Vanilla and WotlK makes no sense.
If we had killed them then we would now had something like sha beings in the old zones.

We do, though? Saronite Vapors spawning Faceless Echoes seems to be a normal event in Ulduar now. They are pretty much Yogg's version of the Sha. Probably not that bad because we didn't liter their bodies all over the land like Aman'thul did.

Are... are you calling PC PERSPECTIVE quest text as... word of god? Really? Are you really gonna pull that crap after discounting half of my sources for the same gorram reason? You're really gonna cling to an extremely poorly worded question from a guy who says that everything is "in theory" and claim it as your so called "word of god" when it was pretty much directly saying that "Well, yeah, even in your theory the world would not have ended yet because, well, who signs deathwings paychecks? GUIZ WE HAVE A NEW OLD GOD TO REVEAL!"?

I didn't call that Word of God. I called that the description of the omniscient narrator (not to be confused with the characters being narrators) - because that's what it was. The omniscient narrator isn't the author, but would be the most reliable one right after the author. Additionally, it's not the player character perspective either. Our characters didn't say anything, the omniscient narrator described the it as stated in the quest text (unless you are saying that our characters have this weird habit of referring to ourselves as "you").

And no, they didn't say anything in the line of "Well, yeah, even in your theory the world would not have ended yet because, well, who signs deathwings paychecks? GUIZ WE HAVE A NEW OLD GOD TO REVEAL!". I'm not even sure if you are trying to be stubborn, or you really have problem with comprehension. They and people know that there is at least another Old God for year(s) by then. If you checked my link with a cut a few seconds earlier than the other link, the guy was already asking about the new Old God's name. If they meant to say what you said, they'd have told him "Look, you just mentioned another Old God, that's why the theory isn't applied yet". But no, they didn't. They answered that the Cataclysm was caused by the Old Gods. If they were referring to the new Old God (aka N'Zoth), they would have said Old God, not Old Gods. It's clear that they were answering the question of why we haven't seen any catastrophic event even after two Old Gods were down.

And are you REALLY going to use the events from a comic whose entire state of being has been called into question by blizzard themselves as to being canon? And now you're using quotes from known liars as "ermahgerd guiz this undeniable truth from their own mouths!".

Are you actually calling Blizzard developers liars? Are you, by any chance, Rainforest? Whatever Blizzard say is the truth. That's how Word of God is - read up on it in this article (click) in case you are clueless of what WoG means, because you are appearing so. I've said it before: it's not that whatever Blizzard say must be correct, it's that whatever they say BECOME canon / the truth when they say it until they refute it. In an exaggerated example for you to make it easier to understand: Blizzard might "lie" and tell us that Khadgar is actually Sargeras' father, and it will be canon that Khadgar is Sargeras' father. No matter how ridiculous it sounds or everything else in game up until now stated otherwise. The lore have to reshape itself to fit Word of God, not the other way around.

If you want to complain about Blizzard's devs, be my guest. Just keep in mind that regardless of what you think about those "liars", as per your words, their words are canon by default. The comics' canonical status isn't even "called into question" - they said that it IS still canon, just Me'dan being Guardian isn't. Don't state a fan's opinion you read from Wowwiki as fact, because it isn't.

You really expect me to believe we killed that with a couple of swords, fireballs and arrows? Not to mention Yogg is even bigger, being almost as big as Northrend itself. What we did was akin to popping a pimple for him.

Yes, the same way how tiny parasites, or micro-sized bacteria can kill humans. We did the equivalent of destroying a brain / head, and thus - dead Old Gods.

Man, no wonder people think Jaina is a dreadlord...

Yeah, the same people who thought C'Thun and Yogg are still alive, apparently. One who either didn't know the lore that well, or prefer their headcanons over in-game information, out-of-game canon information, AND WoG. Sometimes both.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Old gods are very hard to kill, that was the whole point of the sha in MoP.
Yogg and C'thun are like very big Yogg is as big as Northend since he could corrupt the worldtree in Grizzly hills.

So for us to have killed them in Vanilla and WotlK makes no sense.
If we had killed them then we would now had something like sha beings in the old zones.

Y'shaarj was unique due to the fact he got picked up from Aman'thul killing him but leaving a gaping wound on Azeroth and the evil left behind(The Sha). If anything doesn't make sense, C'thun's death since it was just us fighting him. With Yogg we had the Keepers help so that makes sense.

[Daevelian]

We do, though? Saronite Vapors spawning Faceless Echoes seems to be a normal event in Ulduar now. They are pretty much Yogg's version of the Sha. Probably not that bad because we didn't liter their bodies all over the land like Aman'thul did.



I didn't call that Word of God. I called that the description of the omniscient narrator (not to be confused with the characters being narrators) - because that's what it was. The omniscient narrator isn't the author, but would be the most reliable one right after the author. Additionally, it's not the player character perspective either. Our characters didn't say anything, the omniscient narrator described the it as stated in the quest text (unless you are saying that our characters have this weird habit of referring to ourselves as "you").

And no, they didn't say anything in the line of "Well, yeah, even in your theory the world would not have ended yet because, well, who signs deathwings paychecks? GUIZ WE HAVE A NEW OLD GOD TO REVEAL!". I'm not even sure if you are trying to be stubborn, or you really have problem with comprehension. They and people know that there is at least another Old God for year(s) by then. If you checked my link with a cut a few seconds earlier than the other link, the guy was already asking about the new Old God's name. If they meant to say what you said, they'd have told him "Look, you just mentioned another Old God, that's why the theory isn't applied yet". But no, they didn't. They answered that the Cataclysm was caused by the Old Gods. If they were referring to the new Old God (aka N'Zoth), they would have said Old God, not Old Gods. It's clear that they were answering the question of why we haven't seen any catastrophic event even after two Old Gods were down.


Are you actually calling Blizzard developers liars? Are you, by any chance, Rainforest? Whatever Blizzard say is the truth. That's how Word of God is - read up on it in this article (click) in case you are clueless of what WoG means, because you are appearing so. I've said it before: it's not that whatever Blizzard say must be correct, it's that whatever they say BECOME canon / the truth when they say it until they refute it. In an exaggerated example for you to make it easier to understand: Blizzard might "lie" and tell us that Khadgar is actually Sargeras' father, and it will be canon that Khadgar is Sargeras' father. No matter how ridiculous it sounds or everything else in game up until now stated otherwise. The lore have to reshape itself to fit Word of God, not the other way around.

If you want to complain about Blizzard's devs, be my guest. Just keep in mind that regardless of what you think about those "liars", as per your words, their words are canon by default. The comics' canonical status isn't even "called into question" - they said that it IS still canon, just Me'dan being Guardian isn't. Don't state a fan's opinion you read from Wowwiki as fact, because it isn't.


Yes, the same way how tiny parasites, or micro-sized bacteria can kill humans. We did the equivalent of destroying a brain / head, and thus - died Old God.



Yeah, the same people who thought C'Thun and Yogg are still alive, apparently. One who either didn't know the lore that well, or prefer their headcanons over in-game information, out-of-game canon information, AND WoG. Sometimes both.

Again, you're using a dev answering a question about a theory with another theory as word of god...

so my question to you is this. IF it turns out that C'thun is in fact back, will you happily eat your words?

Edit: not gonna make paragraph long arguments, i'm leaving for work in 15 mins.

[Volardelis]

No, he shouldn't be. That'a the canonical story. We stopped them from poking their little avatars out of the ground basically. If we killed them then the planet would have died with their deaths.

The reason why Y'shaarj's death caused so much pain to Azeroth was the way he was killed. If you yank a weed out of the ground, roots and all, you will leave a hole in the ground. Now imagine that on a near planet sized scale.

C'thun and Yogg may or may not be dead. Cho'gall attempted to resurrect C'thun in the Med'an comics (which is still canon). In a translated piece of yoggs death dialogue, it seems to imply that he is dead as well.

However, blizzard can change anything. We have seen that already in 7.3 in relation to the chronicles.

[Qualia]

Again, you're using a dev answering a question about a theory with another theory as word of god...

so my question to you is this. IF it turns out that C'thun is in fact back, will you happily eat your words?

If C'Thun is in fact *ALIVE*, I'll happily adjust my knowledge of lore, as I have said before in this very thread. It's not the first time Blizzard changed / updated / retconned their lore, and it's just fair that we have to adjust accordingly. I used to say that the Mogu slain Y'Shaarj during MoP as their tablets retold that stories, but with Chronicle release, I updated my lore knowledge properly that Aman'thul did it, and the Mogu probably was just boasting. You don't have to worry, I don't really care much that I must be the right. I do care, however, when people spread misinformation.

Keep in mind that, however, being alive and being back are different things. You are, intentionally or not, twisting the argument again. I said that C'Thun and Yogg are dead. You are saying that they aren't. I never said that they won't ever be back. Resurrection is a normal thing in WoW-verse applied for everything but demons that died in the Nether - in fact, you can see my post stating that it's very possible for Azeroth's blood to resurrect an Old God (C'Thun in particular) if Me'dan's power or the Vale's power was sufficient for that.

And no, the devs didn't answer with a theory. They answered with facts. Devs' word IS Word of God by default, did you even read the article I linked?

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

After seeing what Argus the Unmaker could do. Nothing else interests me anymore. There won't ever be a boss that's more powerful than him. The stab is alright not really that impressive for Sargeras. It's just one zone and it didn't even destroy the entire zone. Either the other planets were much smaller or Sargeras ain't as big and powerful as we thought. Argus the Unmaker is the real deal.

[Volardelis]

After seeing what Argus the Unmaker could do. Nothing else interests me anymore. There won't ever be a boss that's more powerful than him. The stab is alright not really that impressive for Sargeras. It's just one zone and it didn't even destroy the entire zone. Either the other planets were much smaller or Sargeras ain't as big and powerful as we thought. Argus the Unmaker is the real deal.

The way I see it, is that Sargeras attempts to corrupt Azeroth via fel magic (after all, he is creating a dark pantheon, and he wants Azeroth to be apart of that as well, based on the Specter of Sargeras weapon lore). Before he can do that, the other titans and Illidan imprison Sargeras. As he is about to be locked away, Sargeras attempts to kill Azeroth but only manages a "flesh wound", as he wants to prevent the void lords from getting their hands on a world soul. Sargeras knows that Azeroth does have old gods, and he knows what they are for.

Although the hole is big enough to cause some concern.

[Qualia]

It's just one zone and it didn't even destroy the entire zone. Either the other planets were much smaller or Sargeras ain't as big and powerful as we thought.

Or maybe we (well, the Pantheon and Illidan) will stop him when Sargeras just barely get the tip in, before he manages to push his thing further inside Azeroth or starts moving it around

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Because C'Thun was in Silthus and the city of the desert, Yogg'sarron is in the Northrend area, Y'sharrj or something is in Pandaria, and finally my bro N'Zoth is in the Maelstorm or kinda close below it altogether.

N'zoth's territory and pinpoint location has been depicted on Ancient Kalimdor in Chroincles Vol.
i imgur com/HRci6yl jpg
wow gamepedia com/File:Black_Empire_Kalimdor jpeg

[Saverem]

Isn't it obvious? The wound is in a shape of a diamond, the exact same shape a stab with a medieval style sword or spear would leave.

Guessing Sargera's would is from him chucking a giant fucking sword or spear made of Fel or something right down there into Azeroth. I'm guessing it's made of Fel because the item isn't there. If it was steel or something, then the sword/spear would still be there in the zone, sticking out. (which let's be real, would be the coolest thing in all of WoW)

- - - Updated - - -

Either the other planets were much smaller or Sargeras ain't as big and powerful as we thought. Argus the Unmaker is the real deal.

Well Argus looks to be like around 1/3 the size of Azeroth (Argus from Azeroth is like at least 3X smaller than Azeroth from Argus). So it could have been a smaller planet like that.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Isn't it obvious? The wound is in a shape of a diamond, the exact same shape a stab with a medieval style sword or spear would leave.

Guessing Sargera's would is from him chucking a giant fucking sword or spear made of Fel or something right down there into Azeroth. I'm guessing it's made of Fel because the item isn't there. If it was steel or something, then the sword/spear would still be there in the zone, sticking out. (which let's be real, would be the coolest thing in all of WoW)

Agreed, it's surprisingly obvious. But hey, that's datamining.

But don't worry, judging by the texture of the "hole," the Blade of Sargeras will be in the ground. It's a repeating texture that will be covered, it's not a detailed crevasse.

[nothingsjim]

Isn't it obvious? The wound is in a shape of a diamond, the exact same shape a stab with a medieval style sword or spear would leave.

Guessing Sargera's would is from him chucking a giant fucking sword or spear made of Fel or something right down there into Azeroth. I'm guessing it's made of Fel because the item isn't there. If it was steel or something, then the sword/spear would still be there in the zone, sticking out. (which let's be real, would be the coolest thing in all of WoW).

Now that, would be awesome. A broken, jagged edge stuck in Silithus we need to remove first before we can heal the wound. It will be like Master's Glaive in Darkshore, except like 1000 times bigger.

And I actually expect a physical sword instead of Fel sword. There doesn't seem to be much Fel corruption in the region, which, if it's stuck by Sargy's Fel power, should be all over the place.

[Aquamonkey]

I used to say that the Mogu slain Y'Shaarj during MoP as their tablets retold that stories,

You weren't the only one.

Why do the mantid hate the sha, but serve Y'Shaarj, while the mogu fought the old gods, but used the sha as weapons?
Sha is aimless breath of a dead god. Klaxxi worship the god, hate the breath. Mogu kill the god, use the breath. (DaveKosak)

[dv4]

I think it was his way of just trying to destroy Azeroth in one blow but instead it will break out the old gods

[huth]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Yeah...the whole Titan, Gods, whatnot lore is just too outrageous to take seriously (I tried to read up on this...it is just baffling) . So the guy is being with powers beyond belief, yet the mind and logic of a sandbox bully, who needs to show up and chat with us, instead of destroying Azeroth behind our back. And I guess the whole "imprison" thingy is done with a Macguffin that we have found meanwhile or Illidan whips out. Oh well....

Mostly no. He doesn't actually want Azeroth destroyed, the wound is more a "if i can't get it, nobody can!" last ditch effort. And you missed the part where the other Titans are the ones doing the imprisoning. They also don't count as MacGuffins since they directly interfere in the previous boss fight. At worst, they're swordsmen of plot advancement.

[WolfRider]

I speculate this:
While we're fighting Argus the Unmaker we see Sargeras manifesting over Azeroth and trying to do the same ritual as he did to Argus: make her suffer enough to bound her to his will so he could use Azeroth as a bigger forge for his Legion. We use Argus' soul and the Pantheon to "summon" or draw Sargeras into the Seat of the Pantheon before its too late. We succeed but in a last act of wrath, Sargeras scrapes the planet with his sword.

Illidan gives us the crystal to deliver at the Mount Hyjal, holding a message for us, Malfurion and Tyrande.
In the meantime, Kadghar sends us to Silithus to witness the wound left by Sargeras.

I think we've been sent by Illidan to Mount Hyjal for a good reason. He may have left and hidden flasks from the Well of Eternity.
We might have to drop them into the wound and use the power of our weapons to heal the wound. In the process, Azeroth grants us with the power contained in the artifacts and allows us to hear Her.

[Deleted]

Can someone help me understand a thing or two? For one, what happens exactly in the raid with Argus the Unmaker? Do we kill him? How does he manifest, technically being the very planet and all? Could someone who knows more than me tell me that?

Also, do we know anything about the state of the factions right after the raid? Anything about the Windrunner sisters, have they met yet, as far as we know?

Anyway, it seems clear to me Sargeras wasn't trying to help us or anything, he never even considered the option of extracting the infection from planets before, he just destroys the planet and dormant Titan Soul, so I imagine he was just trying to annihilate Azeroth too.

[huth]

Can someone help me understand a thing or two? For one, what happens exactly in the raid with Argus the Unmaker? Do we kill him? How does he manifest, technically being the very planet and all? Could someone who knows more than me tell me that?

The last boss isn't fought on Argus but at the Seat of the Pantheon, i.e. Titan HQ.

He did not want her dead but if he is to be imprisoned, he'd rather see Azeroth killed than let her fall to the Void. From Sargeras' perspective what he does is actually perfectly rational and not spiteful.

Point being it's perfectly sensible he doesn't backstab her while we're busy bashing Argus.

[flan1337]

Has anyone mentioned what Kadgar says? That anyone and everyone seeking power will go to this scar? Who might we see?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Yeah...the whole Titan, Gods, whatnot lore is just too outrageous to take seriously (I tried to read up on this...it is just baffling) . So the guy is being with powers beyond belief, yet the mind and logic of a sandbox bully, who needs to show up and chat with us, instead of destroying Azeroth behind our back. And I guess the whole "imprison" thingy is done with a Macguffin that we have found meanwhile or Illidan whips out. Oh well....

The imprisonment is the only way to sensibly dealing with Sargeras without it getting absurd. I mean if you're powerful and about to be imprisoned, causing some damage is a resonable reaction.